Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by DKaz

SFU students from CoV use Millennium Line. I'm talking about those coming in from Burnaby, Richmond (via 410/22nd St Station), New Westminster, Surrey. Trains clear at Production Way-University from both directions and fills up in either direction in the afternoon.

Even from Joyce, it is faster to take the M-line: Joyce->Columbia->Production way to get to SFU. And from Metrotown station the times on the direct bus or taking Skytrain around the long way are almost the same.

And travel from Lougheed to Metrotown is quite popular with the young folk.

The only way an mline shuttle could be convenient is if it stopped at both Columbia platforms (entered the Westbound, stopped, exit west, re-enter the Eastbound platform, stop, then exit onto the Mline) and was as (if not more) frequent than the current M-Line.

Then people wouldn't have to change platforms at Columbia coming from/going to Surrey, they could get on off at the same one.

But I would really worry about the way that would impact other trains entering and leaving Columbia. It's a catch 22, the only way a shuttle could be convenient is if it was frequent, and if it was frequent it could affect other service.

[SpongeG]

according to my postcard there are 5 stations, its above ground tunnelled ground level and than elevated for the last 2 stops

you have until november 13th to have your say

[twoNeurons]

Another problem with interlining in Toronto is that the trains aren't as precise. They're driver controlled, so he can hold the train up etc. SkyTrain is fully automated, so that's less of an issue. The system knows where every train is at at all times.

I think Columbia should be reworked to be a centre platform personally. when they added the Millennium line, I'm sure they could have done it. There's a building there and it's tight but doable.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

^^Even though i assume this is a winnipeg newspaper that you are talking about, i bet you $10000000000 that it is DMJ. I've seen him add comments to the honolulu local media about the overall evilness of skytrain.

If you see 'skytrain' 'ridership' ' light metro' 'gestapo', it is DMJ....

^^^ one major advantage of the business case for skytrain for PMC is that there is less of a need for building a new OMC, as edmonds could be used. i am unsure if this means an additional storage area, also.

(oringinal skytrain vs LRT vs rapidbus assessment planning docs below, circa 2004.)
http://www.llbc.leg.bc.ca/public/PubDocs/bcdocs/368601/Attach2.pdf

Actually, I'm visiting Vancouver right now -- and I saw it in a paper here.
Winnipeg is just starting to build a busway...

[deasine]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Another problem with interlining in Toronto is that the trains aren't as precise. They're driver controlled, so he can hold the train up etc. SkyTrain is fully automated, so that's less of an issue. The system knows where every train is at at all times.

I think Columbia should be reworked to be a centre platform personally. when they added the Millennium line, I'm sure they could have done it. There's a building there and it's tight but doable.

Toronto also had a problem where trains arrived at different platforms so no one knew where the trains went. We wouldn't have that issue at Columbia, but nevertheless, it wouldn't work out too smoothly. If something like that were to happen, I highly advise TransLink to hire additional SkyTrain attendants stationed just at Columbia to make sure people aren't going on the wrong train. This is where the third platform might've come handy...

[Geof]

Originally Posted by kylemacmac

After the Evergreen extension is built, I bet the skytrain system routes will be:

VCC-Douglas (Evergreen Millennium)
Waterfront - King George (Expo)

with either a dedicated shuttle running between Lougheed and Columbia, or every 2nd or 3rd train on the expo line going up to Lougheed.

Two transfers could be a real problem. I believe one of the main purposes of the Evergreen Line is to provide a good transit connection between the tri-cities and Surrey. There appear to be many more trips between Surrey and Coquitlam than between Surrey and Vancouver:



(Image from TransLink report referenced here)

I suspect this understates the situation. The tri-cities are basically bedroom communities, so I would think there is actually more commuter traffic going in the other direction.

I have noticed a tendency on this group to overvalue Vancouver as a destination. I think this reflects the people who participate on this forum. Although Vancouver is a more exciting city than, say, Burnaby or Coquitlam, this applies mostly to young singles. In practice many people seldom visit. Middle class families are living in places like Coquitlam and Surrey that are more affordable and offer better facilities for families (playgrounds, parks, and so on - if you have a 4 year-old, Lafarge Park at Coquitlam Centre is likely a more attractive destination than the seawall). New employment tends to be outside Vancouver, e.g. in Richmond, Burnaby, or Surrey. Shopping will tend to be local or as close to local as possible; again, Vancouver is probably not a destination for most trips. Finally, many young people, especially those dependent on transit, simply cannot afford Vancouver (or UBC for that matter), so don't visit so often either.

[Axe]

Does anyone know what the spur track is for after VCC? You can see it on google maps. Maybe future OMC?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Axe

Does anyone know what the spur track is for after VCC? You can see it on google maps. Maybe future OMC?

Original extension of the Millennium Line Phase 2 to Cambie/Granville/or Arbutus.

[Axe]

Originally Posted by deasine

Original extension of the Millennium Line Phase 2 to Cambie/Granville/or Arbutus.

but there is three tracks......not just two.

[mr.x]

^ storage.

[BCPhil]

Yeah, they fill up that end with trains at night, so they are ready to go VCC -> Waterfront during the morning peak.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Geof

I have noticed a tendency on this group to overvalue Vancouver as a destination.

Conversely, are you overvaluing Surrey as a destination? The Hwy 1 traffic diagram is very interesting, but it doesn't reflect the same commuters that will be eligible for take transit via Expo-to-Evergreen. Most of those commuters taking Port Mann to Tri-Cities are coming from places far to the east of the SkyTrain network.

What percentage of travellers currently commute from Lougheed to Columbia and then switch trains to Surrey (or vice versa)? I haven't witnessed what Columbia is like during commuter hours, is it full of people taking this route today? If this route is a priority then there should be evidence of it today.

[cabotp]

I've been at columbia in the past standing on the EB platform. Watching to see how people move

I do see quite a few people who get off on the WB platform walk under and catch a train for the E-line or M-line. I would say more people do catch the E-line vs the M-line. But the M-line train can get become at least 1/2 - 3/4 full from people waiting to catch it. Of course I'd venture to guess that 70% of those people get off at either Braid or Lougheed. Most likely headed by bus for the Tri-Cities.

[Zassk]

^In that case, perhaps we just need to extend the "short run shuttle" that was discussed earlier. It could continue after Columbia into Surrey, or it could continue after Lougheed into Coquitlam, in both cases by using track switches. So the lines would look like this:

Millennium: VCC-Clark - Douglas College
Shuttle: either Douglas College - Columbia OR Lougheed - King George
Expo: Waterfront - King George

Then you would be able to get from any station to any other station with one transfer (disregarding the Canada Line for now).

[twoNeurons]

Without enhancements at Columbia, those routes are difficult.

As for Lougheed, half the train gets off there ( coming from Braid ), then half the train gets back on. It's a very busy station.

If school's in and it's during the school rush hours, 25-50% get on/off at Production Way too. Brentwood and Gilmore are also busy.

Braid is busy as it's the fastest route from Coquitlam and Maple Ridge, but it's all bus traffic. Lots of full buses pull up there. This could change if North road gets its dedicated transit ramps... as some buses will go there instead.

After the PMB opens, I suspect a direct Surrey - Coquitlam Centre and Surrey - Lougheed Bus will be started which will take pressure off the Columbia transfer. That will be a popular bus route.

[SpongeG]

i used to use lougheed to columbia for a few years - i would say it was well used when i used it for people transferring to get to surrey - a good chunk of people got off at columbia and transferred there - same going home you would see a surrey train arrive a bunch of people get off and they would come over to the other platform to go back to lougheed or braid whatever

[tybuilding]

There are a lot of SFU students coming from Surrey. I do notice a lot get off at Columbia. In the morning a train with standing peopl eon the expo line coming from Surrey turns into a train with a few seats available, roughly 1/5th get off I think.

Originally Posted by cabotp

I've been at columbia in the past standing on the EB platform. Watching to see how people move

I do see quite a few people who get off on the WB platform walk under and catch a train for the E-line or M-line. I would say more people do catch the E-line vs the M-line. But the M-line train can get become at least 1/2 - 3/4 full from people waiting to catch it. Of course I'd venture to guess that 70% of those people get off at either Braid or Lougheed. Most likely headed by bus for the Tri-Cities.

[kylemacmac]

Originally Posted by Geof

(Image from TransLink report referenced here)

Yeah, but this is vehicle traffic on the Port Mann Bridge, which doesn't exactly correlate to transit riders, or potential transit riders from Surrey to Coquitlam. The skytrain line(s) from Surrey to Coquitlam take a much more circuitous route to the West. Also this was before the Golden Ears Bridge.

The point about non-Vancouver destinations being important is valid, but either way, I think a one seat ride is over-rated. One seat rides are nice, but you can have a much better transit system (that serves multiple destinations) if people just transfer a bit more. With fast connections and frequent service, everyone can win, even if only just a little bit.

[kylemacmac]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

There are a lot of SFU students coming from Surrey. I do notice a lot get off at Columbia. In the morning a train with standing peopl eon the expo line coming from Surrey turns into a train with a few seats available, roughly 1/5th get off I think.

Sorry, but just because young-looking people get off the train in New West doesn't mean they're going to SFU. But for a moment, let's say they are....then you know what would be even sweeter than a cushy ride from Surrey to SFU? If SFU had more places nearby where students could live!

The whole point of transport is to move people and things between places they need to go. Students living closer to where they need to go solves a lot of this issue. The lack of student housing close to schools in Vancouver is quite shocking. Univercity is kinda neat, and UBC has a decent stock of sanctioned places where can apply to get in, but market driven, wild-west landlord type places? A LOT of kids need to go East of Main or off the mountain to find that.

[kylemacmac]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

After the PMB opens, I suspect a direct Surrey - Coquitlam Centre and Surrey - Lougheed Bus will be started which will take pressure off the Columbia transfer. That will be a popular bus route.

This would be a great B-Line route. People really like to travel on lines.