CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[lawfin]

Originally Posted by ardecila

-Relocate the terminal to the south side of the airport, so it can have direct highway and rail access. The current setup is intimidating for many Chicagoans and Hoosiers alike, for whom the industrial wasteland of lakefront Gary is a place to be avoided at all costs.

-Obviously, expand the runway to accommodate properly-sized jets.

Midway has severe capacity constraints, so it won't be expanding any time soon. However, it is readily accessible from the south suburbs via the Stevenson, one of the least-congested highways in Chicagoland.

As to idea 1. --- sounds interesting

as to idea 2 -- gary's longer runway is already longer than any at midway...and I believe there are fed funds to extend it from 7000ft or so to 9000ft or so.

gary 2nd runway is in the 3600 ft variety --which is not too much shorter than midway's shortest

[ardecila]

I saw the official Master Plan... it does indeed call for the main runway to be lengthened. The airport is also working on an extension of the second runway to the northeast.

As for terminals - apparently the goal will be to relocate the terminal to the NW corner, with a loop driveway off of Cline and a big garage. This terminal would be directly adjacent to the relocated EJ&E tracks, but also the CSX tracks that run 1 block north of Chicago Avenue. Hopefully, this means that some sort of rail service can be created with a direct link to the airport.

[lawfin]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I saw the official Master Plan... it does indeed call for the main runway to be lengthened. The airport is also working on an extension of the second runway to the northeast.

As for terminals - apparently the goal will be to relocate the terminal to the NW corner, with a loop driveway off of Cline and a big garage. This terminal would be directly adjacent to the relocated EJ&E tracks, but also the CSX tracks that run 1 block north of Chicago Avenue. Hopefully, this means that some sort of rail service can be created with a direct link to the airport.

I think that would be helpful....I wonder if Gary can get the ball rolling....as in the case of first to market...could it shut out Peotone.....?


Do you have a link to plan?

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The city of Gary has a national image problem that is probably the main reason for the airport's failure.
...
more than just fly-by-night airlines like Hooters Air and SkyValue.

Originally Posted by ardecila

- A name change is probably the best thing for it, and the creation of new services for it, such as express trains, with a similar "hip" branding. Is it too much of a stretch to rename it for Obama? Gary is a poor urban center not far from the South Side. Houston had no problem naming its new airport after Bush, soon after he took office.

More likely "Michael Jackson" or "Jackson Five" International.
While they're at it, they should just rename the city of Gary and write all the bad-will off. Just start the fuck over. Other than that family, is there anything good associated with that city/name? Is there any city in the U.S. that has such a hopelessly shitty reputation? Call it Jackson, IN or something.

As for the Obama name idea, I propose a new thread to discuss (admittedly prematurely - it's a parlour game) what in Chicago should/will eventually be renamed for Obama. It will be tough and interesting. It has to be something significant, but that isn't already named. "Obama River" ? Or can we denude Dan Ryan of his honorary expressway designation?

[VivaLFuego]

While a rail connection would certainly be nice, it's hardly a make-or-break feature at any US airport, let alone considering Gary has relatively fast uncongested access to downtown at most hours of the day via the Skyway->Dan Ryan Express Lanes -> Lake Shore. Remember, the majority of the users of the O'Hare Blue Line station are airport employees, and Midway Orange Line is predominantly commuters using the intermodal terminal (with an ongoing problem of airport employees taking up spaces in the CTA Park-n-ride lot to drive to work).

I guess my point is the viability of Gary as the third regional commercial airport does not hinge on passenger rail access, though it would be smart planning to ensure that such access exists if it does in fact become an active commercial airport. The viability of Gary and/or Peotone will be a function of the demand for air travel generated by businesses and residents of their respective regions and the extent to which other airports are operating over capacity.

It's a fallacy to think the mere construction/existence of an airport would somehow boost the economy of an area - it's generally the other way around (the economy of the area supports the airport, not vice versa), at least when it comes to 2nd or 3rd airports. It's not like the area around Houston Hobby is a treat, and it's not like businesses are falling over themselves to locate near Midway. The primary gateway will attract business investment but such economic rejuvenation with 2nd or 3rd airports exists only in the reality-detached minds of elected officials seeking to bring home the bacon.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Also, rumor has it that Dennis Hassert bought a bunch of land in the area because he knew it was going to happen and is now planning on reaping the benefits. Sounds immoral, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true.

He did the same thing around the idiotic multi-billion dollar "Prairie Parkway" project he was pushing too, so the rumors are at least plausible given his past behavior.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I guess I was stretching a bit with the Stevenson, but come on - at peak periods, it is not bad compared to the Kennedy, Eisenhower, or Dan Ryan. Obviously, it is much more heavily-used than the new segment of 355 or the Elgin-O'Hare stub, but for a radial freeway...

I've never been caught in traffic on the Stevenson during off-peak periods, if you don't count construction and accident-related jams.

I don't have the data in front of me, but I think you're right insofar as the Stevenson spends fewer hours of the day under congested conditions than the others... however, when it is congested, I think it's congested-travel-time factor (i.e. the extent to which it slows down relative to free flow) is the worst in the region. If you've ever had the misfortune of driving it between about 2-5pm you know what I mean.

Government regulation of gate assignments (or something similar) would be aimed at distributing flights for the greatest efficiency. If done properly, it could foster competition, since airlines like American and United at O'Hare, and Southwest at Midway, have repeatedly exhibited anti-competitive behavior in blocking the entry of smaller airlines. Relegating the small airlines to places like Milwaukee and Gary is a surefire way for those airlines to fail.

OK, but dealing with anti-competitive behavior of airlines is a much different issue than having a bunch of pigeon political appointee board members quibbling about how their constituents want to fly to Atlanta via Airline X, and letting which gates are assigned to which airline/destination be subject to community group activism and political dealmaking, the latter of which could only end in an inefficient allocation.

[Chicago Shawn]

Originally Posted by bnk

Has anyone heard about a thing called a potental HSR express train into downtown via Midway or even thought about the idea?

Forty miles is nothing.

Chicago’s real third airport is Mitchell in Milwaukee which even farther from the population center of Chicagoland and it is used quite a bit by us fibs.

Why not have a southern option? Think Big, long term. I would take even a mid america airport in a decade. Do you really think that the region will stop growing south and turning and mixing farmland and insignifiant local wind power as an answer to the future.

That part of Illinois should never be a center of wind power within this state. There are better locations and even better US states if long effective low resistance high power lines can be developed as the Obama administration is trying to achieve.

The oval from the Texas pan handle to the Dakotas hold the most potential of wind power if the lines can transfer their wind power to the major metro areas of the US.

Even T. Bone Pickens has given up on wind....


The idea reeks of urbanism Nimbyism against [development] aka sprawl in the greater region to prevent serives for the people down there for their benifit of them.

What is that called?

NEIMDNBY IITAAFM

Not even in my distant Neighbors back yard if it takes anything away from me.

For one, northeastern Illinois has some of the most productive farmland in the world, and once its gone, its gone forever. We have 18-24 inches of black organic soil that took 10,000 years to create sitting above gravel aquifers left as glacial deposits, which efficiently drains the land. We should be preserving some of it. The last time I checked the world population is still growing.

And yes, I for one would not like to see Will County paved over into more un- planned wasteful sprawl that puts our region's suburbs into bigger cluster fuck than already exists. If that makes me an urban elitist, then so be it; because in the end it will cost us all more in the long run; as the state will be paying for a large part of the airport build out, then expanding all the farm roads into thoroughfares, and then as you suggest; also paying for a rail connection should one be built.

There also aren't any major population centers beyond Peotone that would use this airport, unlike Gary or Mitchell. Sure we have Kankakee and Champaign, but how many customers would that generate? If we do get real HSR here, it would link such places more efficiently to our existing infrastructure, such as O'Hare should a link be built there. The HSR would also reduce the need for so many short distance flights out of O'Hare and Midway and would free up capacity at both airports.

As far as wind power, well according to the article, the site was called good to excellent for the location of turbines based on the local geography and wind patterns for the last 100 years. That was based on the study done by the private company who specializes in building such wind farms.

[Marcu]

At least for the time being the State is only buying up land, which happens to be cheap right now and which can be resold if Peotone falls through, as it hopefully will.

[Chicago Shawn]

Originally Posted by Marcu

At least for the time being the State is only buying up land, which happens to be cheap right now and which can be resold if Peotone falls through, as it hopefully will.

For sure. If the plan does fall through, the state could probably sell the land for a profit. If the airport does get built, then it was a wise decision to buy the land up early and in a recession when developers aren't buying anything right now for future land banking.

If the airport plan does not go forward, I would prefer the state lease the land out and generate some annual revenue from it. Lease to a commercial farming operation and perhaps throw up some turbines. The large turbines can generate some significant revenue sharing for the land owners. I know a farmer in southern Wisconsin who is being courted by a couple of companies looking to build turbines on his land; he is holding out for the best price offer on the annual payments.

[bnk]

As already noted before and in the quoted link below the Illinois capital plan will spend $100,000,000 acquiring land for Peotone. As also stated even if this goes down and does not happen it is a wise investment for the state buying this land at a low rate in this depression. Someday and someday will happen this land will be developed regardless of how many inches of soil are on top of it. There is plenty of fallow Midwest land that the Fed pays farmers not to grow crops on to support the current grain prices. Losing such a relatively small area to an economic engine is not something to cry about. The area may well be a good location within Illinois for wind but as I stated earlier there are much better out of state locations away from urban centers for this to take place if the High power lines can be improved and updated like the Obama administration wants to do anyway. Not everyone wants a major windmill op in their back yard much the same like those that live in the footprint of O'Hare hate jet aircraft. The question is which route is the best overall plan for the greater Chicago area. I myself think that an International Lincoln Airport in Peotone would be better for the entire region esp. the southland region. Your retort Chicago Shawn was taken and personally digested with a respectful point of view of your idea and where you are coming from.

Originally Posted by denizen467

http://www.chicagobusiness.com (Hinz blog - couldn't find direct link)

Good, bad and ugly: Illinois' new capital plan
Posted by Greg H. at 7/15/2009 10:53 AM CDT on Chicago Business

...
total reconstruction of Wacker Drive south of Randolph, now scheduled to begin late next spring, according to the Chicago Department of Transportation.
...

[lawfin]

Seems it is tax dollar well spent; now if we can get the rest of the runways

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...754087254.html

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by Marcu

At least for the time being the State is only buying up land, which happens to be cheap right now and which can be resold if Peotone falls through, as it hopefully will.

Well they aren't even buying it yet, they are entering into contracts for sale of real estate, which mean the state has the option to buy the land contingent on the approval and funding of the airport. So they aren't really spending the money quite yet.

[Kngkyle]

They have finally thrown in the towel...

Bensenville Homeowners Sell For O'Hare Expansion

For some of our Chicaga-area neighbors, fight is over. They've been all but abandoned, the last of the holdouts in Bensenville, refusing to move for the O'Hare expansion. As CBS 2's Dana Kozlov reports some no longer feel safe living in their own homes.

Lush Illinois prairie? More like a modern-day ghost town. That's what this section of Bensenville looks like now, a few years after the city of Chicago began buying homes for the O'Hare modernization program. And longtime resident Arlene Benson doesn't like it.

"You can just see, this is terrible," Benson said.

Benson is one of only a half dozen holdouts still living in this section just west of Irving Park Road and east of York. But dry overgrowth was the final straw in her often contentious, decade-long fight to keep her house. She's selling it to Chicago now, in part because she fears for her life.

"I was terrified on the Fourth of July, I just couldn't sleep. Because if somebody would have thrown a firecracker or a spark, or somebody going by on Irving Park would flip a lit cigarette out the window, this whole thing would just go up," Benson said.

She isn't exaggerating. Weeds and brush at least two feet high engulf this once vibrant community. Signs on empty homes read: "Problems: Call MB Management."

MB employees can be seen patrolling the near vacant neighborhood but not cutting the grass, a fact that's irked other expansion holdout Bill Baird.

"That kind of upset us at the time because it made it look like a deserted wilderness here," Baird said.

Eve Rodriguez, a spokesperson for the O'Hare expansion program, wouldn't say why these city-owned properties are apparently being neglected, even after being asked the same question several times. She would say that just this month, the few holdouts still living here agreed to go.

Despite the outcome, Baird says he doesn't regret one minute of his fight.

When asked if he felt defeated, Baird said, "No, I'm walking away with dignity."

So what's next for Mayor Daley's runway expansion plan, which was originally slated to be completed by 2006, now that all the affected residents will be leaving?

Eve Rodriguez says once litigation is wrapped up, the city of Chicago will officially own all that land, not just the homes, and it will become a secured construction site.

The next court date is August 27th.

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/bensenv...2.1105411.html

[simcityaustin]

Good news!! Finally.

[jpIllInoIs]

Looks like the anti-Ohare expansion Attorney is going to have to find a new sacred cow to milk. Although there is still the cemetary?

[jpIllInoIs]

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=314017



Look who's talking on Bensenville's, airport's future
By Marni Pyke | Daily Herald Columnist

The village of Bensenville and city of Chicago are talking.

If you've paid no attention to the Cold War between the two communities over the modernization of O'Hare International Airport, then this won't be a surprise.

But for anyone who's watched the standoff between expansion foe John Geils, former village president of Bensenville, and Chicago Department of Aviation Commissioner Rosemarie Andolino, who also heads the airport construction program, the détente is extraordinary.

This sea change is due to Bensenville's newly elected leader Frank Soto, who took office in May. Soto said he's immersed himself in village issues leading to "interesting days and long nights and a lot of coffee drinking."

..........

The time has come to deal, Soto contends, and to get the best possible outcome for the village.
"I think the issue of the airport proceeding is a relatively foregone conclusion," Soto said. "The work is already being done, it's being done 24 hours a day. The FAA is behind it, the state legislature is allowing it to occur.

"It's a disservice to our residents if we ignore the obvious and don't deal with the future. At this point in time, we have to deal with the cards we have. The key is to improve the quality of life, resolve the issues and get rid of the uncertainty."

To that end, Soto sat down with Andolino recently to exchange preliminary information and no doubt size each other up.

"It was a cordial discussion," he said.

As a result, the city is helping Bensenville with flooding problems by providing stormwater detention at the airport.

"Their offer to resolve flooding was a good-faith gesture that was appreciated and opens the door to future discussions," Soto said.

On the city end, Chicago Department of Aviation First Deputy Commissioner Michael Boland was similarly diplomatic.
"I can confirm the collegiality and information sharing of the relationship," he said.

So what's next?

......

The previous administration "had done no prep work," Soto said. "They had no idea of how sewer systems would be affected, how the water systems that goes to the residents would be affected."
Along with nuts and bolts, Soto also wants to know what the city will do to buffer the expansion and how the village can benefit economically.

"It's not only the loss of homes and businesses but the tax in perpetuity is gone," he said. "We want to put Bensenville in a position where it's better off both from a financial position and from a quality of life position."

.........

........
Boland noted the city wants the litigation settled "yesterday. We would like these cases to go away as soon as possible. They're costing us time and money."

That gives Bensenville a perfect bargaining position, Soto thinks.

"They have issues that are time-sensitive," he said. "We don't want to be obstructionist, but we're not just going to disappear because it's a new administration."

[nomarandlee]

Not OMP news per se' but surely the lifting of restrictions played their part........

I also am curious where the two new international destinations will be.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,3655455.story

American to expand Chicago hub with new financing
American to add 57 flights at O'Hare next year, the largest increase in flying at any of its major airports

By Julie Johnsson

Tribune staff reporter

9:31 a.m. CDT, September 17, 2009

The parent of American Airlines said Thursday it has obtained $2.9 billion in new financing and is making changes in its flight schedule that will bolster its presence in Chicago and four other major hubs.

Starting next year, American plans to add 57 new flights at O'Hare International Airport for a total of 487 daily departures, the largest increase in flying at any of its major airports.

American plans to begin non-stop flights from Chicago to Beijing in 2010, service it had planned for 2009 but delayed because of the economic crisis.

American, the world's second-largest carrier, also to add 12 new domestic destinations from Chicago and two other international destinations in addition the flight to China's capital, officials said.

AMR's stock rose more than 20 percent to $8.90 in early trading on the New York Stock Exchange after the announcement.

The moves signal that the airline industry may be emerging from a nose-dive in traffic earlier this year, and that financing is becoming more freely available for carriers. The steep fall off in international and business-class travel had heightened worries that American, United Airlines and U.S. Airways could wind up in bankruptcy over the winter months, when air travel traditionally slows.....................

[Busy Bee]

^^^wow!!!

[jpIllInoIs]

American decision to increase OHare flights by 57 comes at the expense of St.louis and Raliegh. StL will lose 46 daily AMR flights and be left with 36 daily AMR flights. WOW! That is bad news for other midwest cities airport ambitions. Cincinnatti shared the same type of demotion, losing more than 50% of its NW/Delta flight after the merger. And Detroit and Memphis got clipped. Only Minneapolis survived that merger without getting big reductions.