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  #2281  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
The best place for it, in my view, is in the median of the 417. Moodie already has a three-span bridge (built when the MTO briefly had a notion of creating a metro for Ottawa in the 1970s) that can easily accommodate the Transitway. Since Moodie is going to be a desolate, isolated station wherever it is built, it doesn't particularly matter that it will be in the middle of the freeway. It could even be made as an island platform using cross-overs to save on costs (and once it is LRT, it won't matter). Then all that needs to be done is to get the MTO to do a lane swap west of Moodie and make the lanes nearest the median into bus lanes rather than using the shoulder lanes for that purpose.

If it goes on the north side, they'll likely have to reconfigure/rebuild the interchange and the intersection with Corkstown Road (again), as well as reconstruct the stormwater ponds (again).
The problem is that the Transitway is on the north side to the east (Bayshore) and the west (Kanata Town Centre)... if you put it in the median or the south side it will increase the cost (bridges/tunnels) or make for awkward routing/lots of lane changing...
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  #2282  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2009, 2:47 PM
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City would have to pay $1.7M GST on LRT settlement
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/City+would+have+settlement/1983715/story.html

BY PATRICK DARE , THE OTTAWA CITIZENSEPTEMBER 11, 2009 10:31 AMCOMMENTS (1)


STORYPHOTOS ( 1 )



Posters displayed the plans.
Photograph by: Pat McGrath, The Ottawa Citizen
OTTAWA — Ottawa taxpayers will have to pay $1.7 million in GST as part of the city's $36.7 million lawsuit settlement for the light-rail project that was cancelled.

City council was told Friday morning that the settlement payment to the consortium that was to build the line can either be paid in a lump sum or in two instalments. If the two-payment option is pursued, the city would have to pay interest.

Councillors started the meeting with a debate over whether the emergency meeting should be held in public. They voted 19-2 to have the session in public.

The city's lawyer hired to handle the case, Peter Doody, said the city may be able to recover the GST in the settlement federal government.

Doody urged council to take the offer.

"This is a very reasonable settlement for the city," said Doody.

The settlement works out to about $40 per Ottawan or $100 per household.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
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  #2283  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2009, 4:06 PM
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Hunter on a War path.

Apperantly Gord Hunter wants the city to reject the offer and fight this. Says he would fight it all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada, I think this was in the Ottawa Sun.

How much $$ would be spent fighting this to the SCoC? Maybe we could have a special levy/tax for streching this as Hunter wants. Let's loose more credibility as a city and sink lower financially.
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  #2284  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2009, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
The problem is that the Transitway is on the north side to the east (Bayshore) and the west (Kanata Town Centre)... if you put it in the median or the south side it will increase the cost (bridges/tunnels) .
Ah, well, about that... if it goes on the north side a new underpass of Moodie is required ultimately anyway for LRT, and you also then either have to reconfigure the interchange* or provide underpasses of the W offramp, the N-W onramp and the S-W onramp (*at the very least, due to the requirement to raise the grade of Moodie for the underpass, the ramps will have to climb much more than they do now).

Additionally, and this is where things get interesting, the powers-that-be have figured (in the April 2008 TMP update report) that a flyover will be needed east of March Road to get from a future depressed northside Transitway west of there (from Terry Fox) all the way over the Queensway so that eastbound buses can make use of the bus lane that has been built for them (i.e. just like at Blair). Recall further that the 417 (eastbound) is climbing already east of March Road, so this would make the buses have to climb even more. By contrast, a median transitway would require only an underpass of the westbound lanes of the 417 - but that would then remove the requirement to go under the westbound offramps, so that's a virtual wash. It also avoids the fact/problem that once LRT goes to Kanata the flyover would be useless, and no new overpass of the Beachburg subdivision would be required for LRT either.

So if you add it all up, a median transitway requires an overpass of the westbound 417 near the 416 interchange and an underpass of them at March. In contrast, the northside transitway option requires a new underpass at Moodie and a rebuild of the rest of the interchange on the northside, a single-lane flyover at March, and an underpass of the westbound offramp (at a very skew angle) at March. In the long term, use of the median makes the most sense.

Quote:
or make for awkward routing/lots of lane changing..
And that I wouldn't worry about. For one, a northside transitway east of Moodie will already have awkward eastbound routing. For another, the newly widened 417 has asphalt as far as the eye can see. There is so much capacity out there now (and constrained capacity east of the 416) that changing lanes is just not going to be an issue for years to come - and that problem would be resolved with an underpass near March anyway once the section to Terry Fox is built.
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  #2285  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2009, 6:53 PM
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Interesting points Dado! There's still things like the Eagleson Park and Ride that needs to be served, how the March Road BRT will meet with the new system, the transition from Kanata Town Centre BRT to bus lanes (and to north side transitway post 2031), so I'm interested to see what the consultants will say about all this. The Kanata Ave overpass already seems to have room for BRT, but I'm not sure how it will work on Eagleson/March. If they forget about the March Road flyover (and temporarily use awkward routing for eastbound buses until the full Moodie-March transitway/LRT is built) I still think a north side transitway is best, but the whole March/Eagleson/417/Campeau/Transitway interchange is going to be quite the project.



by the way, there are a few more studies on Alex Cullen's website for the project.

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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
the bayshore/moodie transitway boards are available on alex cullen's website
http://alexcullen.ca/

look under environmental assessments in bay ward, near the top
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  #2286  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2009, 7:41 PM
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http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/ptac/2009/09-17/agendaindex18.htm

Pedestrian and Transit Advisory Committee
Comité consultatif sur les piétons
et le transport en commun

AGENDA 18
ORDRE DU JOUR 18

Thursday, 17 September 2009, 7:00 p.m.

ITEMS OF BUSINESS
POINTS À L’ORDRE DU JOUR

2. CONSIDERATION OF MEMBER EADE’S PAPER ON
IMPROVEMENTS TO THE DOWNTOWN OTTAWA TRANSIT TUNNEL
EXAMEN DU DOCUMENT SUR LES AMÉLIORATIONS AU TUNNEL DE TRANSPORT EN COMMUN DANS LE CENTRE-VILLE D'OTTAWA SOUMIS PAR MEMBRE EADE
Member / Membre R. Eade
[ 10 min. ]


Any details Richard? Can you post your presentation after the meeting?
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  #2287  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2009, 8:31 PM
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Here's an idea I have come up with, although it is contingent on redevelopment of the low-value Greenbelt lands (ideal zoning would be industrial or institutional, similar to the Nortel campuses). The SW quadrant - around the Baseline Road extension (which would be a short causeway over the swamp) - would not be developable. The road network is just a draft that I came up with.

Dark red = Elevated Transitway/LRT (over the Queensway and OCRR)
Medium red = At-grade Transitway/LRT
Light red = Depressed Transitway/LRT (tunnel under the 416/417 interchange and underpass of Moodie Drive)
Blue = Moodie Station

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  #2288  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2009, 10:01 PM
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^ The problem with that is that Ottawa already has more than enough employment lands... also I wouldn't say it's "low-value" lands, it's class 1-3 agricultural land (i.e. prime agriculture in the Provincial Policy Statement)
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  #2289  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2009, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Interesting points Dado! There's still things like the Eagleson Park and Ride that needs to be served, how the March Road BRT will meet with the new system, the transition from Kanata Town Centre BRT to bus lanes (and to north side transitway post 2031), so I'm interested to see what the consultants will say about all this. The Kanata Ave overpass already seems to have room for BRT, but I'm not sure how it will work on Eagleson/March. If they forget about the March Road flyover (and temporarily use awkward routing for eastbound buses until the full Moodie-March transitway/LRT is built) I still think a north side transitway is best, but the whole March/Eagleson/417/Campeau/Transitway interchange is going to be quite the project.
Unfortunately, the current planning exercise is limited to the Bayshore-Moodie section so it doesn't look at the whole West Transitway corridor and the consultants therefore won't have anything to say about this right now ("beyond the scope of this study" they'll say - even though the study will affect/limit options further west). The funny thing though is they already did this years ago and determined on a north side transitway all the way from Bayshore to Terry Fox, but in the 2008 TMP update they seem to have latched on to the MTO's willingness to fund bus lanes and inserted a flyover instead.

I can't imagine a March Road transitway ever going ahead - it's just too dumb and too easy to be struck from the projects list in the future. The rest of the work at March Road will be limited to inserting underpasses of the offramp and March itself as well as sorting out drainage; there probably won't be much to do with the Campeau intersection itself. I suspect an access ramp would be built to join into the road behind the OPP station. As for the Park & Ride, I don't really know what they'd do about that and I don't think they do either. In some ways, putting the transitway (and especially LRT) in the median until somewhere west of March would be far better since it would more than halve the walking distance between the Park&Ride and the station while also removing one more underpass (March) from having to be constructed - there's definitely enough room for a pair of tracks/lanes in the median under the March Road overpass either side of the central support pier(s). A pedestrian overpass to the station from the P&R could also be built and it's not like moving the station is going to have much of a TOD effect one way or another.

Here's a shot of March/Eagleson and what it would look like (approximately) under the 2008 TMP update in blue and with a median set-up in magenta. The existing EA would be like the blue until it splits, remaining on the north side between the Queensway and Corkstown Road. You can see the effect of the previous EA study in that there is a gap between the westbound off ramp and the N-to-W onramp that contrasts with the lack of such a gap in the southwest quadrant of the interchange. Since the 2008 TMP update contained no mention of an underpass of the N-to-W onramp my assumption is that the Transitway will pass through that gap, under March and then continue westwards, passing under Kanata Ave at the pre-built underpass.

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  #2290  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2009, 8:31 PM
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When Hunt Club Road is extended, are there any plans for a Park and Ride facility in the Russell/Hunt Club area? It would surely catch a very large number of commuters on the 417E corridor, with Route 98 not needing to be extended much farther. There is currently no large Park and Ride on that corridor, and the small ones are limited to rural express routes.

I would suggest a D98 be created during rush hours that remains on Hunt Club (with few or no stops until getting onto the Transitway - perhaps one at Conroy and one at Hawthorne) rather than Cahill/Lorry Greenberg/Blohm which would be more attractive to those who use that Park and Ride.
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  #2291  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2009, 9:42 PM
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Anyone know why the Delcan report shows $45M/km for a 7 m bore tunnel (38.48 m^2) and $125M/km for a 10 m bore tunnel (78.54 m^2) which is about twice the area. Should it not be $90M/km?
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  #2292  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2009, 9:51 PM
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Anyone know why the Delcan report shows $45M/km for a 7 m bore tunnel (38.48 m^2) and $125M/km for a 10 m bore tunnel (78.54 m^2) which is about twice the area. Should it not be $90M/km?
Which report? Do you have a link and page/section? Is it comparing a dual-bore tunnel system (two of 7 m) against a single-bore tunnel (one of 10 m)? Are these total costs (i.e. with stations) averaged out on a per kilometre basis, or are these actually tunnelling costs?


As for your question, larger diameter bores require thicker walls to resist earth pressure, they'll take longer to drill out, they may need to be dug deeper, and so forth.
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  #2293  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2009, 11:23 PM
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Which report? Do you have a link and page/section? Is it comparing a dual-bore tunnel system (two of 7 m) against a single-bore tunnel (one of 10 m)? Are these total costs (i.e. with stations) averaged out on a per kilometre basis, or are these actually tunnelling costs?


As for your question, larger diameter bores require thicker walls to resist earth pressure, they'll take longer to drill out, they may need to be dug deeper, and so forth.
Sorry, my bad, it's 6 m, not 7 m diameter bore. That explains it.

I was looking at p.139 (in the pdf) "Development of a Downtown Transit Solution and Network Implications, April 2008"
http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...ntown%20Transit%20Final%2014%20April.pdf
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  #2294  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2009, 12:30 AM
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Took a picture of the new part of the Transitway from the Richmond Road overpass. I wondered why so much asphalt (ergo money) was spent on paving the "sidewalks" when neither pedestrians nor cyclists are allowed to use them.

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  #2295  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2009, 1:04 AM
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Took a picture of the new part of the Transitway from the Richmond Road overpass. I wondered why so much asphalt (ergo money) was spent on paving the "sidewalks" when neither pedestrians nor cyclists are allowed to use them.
They're not "sidewalks" - they're paved shoulders for storing snow and parking buses that are broken down or have run out of fuel, as well as for any maintenance vehicles to park. Only in emergencies would they be used by pedestrians. The curbs are (or should be) "low, mountable" to allow buses to get up over them (kind of like how cars park all over the "pavements" in Europe).

Did you see if it was in operation yet?

What gets me about the section below is that it has a "kink" in it after it leaves the Richmond Road offramp underpass (beside the high lamp pole) - you would have thought that with all the space available they could have avoided such a thing.


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  #2296  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2009, 2:17 AM
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But this way they get to re-do the structures when ever they FINALLY convert it to rail. In my opinion, the designer should have been fired for submitting this.
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  #2297  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2009, 2:22 AM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/ptac/2009/09-17/agendaindex18.htm

Pedestrian and Transit Advisory Committee
Comité consultatif sur les piétons
et le transport en commun

AGENDA 18
ORDRE DU JOUR 18

Thursday, 17 September 2009, 7:00 p.m.

ITEMS OF BUSINESS
POINTS À L’ORDRE DU JOUR

2. CONSIDERATION OF MEMBER EADE’S PAPER ON
IMPROVEMENTS TO THE DOWNTOWN OTTAWA TRANSIT TUNNEL
EXAMEN DU DOCUMENT SUR LES AMÉLIORATIONS AU TUNNEL DE TRANSPORT EN COMMUN DANS LE CENTRE-VILLE D'OTTAWA SOUMIS PAR MEMBRE EADE
Member / Membre R. Eade
[ 10 min. ]


Any details Richard? Can you post your presentation after the meeting?
No need to wait for Thursday. Here is basically what I intend to present. I don’t think there will be any surprises in what I’m going to suggest on Thursday evening. Most of the ideas have been posted here already. My point in bringing them before the PTAC is to try to get staff and Councilors thinking that there might be other options. I am beginning with the assumptions that there will be a tunnel and that it will carry rail.

These suggestions are not meant to be an all or nothing option. This presentation is a collection of ideas which can be implemented on their own or collectively. If one idea is deemed to have merit, but not another, then the one can be further examined by Staff and perhaps integrated into the DOTT plan.


Starting from the west, I will be suggesting that a modified Tunneys Pasture Station NOT be the temporary terminus of the LRT; instead, I would like to see the line continued to Westboro Station.



Notice that the bus ramp (blue) is west of Churchill; leaving space for track switching and train storage – something which doesn’t seem to have been taken into account for the Tunneys Pasture plan since there is only about 120 metres between the station and the bus ramp. In Staff’s plan, the only switching room will be east of the station so only one side platform will be used for both directions.

At Westboro, it might be possible to ‘borrow’ some of the existing parking lot from Health Canada for temporary bus lay-up space; thereby freeing up the existing ramp space both at Westboro and Tunneys for redevelopment.

Although it is not clearly shown in the illustration, there is a hydro distribution area immediately beside the Westboro Station (between the station and the Metropolis Tower) – which is not the case for Tunneys Pasture.

The increased length of the rail line will help make it more viable operationally; and will justify more people being transferred to the train so fewer buses will continue east of Westboro - none ideally. Conversely, Staff plans to still run buses along the residential section of Scott east of Tunneys to avoid passengers having to transfer to the train only to transfer at the next stop or two.

Tunneys Pasture is almost exclusively a commuter destination with very little full-day ridership potential whereas Westboro Station provides train access for the pedestrian-oriented Westboro Village and convenient rapid transit for the relatively densely populated areas north of the station.

The Consultant did not look any farther than Tunneys Pasture for a terminus since that was the extent of their mandate. I, however, did not have such a restriction.

There may be opposition to extending the line to Westboro since it could be viewed as completely abandoning any chance of routing the train along Carling.


I will propose that the configuration around Bayview could be simplified by NOT rebuilding the Transit Bridge over the O-Train tracks and a bi-level station.



In the Staff plan, it is clear that the existing Transitway Bridge is not wide enough to facilitate an upper level station with a central platform; this bridge will be removed and rebuilt. Also, there will be a fairly long ‘tail’ of ramp structure continuing east of the Station so that the tracks can merge.

I will be suggesting that if the bridge needs to be removed, then it should not be rebuilt and the tracks should be merged before the Bayview Station. This will require a new structure for the train to pass under Bayview Road. (In the above diagram I have pulled the station south by running the train under Scott as well, but this would not be necessary; it is just an illustration of how the station could have direct access to both sides of Scott.)

This has the potential of simplifying the system geometry and reducing its construction cost. It also consolidates lands which have future development potential and maintains the link to Gatineau. However, there will likely be objections to having to move the recently laid water main under Bayview Road.


My next suggestion is that the tunnel enter from the west under Slater and not, as Staff recommend, under Albert.



Staff has tried to avoid running the train under the City-owned Escarpment Lands and instead recommends that an expensive structure be built to run the train along under Old Wellington Street, which will be used as the collector for the new towers. Also, taking the track north by one block to Albert creates reversing curves in the line at approximately where the train should be traveling its fastest.

By taking the train along a virtually straight path from LeBreton under Slater, there arises a perfect opportunity to fully integrate the new station with the new Central Library Building. Integration can also include the power supply vault as well as all ventilation equipment and ducting.

As well, having the station under the Library can allow one access to be directly at the Ottawa Technical High School Development Lands and be closer to the majority of the residential towers which lie south of Slater.


Continuing across downtown, I strongly suggest that there be another downtown station added.



You will notice that I have also altered the route a bit in the above map, but that is not the key point here; the extra station is. An extra station will distribute the passenger loads, and provide closer, more convenient access to the system and to the riders’ destinations.

In my mind, this is a key point. It is one which will be very difficult to implement later, if not impossible. The current spacing of the Staff recommended stations does not leave sufficient room for an extra station to be added once it is found to be needed. An extra station is an added cost, but I believe it is not a place to scrimp.

There will probably be resistance to adding an extra station based on its cost and the fear that it will slow down the system. Staff will declare that their analysis shows that the downtown is well covered by stations: In fact, it is minimally covered.


The route change in the previous diagram was made to avoid a deep bedrock valley under the north end of the Rideau Centre.



By moving the tunnel to the south, a technically challenging and high risk area can be avoided. It also respects the historical passenger traffic patterns which have been built up over decades. This prevents the potential of overcrowding Rideau Street with the passengers from both the ‘local’ and the ‘regional’ routes and maintains the functionality of having both a Mackenzie-King Station and a Laurier Station.

It might be brought up that the north station allows direct vertical transfers between the trains and the buses on Rideau. If the extra station is added under the War Memorial, the vertical transfer can be done there where there are wide sidewalks, relieving Rideau Street of overcrowding.


Another thing to consider about the realignment as suggested is that it could help minimize surface disruption during tunnel and station construction.



By restricting the majority of digging to areas which are currently green-space, undeveloped, or to be redeveloped and minimizing the digging within road-ways, existing traffic and transit can be better maintained.

For example, if the station were dug as part of the digging of the new Central Library Building foundation, Albert Street would not need to be closed for an extended period of time. Closing Albert will severely affect both traffic and transit.

Also, there should be better coordination between the construction of the rapid transit system and other projects, public and private. By thinking ahead and planning, costs can be reduced and less problem mitigation will be needed.


I am also suggesting that the tunnel be extended east at least as far as Hurdman. This removes a major physical barrier which cuts the Lees area into two.



By extending the tunnel under the river, the construction of the $40 million Nicholas Connector Bridge is not needed for buses since they can continue to use the existing Transitway Bridge. Once the change-over to rail has been completed, the Transitway and the bridge can be released to general traffic as an extension of King Edward Avenue. This ties in very well with the preferred option of a redevelopment charett done for the Mann-Nicholas Gateway area. This option called for a second underpass under the 417 but this would not be necessary if the existing Transitway underpass was available. By reviewing the plans for the surrounding areas, the new rail system can be used to facilitate redevelopment and remove barriers.

Staff will argue that digging through the Lees and Hurdman areas will disturb contaminated soil. To that I would refer them to the City’s Brownfield Policy which aims to rehabilitate contaminated areas around rapid transit stations. The clean-up will be done sometime, why not now?


Probably the easiest and most efficient method of extending the tunnel is to use two tunnel boring machines (TBMs); one would be specialized for boring through hard rock; and the other an earth pressure balanced TBM (EPB TBM) which can tunnel through loose material, leaving a tunnel liner for support.



By using two specialized TBMs, the tunnels can be aligned optimally, while minimizing the surface disruption for traffic and transit.


Lastly, I suggest that the probable location of the new LRT Maintenance Facility might prompt a review of the Staff recommended alignment between the Train Station and St. Laurent Station.



There might be a good case for bringing the train south of the VIA Station so that it can better interface with the Cumberland Transitway Connector, the Train Yards retail and office area, as well as the new Train Yard. Another possibility is a future station to serve the Federally-owned Tremblay Lands.


It should be stressed that these are, for the most part, independent ideas. For example, the train could be extended to Westboro without any need to change the alignment east of Hurdman. These ideas may be accepted or rejected individually. However, I think that the suggested changes are based on new information that was not generally available when Council approved the Staff recommended DOTT alignment. Given this new information, I believe that the DOTT plan can be improved for the benefit of the riders; current and future.
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Old Posted Sep 14, 2009, 12:55 PM
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Could someone please point me to a map or some way of figuring out where Tallwood, Knoxdale, Hunt-club station, Longfields, Strandherd, Marketplace and Chapman mills stations will be along the Baseline to BTC BRT route? I'm trying to figure out the distance between each station.

Thanks.
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  #2299  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2009, 2:02 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
No need to wait for Thursday. Here is basically what I intend to present. I don’t think there will be any surprises in what I’m going to suggest on Thursday evening. Most of the ideas have been posted here already. My point in bringing them before the PTAC is to try to get staff and Councilors thinking that there might be other options. I am beginning with the assumptions that there will be a tunnel and that it will carry rail.

These suggestions are not meant to be an all or nothing option. This presentation is a collection of ideas which can be implemented on their own or collectively. If one idea is deemed to have merit, but not another, then the one can be further examined by Staff and perhaps integrated into the DOTT plan.


Starting from the west, I will be suggesting that a modified Tunneys Pasture Station NOT be the temporary terminus of the LRT; instead, I would like to see the line continued to Westboro Station.



Notice that the bus ramp (blue) is west of Churchill; leaving space for track switching and train storage – something which doesn’t seem to have been taken into account for the Tunneys Pasture plan since there is only about 120 metres between the station and the bus ramp. In Staff’s plan, the only switching room will be east of the station so only one side platform will be used for both directions.

At Westboro, it might be possible to ‘borrow’ some of the existing parking lot from Health Canada for temporary bus lay-up space; thereby freeing up the existing ramp space both at Westboro and Tunneys for redevelopment.

Although it is not clearly shown in the illustration, there is a hydro distribution area immediately beside the Westboro Station (between the station and the Metropolis Tower) – which is not the case for Tunneys Pasture.

The increased length of the rail line will help make it more viable operationally; and will justify more people being transferred to the train so fewer buses will continue east of Westboro - none ideally. Conversely, Staff plans to still run buses along the residential section of Scott east of Tunneys to avoid passengers having to transfer to the train only to transfer at the next stop or two.

Tunneys Pasture is almost exclusively a commuter destination with very little full-day ridership potential whereas Westboro Station provides train access for the pedestrian-oriented Westboro Village and convenient rapid transit for the relatively densely populated areas north of the station.

The Consultant did not look any farther than Tunneys Pasture for a terminus since that was the extent of their mandate. I, however, did not have such a restriction.

There may be opposition to extending the line to Westboro since it could be viewed as completely abandoning any chance of routing the train along Carling.


I will propose that the configuration around Bayview could be simplified by NOT rebuilding the Transit Bridge over the O-Train tracks and a bi-level station.



In the Staff plan, it is clear that the existing Transitway Bridge is not wide enough to facilitate an upper level station with a central platform; this bridge will be removed and rebuilt. Also, there will be a fairly long ‘tail’ of ramp structure continuing east of the Station so that the tracks can merge.

I will be suggesting that if the bridge needs to be removed, then it should not be rebuilt and the tracks should be merged before the Bayview Station. This will require a new structure for the train to pass under Bayview Road. (In the above diagram I have pulled the station south by running the train under Scott as well, but this would not be necessary; it is just an illustration of how the station could have direct access to both sides of Scott.)

This has the potential of simplifying the system geometry and reducing its construction cost. It also consolidates lands which have future development potential and maintains the link to Gatineau. However, there will likely be objections to having to move the recently laid water main under Bayview Road.


My next suggestion is that the tunnel enter from the west under Slater and not, as Staff recommend, under Albert.



Staff has tried to avoid running the train under the City-owned Escarpment Lands and instead recommends that an expensive structure be built to run the train along under Old Wellington Street, which will be used as the collector for the new towers. Also, taking the track north by one block to Albert creates reversing curves in the line at approximately where the train should be traveling its fastest.

By taking the train along a virtually straight path from LeBreton under Slater, there arises a perfect opportunity to fully integrate the new station with the new Central Library Building. Integration can also include the power supply vault as well as all ventilation equipment and ducting.

As well, having the station under the Library can allow one access to be directly at the Ottawa Technical High School Development Lands and be closer to the majority of the residential towers which lie south of Slater.


Continuing across downtown, I strongly suggest that there be another downtown station added.



You will notice that I have also altered the route a bit in the above map, but that is not the key point here; the extra station is. An extra station will distribute the passenger loads, and provide closer, more convenient access to the system and to the riders’ destinations.

In my mind, this is a key point. It is one which will be very difficult to implement later, if not impossible. The current spacing of the Staff recommended stations does not leave sufficient room for an extra station to be added once it is found to be needed. An extra station is an added cost, but I believe it is not a place to scrimp.

There will probably be resistance to adding an extra station based on its cost and the fear that it will slow down the system. Staff will declare that their analysis shows that the downtown is well covered by stations: In fact, it is minimally covered.


The route change in the previous diagram was made to avoid a deep bedrock valley under the north end of the Rideau Centre.



By moving the tunnel to the south, a technically challenging and high risk area can be avoided. It also respects the historical passenger traffic patterns which have been built up over decades. This prevents the potential of overcrowding Rideau Street with the passengers from both the ‘local’ and the ‘regional’ routes and maintains the functionality of having both a Mackenzie-King Station and a Laurier Station.

It might be brought up that the north station allows direct vertical transfers between the trains and the buses on Rideau. If the extra station is added under the War Memorial, the vertical transfer can be done there where there are wide sidewalks, relieving Rideau Street of overcrowding.


Another thing to consider about the realignment as suggested is that it could help minimize surface disruption during tunnel and station construction.



By restricting the majority of digging to areas which are currently green-space, undeveloped, or to be redeveloped and minimizing the digging within road-ways, existing traffic and transit can be better maintained.

For example, if the station were dug as part of the digging of the new Central Library Building foundation, Albert Street would not need to be closed for an extended period of time. Closing Albert will severely affect both traffic and transit.

Also, there should be better coordination between the construction of the rapid transit system and other projects, public and private. By thinking ahead and planning, costs can be reduced and less problem mitigation will be needed.


I am also suggesting that the tunnel be extended east at least as far as Hurdman. This removes a major physical barrier which cuts the Lees area into two.



By extending the tunnel under the river, the construction of the $40 million Nicholas Connector Bridge is not needed for buses since they can continue to use the existing Transitway Bridge. Once the change-over to rail has been completed, the Transitway and the bridge can be released to general traffic as an extension of King Edward Avenue. This ties in very well with the preferred option of a redevelopment charett done for the Mann-Nicholas Gateway area. This option called for a second underpass under the 417 but this would not be necessary if the existing Transitway underpass was available. By reviewing the plans for the surrounding areas, the new rail system can be used to facilitate redevelopment and remove barriers.

Staff will argue that digging through the Lees and Hurdman areas will disturb contaminated soil. To that I would refer them to the City’s Brownfield Policy which aims to rehabilitate contaminated areas around rapid transit stations. The clean-up will be done sometime, why not now?


Probably the easiest and most efficient method of extending the tunnel is to use two tunnel boring machines (TBMs); one would be specialized for boring through hard rock; and the other an earth pressure balanced TBM (EPB TBM) which can tunnel through loose material, leaving a tunnel liner for support.



By using two specialized TBMs, the tunnels can be aligned optimally, while minimizing the surface disruption for traffic and transit.


Lastly, I suggest that the probable location of the new LRT Maintenance Facility might prompt a review of the Staff recommended alignment between the Train Station and St. Laurent Station.



There might be a good case for bringing the train south of the VIA Station so that it can better interface with the Cumberland Transitway Connector, the Train Yards retail and office area, as well as the new Train Yard. Another possibility is a future station to serve the Federally-owned Tremblay Lands.


It should be stressed that these are, for the most part, independent ideas. For example, the train could be extended to Westboro without any need to change the alignment east of Hurdman. These ideas may be accepted or rejected individually. However, I think that the suggested changes are based on new information that was not generally available when Council approved the Staff recommended DOTT alignment. Given this new information, I believe that the DOTT plan can be improved for the benefit of the riders; current and future.
My opinion on each of them:

Extension to Westboro initially - Excellent idea. It wouldn't cost much and would be more favourable from an operational perspective. It eliminates a transfer for a very large number of customers every day as well. Some westbound buses could have the option of continuing along Scott Street to eliminate the necessary transfer to go to Tunney's Pasture as well, at least on weekdays (a possibility is to end the 95, 96 and 97 at Westboro for most customers while adding new routes - say, the 103 and 104 from Barrhaven and Kanata similar to the current 102 from Orleans - the current 103 should be renumbered or realigned onto another existing business local route IMO as it is a major numbering violation). A few west-end routes (notably Routes 6 and 176) could be extended to Westboro as well.

Bayview changes - Not a bad idea, but would be more expensive and the two curves may create operational issues. I personally prefer the current alignment, with an offsetting cross-stacked station once a Gatineau extension is built. Also should a track be created to shift alignments from EB->NB, it would have no access to the station.

Tunnel entrance and downtown - Agreed with all the changes. Costs would be much lower and the additional station is definitely warranted.

Campus to Hurdman - I do agree that it should remain in a tunnel longer. However, the depth of the Rideau River could require either an underwater tube or a steep climb to Hurdman which would be problematic. Maybe a portal just before the Rideau River with a new bridge would be ideal? I agree that the current bridge should be maintained for Transitway use in the construction stage, and converted to regular 2-lane traffic afterward.

Hurdman to St. Laurent - Not a fan of the idea personally, as it creates a prohibitively sharp curve entering St. Laurent Station. Also I prefer keeping the Cumberland corridor on the existing East Transitway as far as Blair before splitting it off.
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Old Posted Sep 14, 2009, 8:53 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
My opinion on each of them:

Extension to Westboro initially - Excellent idea...

Bayview changes - Not a bad idea, but would be more expensive and the two curves may create operational issues. I personally prefer the current alignment, with an offsetting cross-stacked station once a Gatineau extension is built. Also should a track be created to shift alignments from EB->NB, it would have no access to the station.

Tunnel entrance and downtown - Agreed with all the changes...

Campus to Hurdman - I do agree that it should remain in a tunnel longer. However, the depth of the Rideau River could require either an underwater tube or a steep climb to Hurdman which would be problematic. Maybe a portal just before the Rideau River with a new bridge would be ideal? I agree that the current bridge should be maintained for Transitway use in the construction stage, and converted to regular 2-lane traffic afterward.

Hurdman to St. Laurent - Not a fan of the idea personally, as it creates a prohibitively sharp curve entering St. Laurent Station. Also I prefer keeping the Cumberland corridor on the existing East Transitway as far as Blair before splitting it off.
Thanks for the feed-back. I appreciate the comments because it makes me go back and re-look at the things I said.

It looks like we can agree on the Westboro and downtown suggestions so I'll concentrate on Bayview. I'm going over it again because I have probably missed something.

From what I get out of the Staff concept is the following:


I like the straighter path for the main west-east line, but I don't like the way it divides the developable land. Also, the Transitway Bridge is too narrow to feed the central-platform upper level of the bi-level station recommended; thus it needs to be removed and re-built. Also, because the West-East Train is elevated, it will need to be brought down a long ramp to meet the O-Train tracks. Since the O-Train tracks are to the sides of this structure, it will probably wind up being made of concrete. Not only is this expensive, but it means that a 4-track elevated barrier divides the area.

O-Train connections to Gatineau, as I see them, enable north-bound to Gatineau by-passing Bayview, west-bound to Gatineau, and Gatineau to east-bound. I think Staff could also add a Gatineau to south-bound connection which by-passes Bayview, but it is not currently shown. People coming from the west, or going west will need to transfer at Bayview to/from the Gatineau train.

My plan is to remove as much of the barrier and consolidate the developable lands.



In this design there is a short new structure under Bayview Road and Scott Street and a shallow trench between the arena and Scott Street. The bends in the West-East route are shown as being fairly sharp, but the station could also be angled more to straighten out the main-line; this just reduces the developable area. Also, it makes the turn to Gatineau sharper.

The turns in this suggestion are placed at either end of the station where the train will be moving slowly.

There is a single level surface station and the platforms are shared for the two trains. There is a direct west-bound to Gatineau connection which by-passes Bayview as well as the north-bound to Gatineau and east-bound to Gatineau connections. Coming from Gatineau, there are similarily direct conections to any of the three directions with the downtown-bound train by-passing Bayview.

Since the O-Train track is somwhat depressed, it would be possible to keep the tracks below grade and to perhaps cover them at a later time. This also allows development to happen over the tracks.

So what have I missed? Is it just the straighter alignment that appeals for the Staff recommendation? What about the idea of following the current Transitway alignment, NOT rebuilding the bridge, but instead just continue the Scott Trench to meet the O-Train? The two tracks would merge and then share the same station. The plan view would look very much like the Staff plan except the interlining would occur west of the station instead of east and the station would be a single level.



For Lees and Hurdman, I agree that it might not be possible to get the trains up from a tunnel under the river to the overpass crossing Riverside. This is something that needs further study. (Of course, in my world, there could also be an underpass at Riverside instead of an overpass. Then the train wouldn't have to descend to the Train Station.)
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