Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[mezzanine]

^^ just be careful, though. As I've said before, DMJ does get *his* message out. For one of his letters to get a response from Ken Hardie so fast tells me how effective translink thinks he is.

He repeats his stats so frequently and everywhere (he is 'evil eye' on the georgia straight and 'grumpy' on the tyee, and zweisystem on other places. he even apologized on stephen ree's blog once as he posted under 'taxpayer', which he admitted he used when posting to US blogs. (? - but i am serious, i can't find the blog entry, though)

PS, looked at ken hardies' response. transit mode share has actually increased to 16.5% in metro vancouver as per stats can....

http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recenseme...0&G5=0&SC=1&RPP=100&SR=101&SO=0&O=A&D1=1

[nname]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Why do people keep insisting upon the damn Arbutus corridor? Sure, the tracks are there, but there's no other reason to put transit there.

People keep forgetting that only 30% of the ridership of current Broadway route come from UBC, and less than 10% from 98/C-Line. The rest (> 60%) come from somewhere along Broadway, and this will only become larger once the extension is built. In other word, central Broadway is a much larger destination than UBC. So going away from Broadway meaning that you only build to server less than 40% of the potential ridership at much much more than 40% of the cost. Definitely not worth it.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Why do people keep insisting upon the damn Arbutus corridor? Sure, the tracks are there, but there's no other reason to put transit there.

Because it's almost the only line where we can truly get a streetcar for maybe the $15 mil/km that zweisystem claims (as well as the Interurban tracks through Surrey and Langley). It would be more of a local service system with stops every 4 blocks or so (Broadway, 13th, 17th, 21st, 25th, etc.) and replace the 16 bus. Also if they ever wanted to build the South Fraser Express Commuter Rail Line, Arbutus Corridor is really the only route downtown.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Because it's almost the only line where we can truly get a streetcar for maybe the $15 mil/km that zweisystem claims (as well as the Interurban tracks through Surrey and Langley). It would be more of a local service system with stops every 4 blocks or so (Broadway, 13th, 17th, 21st, 25th, etc.) and replace the 16 bus. Also if they ever wanted to build the South Fraser Express Commuter Rail Line, Arbutus Corridor is really the only route downtown.

Except that it doesn't go downtown. It would need a bridge or tunnel for that... or go along the tram line to false creek flats.

[BCPhil]

Canada Line stations show up on Google maps now.

Streetview is also there on almost every street.

Although the bus loop is still missing at Bridgeport, and so is the Golden Ears Bridge.

[trofirhen]

Surely, if a number of readers claim, the main reason for building the Arbutus Corridor is to put in a streetcar to replace the Number 16 Bus, then why not just keep the bus, and to hell with an expensive, local streetcar.

I think the Arbutus Corridor has potential for more than that.
For precisely what, I don't know yet, but surely an an integral part of a larger line with greater range and longer reach.

If it means putting a tunnel into downtown, so be it (in my opinion).
They're going to put in a bored tunnel on the Evergreen Line, have bored tunnelling on the Canada Line, and may or may not get tunnelling (either cut or bored) on the UBC Extension.

The Arbutus corridor has a steep curve and a hill in it where it rises up to Kerrisdale. That's one problem. That might require a bored (dirty word) tunnel. But it is one of the few rights-of-way that offer themselves to being exploited for bigger and more farsighted projects than a local streetcar to replace a local bus.

[DKaz]

The existing rail corridor snakes up the big hill, no tunnel required.

We could ask why build a streetcar around False Creek to Waterfront when we could run buses instead?

Streetcars do make sense on certain corridors to attract ridership. There is huge potential surrounding the Arbutus corridor, even more so than Cambie imo. It can densify itself while maintaining its quiet, charming atmosphere, increase its pedestrian friendliness, and be complimented by a parallel streetcar service. The trams would run faster being segregated from traffic, there would be fewer stops than the 16 which might be objectionable but strategically placed would not be a problem. People are more likely to walk a couple extra blocks to catch a tram than a bus. City of Vancouver envisions extended the streetcar up Arbutus, and Burrard St Bridge can handle a rail only lower deck if required. The huge marine clearances is almost at the point of no longer being required since all the industries are being replaced by condos.

[BCPhil]

The nice thing about using the Arbutus corridor for LRT/Tram is that after 16th, the tracks only cross about 10 streets. It's a mostly segregated, private, ROW. No need to alter configuration on major roads or built expensive infrastructure. And it continues all the way to Marine Drive station on the C-Line and can go further along the South edge of Vancouver to New Westminster on an existing right of way.

Kerrisdale is one of the highest density locations in Vancouver outside of downtown. It is well built up, expands a bit once in a while, and it's right on the corridor. The 16 bus is quite frequent and in peak hours is packed. Running more buses is expensive and subject to bad traffic and really slow down on Broadway, and especially at the Broadway/Granville intersection. A tram through Kerrisdale would be quite popular, and could ferry more people with fewer trains(operators).

The tricky part is where does it go when it reaches Broadway?

There would be a good connection at the UBC Millennium line extension, but when the ROW gets close to Granville it heads to Granville Island. Most people will want to head into downtown. Should they switch to M-Line then to C-Line?

The tram could go onto the Granville street bridge. At Fir, the ROW is only 1 block away from getting onto the bridge via 6th or 5th. On the bridge, the Inside lanes are usually the least used, and fastest and the tram could easily mix with traffic and roll onto Granville street. From there the train could go straight down Granville all the way to meet up with the downtown streetcar at Waterfront station.

The other option is to leave it running in the existing ROW and allow people to transfer at Olympic Village Station to the C-Line (saving the transfer to the M-line) or keep riding around through Gastown (also an increasingly popular destination/source) to Waterfront. With the segregated ROW getting to the Olympic Village station would be pretty quick.

But I think a good future goal would be to have another Subway route into downtown from the West side of town.

I would like to see a line (either seperate or a branch) connecting the M-Line extension Arbutus station, head north under Arbutus connecting 4th and Cronwall in Kits, go under English bay, under the West End and Coal Harbour and terminate at Waterfront Station. A fast direct connection from Downtown to the West End and Kits and transfer to UBC would be HUGELY popular.

[officedweller]

Good point about connecting to Olympic Village Station.

I've generally thought that an ROW that follows the existing Arbutus tracks to 5th or 6th (inlcuding a level or trenched crossing of Burrard St.), then diving underground in the bus loop (at the SW end of the Granville Bridge) and emerging in the inside lanes of the Granville Bridge would work best (that is, involve little tunnelling and maximize use of the existing ROW).

Depending on the type of service implemented, either would work. If it is implemented as a diesel multiple unit on single track with passing lanes (i.e. 15 minute service) - commuter train style - then the ROW to Olympic Village Station would work best. If it's electrified and with hgher frequencies - you can put it on Granville St. downtown.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Canada Line stations show up on Google maps now.

Streetview is also there on almost every street.

Although the bus loop is still missing at Bridgeport, and so is the Golden Ears Bridge.

I should be on my bike in the street view on King George Highway in Surrey but I guess they took it on 2 different days as one of the frames shows a cloudy day as the rest are sunny in that stretch, too bad!

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The existing rail corridor snakes up the big hill, no tunnel required.

We could ask why build a streetcar around False Creek to Waterfront when we could run buses instead?

Streetcars do make sense on certain corridors to attract ridership. There is huge potential surrounding the Arbutus corridor, even more so than Cambie imo. It can densify itself while maintaining its quiet, charming atmosphere, increase its pedestrian friendliness, and be complimented by a parallel streetcar service. The trams would run faster being segregated from traffic, there would be fewer stops than the 16 which might be objectionable but strategically placed would not be a problem. People are more likely to walk a couple extra blocks to catch a tram than a bus. City of Vancouver envisions extended the streetcar up Arbutus, and Burrard St Bridge can handle a rail only lower deck if required. The huge marine clearances is almost at the point of no longer being required since all the industries are being replaced by condos.

Originally Posted by BCPhil

The nice thing about using the Arbutus corridor for LRT/Tram is that after 16th, the tracks only cross about 10 streets. It's a mostly segregated, private, ROW. No need to alter configuration on major roads or built expensive infrastructure. And it continues all the way to Marine Drive station on the C-Line and can go further along the South edge of Vancouver to New Westminster on an existing right of way.

Kerrisdale is one of the highest density locations in Vancouver outside of downtown. It is well built up, expands a bit once in a while, and it's right on the corridor. The 16 bus is quite frequent and in peak hours is packed. Running more buses is expensive and subject to bad traffic and really slow down on Broadway, and especially at the Broadway/Granville intersection. A tram through Kerrisdale would be quite popular, and could ferry more people with fewer trains(operators).

The tricky part is where does it go when it reaches Broadway?

There would be a good connection at the UBC Millennium line extension, but when the ROW gets close to Granville it heads to Granville Island. Most people will want to head into downtown. Should they switch to M-Line then to C-Line?

The tram could go onto the Granville street bridge. At Fir, the ROW is only 1 block away from getting onto the bridge via 6th or 5th. On the bridge, the Inside lanes are usually the least used, and fastest and the tram could easily mix with traffic and roll onto Granville street. From there the train could go straight down Granville all the way to meet up with the downtown streetcar at Waterfront station.

The other option is to leave it running in the existing ROW and allow people to transfer at Olympic Village Station to the C-Line (saving the transfer to the M-line) or keep riding around through Gastown (also an increasingly popular destination/source) to Waterfront. With the segregated ROW getting to the Olympic Village station would be pretty quick.

But I think a good future goal would be to have another Subway route into downtown from the West side of town.

I would like to see a line (either seperate or a branch) connecting the M-Line extension Arbutus station, head north under Arbutus connecting 4th and Cronwall in Kits, go under English bay, under the West End and Coal Harbour and terminate at Waterfront Station. A fast direct connection from Downtown to the West End and Kits and transfer to UBC would be HUGELY popular.

Hmmmmmm. Good points here.

[mr.x]

Passenger info displays installed at 29 stops on Main Street are now in service!

The displays are part of the Main Street Urban Showcase Project, a transportation improvement program launched in 2004. The project is jointly funded by Transport Canada (through the Urban Transportation Showcase Program), TransLink and the City of Vancouver.

• Video Link

[Waders]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Passenger info displays installed at 29 stops on Main Street are now in service!

The displays are part of the Main Street Urban Showcase Project, a transportation improvement program launched in 2004. The project is jointly funded by Transport Canada (through the Urban Transportation Showcase Program), TransLink and the City of Vancouver.

• Video Link

Cool!

[Dave2]

Speaking of banning cellphones.... I was on a train last week with a loud women on a cell next to me.... An announcement started: "This is Skytrain control, we regret to inform you "BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH" on the tracks "BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH" service will be "BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH"..... jezzus woman, can't you shut the **** up while the announcment is on?

[cabotp]

All I can say is there is a reason I listen to my ipod when I'm on transit. It successfully blocks out all of the stupid noises people make.

[mr.x]

this is too awesome

• Video Link

[deasine]

I didn't know SF MUNI was part of Metro Vancouver's transit system

[SFUVancouver]

It's a fight to even get off MUNI buses! Despite the gigantic stop signs on the doors and messages saying to board at the front of the bus I found that as soon as the doors opened there would be a rush of half a dozen people onto the bus as passengers tried to disembark. Picture SkyTrain with bus sized doors and stairs (which seem weird now in buses since we switched to a low-floor fleet).

[deasine]

Funny thing is that in the video, the MUNI staff just STAND there as if nothing's happening. Vancouver bus drivers usually do something. I love how the guy in the video just makes it sound like it's normal to see these things happen on buses. Then again, we have our share of problems too.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by mr.x

this is too awesome

• Video Link

The Chinese lady's Cantonese has a horrible accent. OMG, there's another Chinese man (supporting the lady) encouraging her to hit the Black lady.


Anyways, this argument on HK's MTR is even more pointless. Unfortunately, it's in Cantonese. But basically the argument goes this way: The couple sitting has been criticized by a man standing in front of them for obstructing the corridor by their feet since it's crowded on the train. But the couple then yelled at the other guy in the line of "so what? I don't care, I do what I like with our feet. It's you who bumped into us. If the train is so crowded then don't fucking move. And why are you standing in front of us?"

• Video Link


Bonus: Sorry, this is not too related to transit. Have to post it, it's too crazy (basically, the guy was stopped and probably fined for throwing a cigarette on the ground. Then that guy started swearing like crazy for the entire video):

• Video Link