Canada Line | Completed

[agrant]

Originally Posted by WBC

Honestly, who goes shopping in the Cambie Village other then the locals? Why would you go there?

For me, only for the Park Theatre. But that's only once or twice a year.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by WBC

Honestly, who goes shopping in the Cambie Village other then the locals? Why would you go there?

Yeah, maybe Cambie should class themselves up a bit. Except for that dutch breakfast shoe place, and the new Stela's, everything there is pretty much generic ethnic food you can find in ANY neighbourhood in the entire lower mainland (even dutch breakfast is spreading everywhere). Every time I've eaten in the area, I've been more disappointed than amazed. It's no Commercial Drive, that's for sure.

There's just not enough there. Except the theater, there is no real draw to going to the area in the first place. What's Cambie's "Wonderbucks"? The cycle shop? Even the number of shops and restaurants is low. If you are feeling picky, Cambie is not the place to go.

It's still summer time, and people want patios so they can have a nice beer outside. There's very little in the way of patios on Cambie, hence horrible summer business. I bet it picks up in the winter.

And before anyone says its because the Stations are too far away I ask why is Commercial Drive such a huge smashing success, when most of the good stuff is far from Commercial-Broadway station? I walk all the time, and so do many, from Commercial-Broadway all the way to Venables and back, that's easily twice as far as walking between the 2 Canada Line Stations at the Cambie village.

Cambie should be redeveloped to give it the feel of Commercial crossed with Yaletown. Build some new buildings, with rental apartments up top and commercial space bellow, but further back from the street so that the restaurants can all have patios. But the area should be given more of a residential focus, too many of the businesses are a waste of space with no residential properties above. Move more people into the area, and the business will follow. Cambie has a lot of potential, but it takes some effort. They can't just sit back and think business will roll in just because the Canada Line is finished. Canada Line + ???? = profit. Cambie needs to find their ????

[agrant]

One of the reasons Commercial Drive is popular, is that its rival street, Clark, is an industrial wasteland. There's not much else around there. And because the retail/restaurants are actually really cool places.

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

[Guy labeled SkyTrain] Hi, I'm a Mac.

[Guy labeled Canada Line] And I'm a PC. I'm new and I go to the airport.


[SkyTrain] Well that's great. I'm really happy that Vancouver now has a rapid transit link to the airport.

[Canada Line] About time, eh? I also go to Richmond.


[SkyTrain] Neat. I'm sure people will be thrilled to be able to catch a late train home from downtown to Richmond without having to wait more than a couple of minutes.

[Canada Line] Well, actually people may have to wait up to 20 minutes for a train.


[SkyTain] Oh. Well at least at rush hour and on really busy days like the fireworks you will be able to run four car trains to move people out as quickly as possible. I find that really helps.

[Canada Line] Actually my stations can only hold a two-car train.


[SkyTrain] Really? But surely you can expand them. Mine only started at 80 metres in length but can be expanded to 100 metres without too much difficulty.

[Canada Line] My stations can expand from 40 meters-


[SkyTrain does a spit-take] 40 metres?!

[Canada Line] Yes, 40 metres. And they can be expanded to 50 meters so we can use two and a half-car trains! Plus they have juice stands. Or at least they will...


[SkyTrain] You're adorable.

Excellent stuff. This really gave me a laugh, but I can't help but think that the Canadaline is the shiny new mac that can't be easily expanded, and Skytrain is the PC with its hundreds of possibilities. Either way, A+ stuff.

[deasine]

No no no... remember the mac is the one that can run windows... so there are more possibilities on the mac =)

If you think from a cost perspective, the SkyTrain is really an apple and Canada Line is the PC.

[Canadian Mind]

Yea, and Canada Line be the inempt line, like the PC is the inempt personal compy.

Good post SFU!

[giallo]

Originally Posted by WBC

Honestly, who goes shopping in the Cambie Village other then the locals? Why would you go there?

It's true. Cambie is a pretty disappointing street. I lived on 18th and Heather, a mere three blocks from Cambie, and I'd only use it for the liquor store, Black Dog video (relocated to Commercial) and the Safeway. Besides those three stores, I never shopped anywhere there. The City needs to seriously look at Cambie and start reevaluating the zoning laws now that they have a $1.9b track running underneath it. A mixture of retail, office and residential from City Hall all the way up to 41st should do the trick.

[Metro-One]

the funny thing is all these merchants are going to blame the Canada Line for everything now. Did the global recession ever cross their minds?

[Zassk]

It's easy to criticize the Canada Line stations now, but remember the outcry over the price of this line. There was no way this line was going to be gold-plated like the NDP's Millennium Line was. I doubt we will ever see another line built to that level again.

Look ahead to the Evergreen Line, now, which may or may not get built. Nobody knows where the shortfall money for that line is going to come from, or what other projects will be sacrificed to make it happen. So what appetite will any stakeholder (including the taxpayer) have for things like:

* extra $100 million (?) to build Evergreen stations to the aesthetic level of the M-line;
* extra $100 million (?) to build Evergreen stations at 80m rather than 40-50m;
* extra $50 million (?) to pre-build a Y-junction at Coquitlam Centre for future spur to Pitt Meadows;
* extra $50 million (?) to double-track all the way to Douglas College, rather than single track the last segment;
* extra $50 million (?) to build a new OMC rather than shoehorn everything into the existing one;
etc...

In the current climate, we should be ecstatic if the Evergreen Line is built with stations as drab and short as the Canada Line, in my opinion... We can find more money 30 years later to expand these lines if needed, as is being done with Expo Line in the next few years.

Give me 3 drab lines for the cost of 2 Millennium Lines.

[deasine]

I don't know, I don't think the Evergreen Line would be built like the Canada Line. It wouldn't make any sense for them to not build 80 metre platforms.

[Gordon]

I would suspect we would see 80m platforms if the most likely service plan is used, because that is the only way that they could totally integrate it with the Millenium Line.

[NucksFanInVan]

I'm not convinced we would need 80 m platforms for the Evergreen Line. First off, I don't think the ridership would need it for years if not decades. Secondly, full integration with the M-Line would mean that the Evergreeen trains would augument (not replace) service along the most heavily-used part of the route - Lougheed to VCC / ???. I don't see a problem using 2-car Mark II trains (and 4-car Mark I trains?) to provide this service in the short and medium terms.

Everything would need to be ultimately expandable to 80/100 m, for sure.

All that being said, it's ridiculous to build the Evergreen line before extending the Millenium Line to Arbutus. As people have said before:

Against the Evergreen Line:
- WCE (to downtown) and 97B (to Skytrain) already serve the Evergreen area. 97B is not at capacity. Few other areas already have it so good. We could give the 97B signal priority and a dedicated bus lane at a fraction of the cost.
- Many or most of the evergreen passengers would wind up transferring through Commercial-Broadway to Expo or 99B, which just can't take a significant increase. That means that either the line doesn't get the ridership it needs, or brings unmanageable traffic levels to Commercial/Broadway.

In favour of the M-Line:
- Extending to Arbutus serves a major transit destination and replaces part of the most heavily used bus route in the system
- provides a "relief valve" transfer into downtown via C-Line for those north burnaby passengers willing to travel three more stops instead of fighting with the herd on the Broadway platform. I'd do it.
- Networking with the C-Line will increase ridership in and of itself as we make it easier to get around on the _system _ as a whole. It also makes sure we get our full money's worth from our new $2B toy.
- extending the M-Line as far as Arbutus bypasses all the lights along Broadway, much improving Rapid Bus service to UBC
- gives Broadway merchants back their curb lanes

I believe making the Evergreen line a priority at any platform length is a horribly inefficient use of taxpayer $$$. M Line west first, then upgrade C-Line if passenger loads require. Then look at extending Expo, and only then look at replacing 97B and "duplicating" WCE routes with Skytrain service.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by giallo

It's true. Cambie is a pretty disappointing street. I lived on 18th and Heather, a mere three blocks from Cambie, and I'd only use it for the liquor store, Black Dog video (relocated to Commercial) and the Safeway. Besides those three stores, I never shopped anywhere there. The City needs to seriously look at Cambie and start reevaluating the zoning laws now that they have a $1.9b track running underneath it. A mixture of retail, office and residential from City Hall all the way up to 41st should do the trick.

same, i lived at 22nd and heather and aside from the beer & wine store and the video store, never had much reason go head to cambie except to maybe catch the 15 downtown. I do regret that I'm not as close to the CL though now that I've moved. Would be a real time saver to be able to just walk to the station instead of having to bus first.

[gillty]

Originally Posted by deasine

No no no... remember the mac is the one that can run windows... so there are more possibilities on the mac =)

If you think from a cost perspective, the SkyTrain is really an apple and Canada Line is the PC.

the pc can also run OSX so its the PC that wins again
my notebook is an Hp running snow leopard aka Hackintosh works magnificently (updates and all) and costs half the price of a MBP with similar specs.
<3 Windows 7 & Snow Leopard
(sorry offtopic but couldn't help but chime in )

ontopic again:
cambie is so meh, I have family around 28th and cambie, and 20th and Cambie
so I'm around the area alot and the only reason any of my family goes to Cambie Village is for the starbucks (starbucks also = meh lol)
otherwise they avoid the area and go to Oakridge or Pacific Centre if they need anything

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Yeah, maybe Cambie should class themselves up a bit. Except for that dutch breakfast shoe place, and the new Stela's, everything there is pretty much generic ethnic food you can find in ANY neighbourhood in the entire lower mainland (even dutch breakfast is spreading everywhere). Every time I've eaten in the area, I've been more disappointed than amazed. It's no Commercial Drive, that's for sure.

There's just not enough there. Except the theater, there is no real draw to going to the area in the first place. What's Cambie's "Wonderbucks"? The cycle shop? Even the number of shops and restaurants is low. If you are feeling picky, Cambie is not the place to go.

It's still summer time, and people want patios so they can have a nice beer outside. There's very little in the way of patios on Cambie, hence horrible summer business. I bet it picks up in the winter.

And before anyone says its because the Stations are too far away I ask why is Commercial Drive such a huge smashing success, when most of the good stuff is far from Commercial-Broadway station? I walk all the time, and so do many, from Commercial-Broadway all the way to Venables and back, that's easily twice as far as walking between the 2 Canada Line Stations at the Cambie village.

Cambie should be redeveloped to give it the feel of Commercial crossed with Yaletown. Build some new buildings, with rental apartments up top and commercial space bellow, but further back from the street so that the restaurants can all have patios. But the area should be given more of a residential focus, too many of the businesses are a waste of space with no residential properties above. Move more people into the area, and the business will follow. Cambie has a lot of potential, but it takes some effort. They can't just sit back and think business will roll in just because the Canada Line is finished. Canada Line + ???? = profit. Cambie needs to find their ????

theres a great new store called WALRUS has some cool home accessories and such - it was opened by two former inform (gastown) employees they have a good selection of stuff not always seen here in the city

but i agree other than that its pretty generic and has no appeal or drawing power and is really just aimed at local residents

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by deasine

I don't know, I don't think the Evergreen Line would be built like the Canada Line. It wouldn't make any sense for them to not build 80 metre platforms.

But if it is the difference between being able to build it vs. delaying it for 5-10 years, then I think we should happily take the Evergreen with (e.g.) 50m platforms that max out at 4 x MKII trains. And this is exactly what the situation was with the Canada Line, and how quickly we all forget when we grumble about the short platforms and boring decor. Nobody was willing to pay the extra money for Millennium-like opulence on the Canada Line. At least the Canada Line is easily expandable to the equivalent of 4 x MKII trains. At least we have that.

---

On a separate note, I recall there was an earlier discussion that the Canada Line has not enough track crossover switches compared to the Expo/M lines. But I was looking at lightrail's track diagram, and it appears that the Canada Line has crossover switches just as often as the other lines - one crossover per 3 stations.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Zassk

But if it is the difference between being able to build it vs. delaying it for 5-10 years, then I think we should happily take the Evergreen with (e.g.) 50m platforms that max out at 4 x MKII trains. And this is exactly what the situation was with the Canada Line, and how quickly we all forget when we grumble about the short platforms and boring decor. Nobody was willing to pay the extra money for Millennium-like opulence on the Canada Line. At least the Canada Line is easily expandable to the equivalent of 4 x MKII trains. At least we have that.

---

On a separate note, I recall there was an earlier discussion that the Canada Line has not enough track crossover switches compared to the Expo/M lines. But I was looking at lightrail's track diagram, and it appears that the Canada Line has crossover switches just as often as the other lines - one crossover per 3 stations.

If only the NDP had built both Evergreen and Broadway West together with the Millennium Line as planned....high aesthetics, high capacity, a long-lasting system, and all at the same time at a relatively low cost compared to today. If only...

Considering that the Evergreen Line station platforms will either be elevated or at-grade, building it to the full 80-metre length shouldn't cost too much as there are only 6 stations on the line and 7 max. At the most it would only increase the cost of the total project by marginal proportions, assuming we go for another station cookie cutter design (my expectations for aesthetics are quite low for the Evergreen after what we've seen with the Canada Line).

But note that if both Evergreen and Broadway West are SkyTrain, Evergreen trains will begin at the western terminus of the Broadway West extension and not at Lougheed. Longer full-length platforms may be warranted for Evergreen.

[Metro-One]

What would be nice is if they made 2 of the 6 0r 7 stations to high aesthetics and the rest more cookie cutter. Not every station needs to be a marvel, but having a couple on every line in important areas helps. The primary station in Coquitlam and the primary station in port moody should be built with high and unique aesthetics but the rest akin to that of the elevated stations in Richmond.

And to be honest, I find nothing wrong with the Canada-Line stations, I find them simply yet elegant. 99% of train stations in Japan, for example, are nothing more than platforms with roofs over top of them. They are very cookie cutter. Only the main hub stations are given any unique designs and art.

Again, the people in our region are so annoying, they never stop complaining.

Vancouver's guide to building infastructure.

Step One - Complain about which line should get built first (time frame, decades)

Step Two - When line is chosen, complain about which alignment should be chosen (time frame, years)

Step Three - Complain about alignment that has been chosen (time frame, endless)

Step Four - Debate and complain over technology chosen (time frame, endless)

Step Five - Complain that to build the line costs far to much money. If to expensive, it will never get built or ruling party is voted out of office.

Step Six - Solution, build line as cheep as possible.

Step Seven - Endless complaining during construction.

Step Eight - Line opens, complain about how under built and cookie cutter line is (time frame, endless). Why did the government not spend more money?

Step Nine - Repeat.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

What would be nice is if they made 2 of the 6 0r 7 stations to high aesthetics and the rest more cookie cutter. Not every station needs to be a marvel, but having a couple on every line in important areas helps. The primary station in Coquitlam and the primary station in port moody should be built with high and unique aesthetics but the rest akin to that of the elevated stations in Richmond.

And to be honest, I find nothing wrong with the Canada-Line stations, I find them simply yet elegant. 99% of train stations in Japan, for example, are nothing more than platforms with roofs over top of them. They are very cookie cutter. Only the main hub stations are given any unique designs and art.

Again, the people in our region are so annoying, they never stop complaining.

Vancouver's guide to building infastructure.

Step One - Complain about which line should get built first (time frame, decades)

Step Two - When line is chosen, complain about which alignment should be chosen (time frame, years)

Step Three - Complain about alignment that has been chosen (time frame, endless)

Step Four - Debate and complain over technology chosen (time frame, endless)

Step Five - Complain that to build the line costs far to much money. If to expensive, it will never get built or ruling party is voted out of office.

Step Six - Solution, build line as cheep as possible.

Step Seven - Endless complaining during construction.

Step Eight - Line opens, complain about how under built and cookie cutter line is (time frame, endless). Why did the government not spend more money?

Step Nine - Repeat.

It's called democracy and occurs wherever governments are freely elected. Get used to it.

[Metro-One]

No, it is called far to much bureaucracy. Of course this situation happens every where but it is amplified in BC.

If it were like this every where there is democracy, then all the metro lines in the world would be built with 40m platforms.

and even if this is simply an everywhere by-product of democracy can't you just say something "that is so true", or "yep, we are damed if we do, damed if we don't" and not always countering my posts with something negative or left handed?