Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[officedweller]

From the NOW:

Province stresses Evergreen progress, PoCo skeptical

Jennifer McFee
Coquitlam NOW


Wednesday, September 30, 2009


The Evergreen Line may seem stalled, but the province asserts the project will continue to move forward on track.

Construction is slated to begin in late 2010, creating about 8,000 new jobs during the four-year building period.

The provincial government has committed $410 million to build the 11-kilometre rapid transit line, while the federal government is contributing nearly $417 million. TransLink is supposed to contribute another $400 million, but spokesperson Ken Hardie recently said the regional body doesn't have its share of capital funds.

Despite TransLink's funding woes, Transportation Minister Shirley Bond said the province is fully committed to delivering the Evergreen Line.

"Project development is well underway including design, engineering and environmental studies, as well as public consultation," Bond told The NOW via e-mail.

"TransLink agreed to be a partner in the Evergreen Line project, and we are prepared to work with TransLink and the council of mayors to make this project a reality within the current economic climate."

But Port Coquitlam Mayor Greg Moore said the Evergreen Line isn't included in funding options provided by TransLink's board for the mayors' council to vote on at the end of October.

"Evergreen Line is not part of our decision. It's very frustrating that we don't even have the ability to make that choice to approve the Evergreen Line, even though we have all of this capital money just sitting there," Moore said.

"The mayors' committee's only role is basically to approve a budget. We don't have any say into what's in the budget. We don't have any say into how the organization is operated or even how the money is spent at the end of the day."

Moore said TransLink's current governance model isn't working and should be revisited.

"There needs to be a review of the governance because here we are with a great opportunity. Everybody's at the table for the Evergreen Line, but we don't get to choose whether we have it or not," he said.

"Shirley Bond and the premier have said it's going to get built. Now we need to learn how it's going to get built and who's going to take it over because TransLink, as it sits right now, has not put it forward as an option in their 10-year plan.

"I think it's important that people know ... it's the TransLink board of directors that has decided not to include it as a funding option for us."

The public has several options to provide their input on project developments. Tri-Cities residents can provide their opinions until Oct. 16 on what information or studies should be included in the project's environmental assessment process. Comments can be sent by e-mail to [email protected], by fax to 250-356-6448 or by mail to the Environmental Assessment Office in Victoria. Information on the environmental assessment process is available at www.eao.gov.bc.ca.

Next month, the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure will seek public input on preliminary project designs. Between Oct. 17 and Nov. 7, seven open house events will take place across the Tri-Cities to gather feedback. Details are posted online at www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca.

[email protected]

© Coquitlam Now 2009

[mezzanine]

I do emphasize an important thing we can do now is to write letters to mayors, translink and Victoria/Bond's office, and perhaps even into the blogosphere about the need for the Skytrain in PMC.

In the past I have wondered about the amount of influence DMJ has on public opinion. He may be ape-shit crazy, but he does get his message out (News1130 got a byline from him).

Now is a 'transformative time' in the development of the evergreen line, and i do not want to see metro being penny wise and pound foolish. it seems like we are going to skytrain, but there is a holdup with progress. that can progress to indefinate delay if we don't push. It may also be a factor to change back to LRT if our voice isn't heard.

engage people out there - i've been spending more time on zweisystem's blog and the georgia straight because we are preaching to the choir here. By hallowe'en, i am hoping for a firm plan for evergreen skytrain!

[mrjauk]

This is all that really needs to be said. Like I wrote in an earlier post, switching from Skytrain to LRT would be penny-wise, pound-foolish.

But transportation minister Shirley Bond is defending the switch to SkyTrain technology, noting the decision was based on a solid business case and endorsed by both the province and TransLink.

"Although the Evergreen Line’s ALRT [SkyTrain] technology has higher construction costs than LRT, it has significantly lower annual operating costs, significantly shorter travel times for commuters, and would have two-and-a-half times more ridership by 2021," Bond said in a statement.

"These benefits clearly outweigh the relatively small additional cost of SkyTrain versus LRT.”

When looking at the total cost of the line, there are construction costs, operating costs, and the mitigation of both by levels of ridership. It's a no-brainer to go with Skytrain.

As someone else mentioned, Trasolini (and other mayors) have a short-term horizon so he'd prefer that an inferior product be built as long as he is in power and able to milk political capital out of the project. He doesn't give a shit about total costs and return over the long-term. For him, the year 2021 might as well be the year infinity. This is why having a board of experts that is not subject to the vagaries of political expediency is a good idea. Screw the politicians, bring on the mandarins.

[racc]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

I do emphasize an important thing we can do now is to write letters to mayors, translink and Victoria/Bond's office, and perhaps even into the blogosphere about the need for the Skytrain in PMC.

In the past I have wondered about the amount of influence DMJ has on public opinion. He may be ape-shit crazy, but he does get his message out (News1130 got a byline from him).

Now is a 'transformative time' in the development of the evergreen line, and i do not want to see metro being penny wise and pound foolish. it seems like we are going to skytrain, but there is a holdup with progress. that can progress to indefinate delay if we don't push. It may also be a factor to change back to LRT if our voice isn't heard.

engage people out there - i've been spending more time on zweisystem's blog and the georgia straight because we are preaching to the choir here. By hallowe'en, i am hoping for a firm plan for evergreen skytrain!

In the end, it is all the Premier's call. A good idea to contract him and your MLA, [email protected]

Letters to the editor and calls to radio talk shows are a good idea. It is important to remain respectful in comments. DMJ continues to not respectful to the very people he needs to convince to use LRT. I expect that as a result, his efforts result in LRT being less likely. He has been at it for 30 years or so and LRT has not happened and SkyTrain has.

[cabotp]

^ Besides the fact that skytrain technology in the long run will provide a better PPHPD. Even if the price difference was greater between LRT and ALRT I still would choose ALRT over LRT.

To this day we still have not fully maxed out the potential PPHPD of the expo line. If that line had been LRT. We would be debating today on whether or not we need to build something else to replace it.

[mr.x]

Here's the real cost difference between LRT and SkyTrain for Evergreen:

LRT: $1.25-billion
SkyTrain: $1.4-billion


It's a no brainer.

[Political_R]

Wouldn't an Evergreen Line Skytrain also allow for higher frequency between Lougheed Town Centre and VCC-Clark? It would sure help when M-Line gets extended to UBC to allow for 2 minute frequency.

[Metro-One]

Also think of it this way, if we were to build the Evergreen Line and the UBC extension as LRT we would have two disjointed LRT lines, meaning we would have to built 2 separate new OMCs, not to mention the rolling stock. Also, we would still have to buy new rolling stock for the E/M lines to carry any future increased demand, along with a new OMC for these cars, since our old one is reaching capacity. This would also create 2 unneeded transfers if going from the Tri-cities to UBC, which many do, and two of those trains would be slow street grade rail, I think I will just drive thank you.

So how about we build both extensions as skytrain! That way we have less transfers, save on the construction of 1 or 2 unneeded OMCs, save money from having not to buy completely separate rolling stock (given we still have to buy more skytrain cars, but in the end if the entire system is skytrain, chances are we will need fewer rail cars than if we have 3 separate systems), have faster travel times and therefore encouraging more people to take transit.

This is such a no brainer, I still can not figure out what the LRT advocates are smoking. Yes, LRT will work in the Valley, but not in these two situations!

I also love their claim that more people will ride if the trains are slow and more geared towards community sight seeing, haha! One only has to go on the WCE for a few days to see the truth behind day to day riding. The WCE probably has some of the nicest views of any commuter train in NA, but by the third time riding, you dont care anymore! You just want the ride to go as quickly as possible to get on with your day.

[mrjauk]

But, an LRT would save (1.4-1.25)/1.4=10.7% in initial construction costs over building an ALRT. And let's please ignore all of the facts that you've outlined above, not to mention lower operating costs and increased ridership.

Penny-wise, Pound-foolish
Penny-wise, Pound-foolish
Penny-wise, Pound-foolish
Penny-wise, Pound-foolish
Penny-wise, Pound-foolish
Penny-wise, Pound-foolish
Penny-wise, Pound-foolish
Penny-wise, Pound-foolish

[mr.x]

^ but then, those LRT folks will come back at you and say how the Evergreen Line is "overbuilt" and how you can build it for $15-million/km and yet expect the same design/benefits as the "overbuilt" design.

[metroXpress]

It's just rediculous how they are just promising people a form of "RAPID TRANSIT" (which they defined themselves) and trying to make everyone happy.

Get it right or not do it...it's that simple.

[The_Henry_Man]

Those LRT people (the DMJ and Zweisystem crew) are some of the most "on9" people I've ever seen/heard in my life (pardon my language if you understand Cantonese). But seriously......they are. Those guys have way too much time fantasizing about a streetcar system made for the 19th century.

[mr.x]

on9? (i undestand cantonese)

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by mr.x

on9? (i undestand cantonese)

"on gau"

[cabotp]

But LRT works in Calgary and Portland, so therefore it must work here. Cause calgary is sooo much better

ps I'm being highly sarcastic.

[metroXpress]

2009-09-29
Should a light-rail transit system be considered to save the Evergreen line from the scrap heap?

Yes 81%
No 19%

Total Votes for this Question: 116

From the Vancouver 24hrs.

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/poll_archive.html

Light rail system could save $400 million

By MATT KIELTYKA

The future of the Evergreen Line may be running off the rails, but Port Moody's mayor says he's not done lobbying for it - yet.

"I suppose if I said I am tired, the next step is to retire as mayor and walk away," Joe Trasolini told 24 hours. "I told the community I'll be there batting for them and that's what I'll do."

The latest setback to the project comes in the form of TransLink's financial woes.

A 10-year plan is going before the Mayors' Council on Regional Transportation that calls for no expansion to the region's public transportation system due to funding shortfalls.

That means TransLink won't have the $400 million needed to fund the rapid-transit line connecting the Tri-Cities.

Trasolini is urging the province to reconsider original plans to make the Evergreen Line a light-rail system instead of a SkyTrain.

The savings, he says, would be enough to jump the current $400-million funding gap.

"The project could go ahead without TransLink's share," he said.

But that plea, which was echoed by Surrey mayor Dianne Watts at a Metro Vancouver board meeting Friday, has fallen on deaf ears - as the provincial government is committed to the SkyTrain-style system.

But when faced with the potential for the project to collapse, Trasolini says its time to reconsider.

"I just hope the [$400-million] difference isn't what kills the project," he said. "That's why we're talking light rail again."

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/News/local/2009/09/30/11202966-sun.html

[ssiguy]

Vancouver NEVER should have built the MLine as SkyTrain nor should have been Canada Line. The both should have been LRT with tunnelled sections where needed. LRT could easily have handled the load and would have saved a money and would have been easier to extend where tunneling is not required {ie MLine Alma to UBC} and yet provide reliable rapid transit. Unfortunatly this is all academic and we are stuck with what we have.
SkyTrain is expensive tech but Evergreen must now be SkyTrain so it can interline with the Columbia to Lougheed MLine to double capacity down the MLine down Broadway to Alma.

[Gordon]

Teh 24hours article is missing some facts . The mayors Council this monthewil okay 1 of 3 potential plans. they will likely go for the middle of the road plan withe some money for expansion.

Gregor Robertson has said the mayors favor the $450 million , but whether they vot4 for it is another thing.

[mezzanine]

The original Evergreen light rail plan?

The official planning docs are here:

http://www.llbc.leg.bc.ca/Public/PubDocs/bcdocs/408594/

Of note:

Planned cost = $970 million (2007)
Length = 11.2 km
Elevated guideway = 0.8 km
Tunnel = 2.8 km
Max capacity 4800/hr/direction

This is less than a third of canada line's max capacity. And this to an area where growth is supposed to be concentrated!

[cabotp]

The people voting in the poll are voting based on one thing

"It Costs less so it must be better" mentality.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Vancouver NEVER should have built the MLine as SkyTrain nor should have been Canada Line. The both should have been LRT with tunnelled sections where needed. LRT could easily have handled the load and would have saved a money and would have been easier to extend where tunneling is not required {ie MLine Alma to UBC} and yet provide reliable rapid transit. Unfortunatly this is all academic and we are stuck with what we have.
SkyTrain is expensive tech but Evergreen must now be SkyTrain so it can interline with the Columbia to Lougheed MLine to double capacity down the MLine down Broadway to Alma.

In the long term LRT would never be able to handle the ridership numbers that we will see in the future along this line. If we had built the entire thing as LRT. I can guarantee in 15-20 years people would be screaming about how over congested it is.

It is always cheaper to spend the capital cost up front. Than it is to try and rebuild later on when the cost of materials and labour is always going to be higher.

Also LRT does not have the potential of beat ALRT in terms of PPHPD. Which is why ALRT is better for the future.

Also with LRT you would have to pay someone a wage to drive the train. If need to suddenly had trains to the line, because of an increase in demand. They can't with LRT because the driver is at home. But with ALRT just send the train out and be done with it.