Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Zassk

^ I guess the real question is, will riders be using this line mostly to travel within Surrey, or mostly to get to the Expo Line to get out of Surrey?

I assumed the LRT you were proposing would be at-grade and in-traffic, and therefore a stop-gap solution. Because if it was grade-separated, then there would not be the cost savings vs. SkyTrain. I don't think Surrey has reserved transit right-of-ways like Calgary, so there are only two options...

It wasn't me proposing it. Surrey has/had been planning it.

Here's the Newton area plan. Check out page 62.

At-Grade, yes. In traffic: only at the major intersections. There is still cost savings for LRT because much of it could be at grade without problems. SkyTrain stops are usually every 1500m or so. Given Surrey's Arterial block size of 800m, it wouldn't be a stretch to have a stop every second block at 1600m. That would put a stop at Surrey Central, 144th and 152nd (Guildford). Down KGH, it could have stops at King George SkyTrain (96th), 88th, 80th and 72nd (Newton Town Centre).

The advantages of LRT in this corridor is that you don't NEED grade separation. It just needs its own lane. In addition, south of 72nd, perhaps a stop at 64th and then no stops until 32nd. 32 blocks of rail that would have almost no intersections. I'm not sure if it could do the grade up that hill, mind you, so it may have to divert east to 152nd along an existing Rail ROW after Newton.

In this scenario, 20km of SkyTrain rail to White Rock isn't feasible when about 50% of it is farmland.

Anyway, this is getting off topic...

[Zassk]

^ I agree that SkyTrain to White Rock will never happen. I would personally prefer if White Rock's growth was checked and no LRT ever ran there. Growth of White Rock is just growth of suburban sprawl. It's exactly what we shouldn't encourage, in my opinion.

[ambaUp]

Originally Posted by Gordon

If Surrey favours LRT they should have plans that they can present to Translink & the Provincial Government identifying potential Rights of Way

They have King George Hwy, 104th and Fraser Hwy identified for future LRT or BRT. The right-of-ways they have been requiring along those corridors are greater than any of there other arterial routes. I believe they've been trying to get developers to give them that right-of-way as part of new development applications for a while now.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Hypothetically speaking, could they be proposing that Coquitlam Central Station be where it is because they're planning to build a stub off track for future extensions east?

That could be entirely possible. I remember an article where previous transportation minister Kevin Falcon said that the Pitt River bridge could have SkyTrain running on it: probably won't see that in our lifetimes though.

I don't see the need in repositioning Coquitlam Central station if Lincoln would be built. Even in allan_kuan's diagram, the station is still a while aways from the mall. People would still, most likely, be using Lincoln, if it is built, because of its closer proximity to not only the mall, but to all the highrises and other plazas within the area.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Zassk

^ I agree that SkyTrain to White Rock will never happen. I would personally prefer if White Rock's growth was checked and no LRT ever ran there. Growth of White Rock is just growth of suburban sprawl. It's exactly what we shouldn't encourage, in my opinion.

There are problems with that. First, there is a lot, and I mean a lot of unused land in South Surrey. Second, it's not really that far from downtown (around an hour long commute by car). Third, Downtown is located at the Western-most edge of the city (most cities have 360 degree growth, or can at least expand along the coast), Vancouver can only grow to the East. Fourth, not every one can afford to live away from sprawl (the average family income in BC is around 80K, for a family of 4 it makes it hard to afford anything more than a 1 bedroom in the city, and because of the pricepoint, South Surrey was one of the only regions in the Metro to not slow down new home construction one bit during the recession, in fact it got faster).

Fifth, and most importantly, South Surrey and White Rock is actually well planned and managed. There are a huge number of high density condo and townhouse projects in the area. The density in the new areas of South Surrey is higher than in the SFH areas of Vancouver, Burnaby and Coquitlam. Yes, there are monster homes, but they are mixed in very well with low cost high density projects. The density around Semiahmoo, 152nd, 24th and others is higher than in most parts of Coquitlam and Port Moody where they want to build the Evergreen Line, and it won't be long, just a few years, until the population south of the Nico is higher.

LRT to White Rock would be good to keep this style of high density growth moving, and to get more people in the area who are commuting out of their cars. And LRT down the length of 152nd, from 64th to Bena Vista Ave, would net a lot of riders. And I mean a lot of riders if it was built today, not counting the thousands of new homes coming to market in the next few years.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by deasine

That could be entirely possible. I remember an article where previous transportation minister Kevin Falcon said that the Pitt River bridge could have SkyTrain running on it: probably won't see that in our lifetimes though.

I don't see the need in repositioning Coquitlam Central station if Lincoln would be built. Even in allan_kuan's diagram, the station is still a while aways from the mall. People would still, most likely, be using Lincoln, if it is built, because of its closer proximity to not only the mall, but to all the highrises and other plazas within the area.

I really think Lincoln needs to be in the plans for a station at launch. It's near the end of the line so it doesn't really affect travel times. And there is a lot in that area, including 3 different shopping centers, high rises, and I think new townhouses just to the east, as well as available land for even more (have they redeveloped that trailer park yet?) If the station were right over Lincoln Ave, it wouldn't be that long a walkway right into the Sears at Coquitlam Center (less than 200m?). It would sort of be like at Lougheed, where the walkway goes past the Bay, or you could walk further outside intot he mall.

Coquitlam station makes sense where it is when you think about the park and ride and bus loop and WCE, but it's a bad spot for locals to get to. Coquitlam station's location would be a good spot for a Bridgeport style park and ride facility.

And I guess you could always build a lot of stuff where that junkyard is to the West of Mariner. Is it just me, or is "junk yard" the dominant "industry" in Vancouver now?

We should petition to have Lincoln station built.

[Zassk]

When I looked at the September Project Update and saw Lincoln missing, it reminded me of how the Canada Line combined the last 2 stations into one station (Richmond-Brighouse) to save money. I wonder if this is what's going on with the Evergreen Line.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I really think Lincoln needs to be in the plans for a station at launch. It's near the end of the line so it doesn't really affect travel times. And there is a lot in that area, including 3 different shopping centers, high rises, and I think new townhouses just to the east, as well as available land for even more (have they redeveloped that trailer park yet?) If the station were right over Lincoln Ave, it wouldn't be that long a walkway right into the Sears at Coquitlam Center (less than 200m?). It would sort of be like at Lougheed, where the walkway goes past the Bay, or you could walk further outside intot he mall.

Coquitlam station makes sense where it is when you think about the park and ride and bus loop and WCE, but it's a bad spot for locals to get to. Coquitlam station's location would be a good spot for a Bridgeport style park and ride facility.

And I guess you could always build a lot of stuff where that junkyard is to the West of Mariner. Is it just me, or is "junk yard" the dominant "industry" in Vancouver now?

We should petition to have Lincoln station built.

...or at least build in the provision to build the station in the future, like Capstan.

[Mininari]

I wonder if there will still be provisional space for Coquitlam to have the option of grade-separating Pinetree and Lougheed in the future.

Unless Morguard is willing to fork up some bucks, I highly doubt Lincoln St. will get a Station. A lot of the retail on the East side of Pinetree is car-oriented anyway (Save-on Foods, etc). It is a bit of a distance to walk to the Best Buy though... I used to curse that walk when I worked at then Future Shop to get to the bus loop...

[touraccuracy]

Originally Posted by Mininari

I'm mainly just done with the area, and I guess I'm finding that the regional town centre model of the LRSP is failing areas like Port Moody because there is little to no job growth occurring at the regional town centres. Everyone commutes from Port Moody to some other part of the region, and transportation infrastructure has only changed modestly with growth.

The office building, built as part of of the Suterbrook project with the BC Liquor Store in the base is still sitting completely empty... 5 or so floors of nothing.

Port Moody's a good town though, better than Coquitlam.

[metroXpress]

Originally Posted by mr.x

...or at least build in the provision to build the station in the future, like Capstan.

there is certainly that space there left for Capstan....

They should definitely leave one for Lincoln as well.

[officedweller]

Especially since the Coquitlam Centre parking lot could easily house a station. Hopefully Morguard (owner of the mall) will come up with cash.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by Zassk

But Lincoln isn't one of the confirmed stations in the latest design updates... there are only Coquitlam Central and Douglas College stations.



Would it be better to build the 75-year solution now, rather than build an LRT as a 15-year stopgap and then build a SkyTrain at inflated cost later?

I was thinking that Surrey would be well-served by having a fork like YVR/Richmond. Half of the trains would go to Newton and half to Fleetwood. Perhaps someone from the region can comment on this?

If LRT belongs anywhere in this region, it's in Surrey. Realistically, with proper planning, LRT would last us at least 50 years I suspect, before anything near a SkyTrain would be required. You can do quite a bit with light rail. It's a great intermediate system.

[cabotp]

Even if Skytrain or LRT is built in Surrey. Although I do feel LRT would be better as you could cover more ground with the same $$$. Surrey needs far better Bus service. They need to eradicated that 30 min and 60 min buses.

It is probably the biggest difference compared to Vancouver. In Vancouver you miss your bus it is not has bad as the next one will probably be there in 5-15 mins. In surrey you miss a bus on some routes and it can be a really long wait.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by cabotp

It is probably the biggest difference compared to Vancouver. In Vancouver you miss your bus it is not has bad as the next one will probably be there in 5-15 mins. In surrey you miss a bus on some routes and it can be a really long wait.

Not unless you are on a route, like the 49, where it's normal to wait for three buses before you actually get on

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by deasine

Not unless you are on a route, like the 49, where it's normal to wait for three buses before you actually get on

True but at least the bus is there. Compared to not being there at all.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by cabotp

True but at least the bus is there. Compared to not being there at all.

While I agree the bus service should be ideally at least every 15 minutes day time, most Surrey bus routes will never have the ridership demand near that of the Vancouver proper

A trick to get on some of the busiest bus route in Vancouver at the busiest time is to first ride on the opposite direction, then you can surely get on

[Millennium2002]

to be honest... hmm... the suburbs of Surrey + Langley are actually in almost perfect grids (with some irregularities) so serving them with transit won't be a big problem. The main issues I think are:
- TransLink's funding problems which make it hard to improve service in the first place and therefore make it attractive to more people
- The neighbourhood designs of some of these blocks are poor in terms of getting people to the bus stop (e.g. many driveways fronting streets, lack of sidewalks in some places, few streets or passageways connecting the inside of the block to the outside, car-oriented designs of houses and neighbourhoods, etc).

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Coquitlam station makes sense where it is when you think about the park and ride and bus loop and WCE, but it's a bad spot for locals to get to. Coquitlam station's location would be a good spot for a Bridgeport style park and ride facility.

And I guess you could always build a lot of stuff where that junkyard is to the West of Mariner. Is it just me, or is "junk yard" the dominant "industry" in Vancouver now?

We should petition to have Lincoln station built.

Translink's general modus operandi is to built stations near loops, or loops near stations. They prefer to have people get to the station in this order:

1 - Walk
2 - Bus
3 - Car

That's why there aren't park and rides. Ideally, they want to satisfy the first two criteria. I think they figure a lot of people will opt to take the train to the WCE... but still, I agree that the station can be positioned better.

[DKaz]

Why all this need to complain and petition for Lincoln Station to be built.

1. Go to a consultation meeting.
2. Fill in your comments that there ideally should be a station at Lincoln.
3. Talk to everyone else there about the merits of a station at Lincoln and encourage them to write out that they want a station at Lincoln too.

Done and done. This is the consultation period, LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD!