Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[usog]

Not to derail from the other threads, people keep mentioning we need a response to all the fud put out by certain groups, but that no one has time to do it. At the very least we can pool all the arguments we have into once piece and eventually condense it into something we can put out. Crowdsource ftw!

[racc]

Originally Posted by awvan

I am also 100% in favour of underground all the way to UBC. Cut and cover from Sasamat onwards. There wouldn't be any views due to the forest from Blanca to Acadia, and from then on you'd have residents complain about the noise. Plus you'd ruin the boulevard. It's not worth it.

Cut and cover would absolutely ruin the boulevard. Plus, where would the buses go during construction.

Much better to run it elevated down Chancellor Bvld. Plenty of room. Have it on the south side of the road to provide a cover for the bike path during rain.

[Zassk]

^ Having had relatives living along Chancellor, I'd say a few nimby's with deep pockets and influence live along there... I doubt that would ever get past the proposal stage.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by racc

Cut and cover would absolutely ruin the boulevard. Plus, where would the buses go during construction.

Much better to run it elevated down Chancellor Bvld. Plenty of room. Have it on the south side of the road to provide a cover for the bike path during rain.

Excuse me, but if cut and cover would "absolutely ruin" the boulevard, what would an eyesore like big ugly overhead guideway pylons do for it? If it's cut-and-cover, sure it's bad during the construction stage, but heals up afterward.

Overhead guideways? Imagine putting them down the Stanley Park causeway, claiming they enhance the view and benefit everbody.
I'm sorry but your logic escapes me on that one.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Excuse me, but if cut and cover would "absolutely ruin" the boulevard, what would an eyesore like big ugly overhead guideway pylons do for it? If it's cut-and-cover, sure it's bad during the construction stage, but heals up afterward.

Overhead guideways? Imagine putting them down the Stanley Park causeway, claiming they enhance the view and benefit everbody.
I'm sorry but your logic escapes me on that one.

I can't see why overhead guideways are a problem. No one lives there: it's not like you have to stare at it all the time. And I can't see why it would be a problem having overhead guideways in UBC. UBC is planning to redevelop its lands around University Blvd and the elevated SkyTrain can coexist with the developments.

If someone mentions bringing guideways down Cambie, why not have guidways down University Blvd? Both have a centre median.

[racc]

Originally Posted by Zassk

^ Having had relatives living along Chancellor, I'd say a few nimby's with deep pockets and influence live along there... I doubt that would ever get past the proposal stage.

Nobody lives along most Chancellor. Elevate it were no one lives and use a tunnel along the residential sections.

[wrenegade]

^That's quite a bit of up and down for a relatively short section.

I don't think the boulevard would be destroyed. Do it similarly to Cambie. Yes, some parts would get wrecked, but it would mostly be ok. The road could use re-paving/widening for better bike lanes anyway.

[cabotp]

If they do put it underground along chancellor. Then cut and cover would be the best. Of course it would be a mess during construction. But look at the Cambie boulevard now. Can you tell that it looked like a war zone 2 years ago.

[mooks28]

Why should it be underground along chancellor when East Van had an elevated skytrain put right through a developed neighbourhood in the 80s? Giant waste of money to bury it, probably enough to mean the thing terminates at Arbutus.

[cabotp]

Actually I do think it should be above ground as well.

Just saying that if we get a lot of nimbys and they want it underground. Cut and cover it. End of story. That is not the only route into UBC and they could easily shut the road down for construction. The broadway buses 99 and 9. Would just have to make the left at sasamat and 10th, go to 16h and right turn along 16th and then a right onto Wesbrook Mall. You end up at the exact same destination. It might had a some time to the commute, but it wouldnt' be anything that is earth shattering.

[mr.x]

^ one problem, the 9 requires trolley wires....unless they run fuel buses.

[Alex Mackinnon]

9 17 and 4 actually.

[cabotp]

Stupid trolley wires.

Ok hmm back to the drawing board.

Ok above ground it goes and the nimbys have no say

[BCPhil]

Does anyone know the future of the UBC Golf course? A friend of mine who was working at UBC a few years ago mentioned once that the Musqueam Indian Band wanted to close it and sell it as housing.

It was stalled, but I think if Skytrain goes through there, the pressure to sell it off as housing will be too great, and it will happen.

It would be sad to see it go, but on the other hand it would remove the problem of having a Skytrain pass by a golf course and could be a good source of TOD.

[Alex Mackinnon]

I believe they're not touching it for 20 years or so.

[racc]

Originally Posted by awvan

^That's quite a bit of up and down for a relatively short section.

I don't think the boulevard would be destroyed. Do it similarly to Cambie. Yes, some parts would get wrecked, but it would mostly be ok. The road could use re-paving/widening for better bike lanes anyway.

It would be. The road is much narrower on University Blvd than on Cambie. It is just as cheap to bore anyway so I'm not sure why cut and cover would be used.

[tybuilding]

Elevated down the University Bvld. The boulevard is 8-10m wide, the guideway itself is 8.3m, the road can be diverted around construction of the foundations which will be around 8-10 m like it was on Lougheed Highway for the skytrain there. I tested the soil for the backfill of those foundations, they did not take up too much space. The Boulevard only has trees evenly spaced that are not too big, so it is not like a forest would be gone. Elevated is way nicer for riders as well. The tunnels elsewhere will be bad enough.

Originally Posted by cabotp

If they do put it underground along chancellor. Then cut and cover would be the best. Of course it would be a mess during construction. But look at the Cambie boulevard now. Can you tell that it looked like a war zone 2 years ago.

[twoNeurons]

That's really the only way I can it being built all the way (cost-wise). Of course, if UBC wants it buried when it hits the campus, they're more than welcome to pay for the upgrade.

[CLC]

Any opinion on this piece of letter:
http://www.straight.com/article-260387/there-are-alternatives-broadway-skytrain

There are alternatives to Broadway SkyTrain

I don’t understand the apparent obsession with building a rapid-transit line directly on or under Broadway when a perfectly good alternative route already exists just a few blocks north of Broadway along the 6th Avenue railway spur [Straight Talk, September 24–October 1].

For the most part, this line is already in a deep trench and would only need to be covered—obviously much cheaper and far less disruptive than either a tunnelling or cut-and-cover operation under Broadway itself. The 2nd Avenue–6th Avenue line could easily be connected with the current Millennium Line terminus at VCC, would tie in to the Canada Line at the Olympic Village Station, and—unlike a line on Broadway—would serve Granville Island, a high-volume and hard-to-park destination. From Granville Island, the line could be extended up the Arbutus rail corridor, and then by means of a cut-and-cover operation under the 16th Avenue centre median, out to UBC, thus making it a true “college” line, connecting Douglas College, SFU, VCC, and UBC.

In a time of limited availability of dollars for transit expansion, an “on Broadway” line is just too expensive to be realistic, and this “off Broadway” alternative is the only feasible and sensible solution that is ever likely to come to fruition.

> Gerry Polman / Vancouver

[deasine]

Clearly, the reader doesn't understand the main business activity occurs on Broadway and not 6th/2nd.