Port Mann/Highway 1 Improvements | Completed

[BCPhil]

The changes to the Grandview and Willingdon interchanges are long overdue. The "line" that forms down the right lane of Grandview to get on the Freeway is lame, and at rush can extend a long way. Having all lanes from Grandview go onto the freeway is going to be a life saver.

I think it is missing a way onto South Bound Boundary from Westbound TCH. I think it looks like there is room for a left turn lane if they make the road a bit wider (onto land it looks like they are buying anyway). The only trouble might be someone from the HOV exit trying to turn left and cutting across 2 other lanes.

I also think that if they aren't really doing anything to the 1st ave ramps it won't do much to solve that problem. Right now it's not so much the Cassiar causing the back ups, it's people merging from 1st ave and then some people trying to exit onto Boudary.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

The changes to the Grandview and Willingdon interchanges are long overdue. The "line" that forms down the right lane of Grandview to get on the Freeway is lame, and at rush can extend a long way. Having all lanes from Grandview go onto the freeway is going to be a life saver.

Yup. I can't wait for the day when those buildings on the South East Corner are knocked down. And not sure but I think possibly the houses on the north east side are going to. Now I know why those lots have been empty for all these years. They have been waiting to finally fix it.

I think it is missing a way onto South Bound Boundary from Westbound TCH. I think it looks like there is room for a left turn lane if they make the road a bit wider (onto land it looks like they are buying anyway). The only trouble might be someone from the HOV exit trying to turn left and cutting across 2 other lanes.

There would be room once all the building are knocked down. The problem I think is how many people will want to turn left there. Remember that has been a no left turn area since I believe the late 70's. So there is no recent data to say what will happen. I do remember has a kid my dad turning left to go south on boundary. And then you couldn't do that anymore and I was still a kid.

So if a huge majority of people want to turn left than do we create a situation of the Left turn lane backing up into a through lane causing a jam. I'd like to see a left turn lane there. But somehow I think it would be better to just leave it out. It hasn't been there for decades so it is not like people will miss it.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by cabotp

There would be room once all the building are knocked down. The problem I think is how many people will want to turn left there. Remember that has been a no left turn area since I believe the late 70's. So there is no recent data to say what will happen. I do remember has a kid my dad turning left to go south on boundary. And then you couldn't do that anymore and I was still a kid.

So if a huge majority of people want to turn left than do we create a situation of the Left turn lane backing up into a through lane causing a jam. I'd like to see a left turn lane there. But somehow I think it would be better to just leave it out. It hasn't been there for decades so it is not like people will miss it.

I don't think a majority would want to turn left there, but a lot would.

Maybe as an alternative they could make an exit near Lougheed, but not onto Lougheed, it just loops around, elevated, and comes down onto Boundary Southbound. A bit expensive sounding, but it would ease presure on Willingdon as I know a lot of people use that exit to get onto Boundary going south via Canada Way. I used to do it a lot as it was the fastest way to get north-south.

Maybe make the Westbound exit 1 lane wider, and segregate the left lane with barriers for the left turn well in advance (so you can't come off the HOV exit and make a left turn). If the signs back at Willingdon said this lane for South on Boundary *Exit Only*, and you missed it or stay in the HOV lane too long, tuff luck.

I just really think more needs to be done to the stretch between Grandview and Hastings, I think they aren't doing enough as I always find when I travel, that is where there are problems, and traffic actually speeds up after the Boundary exit to where traffic merges coming OFF Willingdon. Same the other way, slow until Willingdon, then fast through Grandview, and slow again at where Boundary merges onto TCH.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I don't think a majority would want to turn left there, but a lot would.

Maybe as an alternative they could make an exit near Lougheed, but not onto Lougheed, it just loops around, elevated, and comes down onto Boundary Southbound. A bit expensive sounding, but it would ease presure on Willingdon as I know a lot of people use that exit to get onto Boundary going south via Canada Way. I used to do it a lot as it was the fastest way to get north-south.

I live near knight & 41st. And I actually find it quicker to go up Rupert or Renfrew. And find the left turn light at Canada Way to be way too slow. So I just avoid it like the plague.

I think a loop around would work but of course it would require land and that is almost impossible in that area.

Maybe make the Westbound exit 1 lane wider, and segregate the left lane with barriers for the left turn well in advance (so you can't come off the HOV exit and make a left turn). If the signs back at Willingdon said this lane for South on Boundary *Exit Only*, and you missed it or stay in the HOV lane too long, tuff luck.

That could possibly work. Got to keep that tuff attitude for those people who think they can drive across 3 lanes right at the interection

I just really think more needs to be done to the stretch between Grandview and Hastings, I think they aren't doing enough as I always find when I travel, that is where there are problems, and traffic actually speeds up after the Boundary exit to where traffic merges coming OFF Willingdon. Same the other way, slow until Willingdon, then fast through Grandview, and slow again at where Boundary merges onto TCH.

The reason it tends to speed eastbound Hwy right after the boundary exit. Is that the HOV lane starts and the exit lane for Willingdon starts. So you go from 2 lanes to 4 lanes and then right after willingdon exit 3 lanes. The only problem I find is people merging from grandview and people exiting at willingdon. I can get quite scary look over your shoulder and mirror checking constantly while at the same time making sure the idiot in front of doesn't just suddenly slow down or stop. But otherwise it does flow nicely through there. And will flow even better once the changes are made.

As for Westbound I've never understood why people drive so slow coming up to the Willingdon exit. I can usually do about 90-100 in the left lane and it feels like the right lane is stopped. And as soon as I get past the willingdon exit it isn't hard to merge over to take the Grandview Exit. I wonder if it because the Grandview exit is fairly straight and very very long. That people don't feel like that have to brake all the much and can really just coast up to boundary. Really I think it flows nice because of the design of the off ramp.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by cabotp

I live near knight & 41st. And I actually find it quicker to go up Rupert or Renfrew. And find the left turn light at Canada Way to be way too slow. So I just avoid it like the plague.

Yeah, I used to do it a lot in the evening after rush hour to get to someone's place. It is a pretty slow light during the day, but at night it's really fast. And once you are on Boundary it's usually stop free until Kingsway.

I think a loop around would work but of course it would require land and that is almost impossible in that area.

It would be, but I've always had this feeling that one day there will be a bridge at the foot of Boundary connecting Boundary/Marine to Highway 91, to relieve pressure from the Knight Street and Queensborough bridges.

The reason it tends to speed eastbound Hwy right after the boundary exit. Is that the HOV lane starts and the exit lane for Willingdon starts. So you go from 2 lanes to 4 lanes and then right after willingdon exit 3 lanes. The only problem I find is people merging from grandview and people exiting at willingdon. I can get quite scary look over your shoulder and mirror checking constantly while at the same time making sure the idiot in front of doesn't just suddenly slow down or stop. But otherwise it does flow nicely through there. And will flow even better once the changes are made.

I hope it flows better. I'm still thinking though that people coming off 1st ave will be merging with traffic still while other traffic is trying to get into the right lane for the Exit at Boundary.

As for Westbound I've never understood why people drive so slow coming up to the Willingdon exit. I can usually do about 90-100 in the left lane and it feels like the right lane is stopped. And as soon as I get past the willingdon exit it isn't hard to merge over to take the Grandview Exit. I wonder if it because the Grandview exit is fairly straight and very very long. That people don't feel like that have to brake all the much and can really just coast up to boundary. Really I think it flows nice because of the design of the off ramp.

Yeah, I don't know what's up with that. I think it's because typically people slam on their breaks before they are fully in the exit lane, and the Willingdon exit is a bit confusing as is (I think it's great, but if you are unfamiliar you can get messed up).

When I used to drive through there both lanes would be fast, then slow right down before the exit to a crawl, then once you pass the exit, where the HOV ends, it's like there are no more cars on the freeway and everyone — it to 120. I think the new design for the exit at Willingdon should solve that issue.

It will be somewhat like the 91 Eastbound where you exit onto the Queensborough. I've never been slowed down by much through there (usually because of the 2 lanes on the turn before it or because of merging near the bridge).

[Mininari]

I wonder if any changes to speed limits might happen when all of this is finished. Say, raise the Limit over the Port Mann Bridge from 80 to 90? Or maybe even 100 along the entire route, going down to 80 for the Cassiar, and 70 for the Second Narrows?

Purely speculative topic? Or has this already been decided by someone?

[DKaz]

Who cares what the speed limit is, everyone typically goes 10 to 20 over the limit anyway lol. Until you hit a bozo who's going 10 under on the left lane that is.

I'd say 100 to Willingdon, 90 to Cassiar, 80 through the tunnel, 70 on Second Narrows would be good.

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by Mininari

I wonder if any changes to speed limits might happen when all of this is finished. Say, raise the Limit over the Port Mann Bridge from 80 to 90? Or maybe even 100 along the entire route, going down to 80 for the Cassiar, and 70 for the Second Narrows?

Purely speculative topic? Or has this already been decided by someone?

Why couldn't the speed limit be increased to 110 kph or 120 kph long the stretch through Burnaby and Van after the upgrade is done.

[Metro-One]

They would have to flatten out some of the dips and bumps in the existing roadway first.

I think 100 all the way to Grandview, then 90 to the Second Narrows where it becomes 70 is pretty good.

I really hope this upgrade comes with improved signage and possibly some electronic signs for traffic and weather updates.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

Why couldn't the speed limit be increased to 110 kph or 120 kph long the stretch through Burnaby and Van after the upgrade is done.

A couple of reasons:

1. Higher speed limits equate to higher decibel levels in an urban area;

2. Interchanges are too closely spaced, which results in a lot of weaving with the numerous on/off ramps;

If a c/d system was continuous from Cape Horn to Grandview, I could see the express lanes signed at 100 km/hr, however.

100 km/hr speed limits are typically only placed along freeway standard highways with longer spaced interchanges in rural areas, eg. east of 152nd St. on Hwy 1 and south of Hwy 17 on Hwy 99.

Irrespective of a 90km/hr speed limit, operating speed is still ~110 km/hr in the left lane.

As for the new PMB, with the wider 12-foot lanes/median widths I'm certain that the speed limit will be increased to 90 km/hr at least along the express lanes to provide speed continuity - It's already 100 km/hr east of the PMB and 90 km/hr west of the PMB.

[Whalleyboy]

i thought in surrey the speed limit is 90 on hwy 1

[cabotp]

^ It's 90 from about just east of 176. Or least somewhere around there. Don't pay much attention usually doing 110 when I can So yes it is 90 in one part but not the other.

I could see the express lanes at Grandview and Capehorn being at least 100 but the collector lanes will probably be either 80 or 90.

Noticed today that the most eastern house on the South East corner of Grandview and Boundary has a fence up around the front. Possibly it goes around but not sure. And the back lot of the corner business appears to be empty now.

[Mininari]

Thanks for the replies.
The volume issue definitely would be something to consider. I remember that people were complaining about more noise when the HOV lanes opened -- the noise was because traffic was moving at higher speeds again!

I know this has probably already been asked, but are the interchanges between Douglas and Cape Horn being revamped to permit a future C/D system along the entire length?

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Mininari

I know this has probably already been asked, but are the interchanges between Douglas and Cape Horn being revamped to permit a future C/D system along the entire length?

All of the new Hwy 1 overpasses eastward from Douglas and inclusive of Cariboo Road appear to have the bridge abutments placed considerably further back, which suggests that they have left open the future option for a continuation of the c/d system up to that point.

I don't think that's the case with the Brunette overpass however.

[cabotp]

Just noticed a potential future problem area. After looking at the alignment pdf files. I noticed that if you are eastbound on Hwy 1 and take the Willingdon exit just after the boundary exit. You will go under the eastbound Grandview Hwy on ramps. Then you will meet up with those same ramps on the inside. the problem is your lane then merges into the two Grandview lanes. Then your Willingdon exit will be a few Metres ahead. So basically you have to merge for no reason. To bad they could not extend that lane straight to Willingdon. That way you would not have to merge.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Just noticed a potential future problem area. After looking at the alignment pdf files. I noticed that if you are eastbound on Hwy 1 and take the Willingdon exit just after the boundary exit. You will go under the eastbound Grandview Hwy on ramps. Then you will meet up with those same ramps on the inside. the problem is your lane then merges into the two Grandview lanes. Then your Willingdon exit will be a few Metres ahead. So basically you have to merge for no reason. To bad they could not extend that lane straight to Willingdon. That way you would not have to merge.

Yea I called that, but since not many people do exit onto Willingdon going that way it may just be cost savings vs. keeping the lane dedicated to Willingdon exit. Some people from Grandview Hwy may wish to exit off to Willingdon as well.

Because the merge is onto C/D lanes, it's not as bad as disrupting throughfare flow of traffic. Half of the time traffic from Grandview will be a trickle because of the light, save for people turning left/right from Boundary.

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Wow! People actually DO that! That's insane. They could just get off at the Willingdon exit which is less congested anyhow... and go straight through to Gilmore.

We've done that, to avoid the 8 phase light at Willingdon and Hwy 7, or we were stopping at Home Depot, but losing that option isn't a big deal... it was quite hard to cross the exiting traffic a few weeks ago.

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Apparently the Nippon Clip Ons are starting to get old so they've had to restrict heavy trucks from using the outside lanes. They're already at the end of their 50 year lifespan although they think they can get another 10 years out of them. This could be a good solution to add an extra lane each way on the Second Narrows and widen each sidewalk until the end of the bridge's lifespan. The main question is if the Second Narrows can handle to extra weight?

That photo reminds me of the old Connaught (Cambie) bridge, with its lanes on the outside of the truss... or the Mckinley Bridge in St Louis, which I drove accross shortly before it was condemed back at the turn of the century... now *that* was a scary crossing.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Yea I called that, but since not many people do exit onto Willingdon going that way it may just be cost savings vs. keeping the lane dedicated to Willingdon exit. Some people from Grandview Hwy may wish to exit off to Willingdon as well.

Because the merge is onto C/D lanes, it's not as bad as disrupting throughfare flow of traffic. Half of the time traffic from Grandview will be a trickle because of the light, save for people turning left/right from Boundary.

Ya I figured it probably had something to do with cost savings. But has for hardly going up Willingdon. I sure do see quite a few cars go that way. But like you said being that it will be the C/D section it won't be as bad. I can just see in 50 years from now how people will be bitching about what a stupid design they did and why didn't they do better the first time.

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

Why couldn't the speed limit be increased to 110 kph or 120 kph long the stretch through Burnaby and Van after the upgrade is done.

It was 60 mph (96 km/h) before it was reduced during the Energy Crisis (Actually it was reduced over a year later, but that's another story)