Mobile Development Thread

[BlessedMobile]

All the notions of a new stadium are exciting but let's look at what we have to offer in locations. The Civic Center property occupies about 30 acres by my measurements from Google Map. The current Ladd Stadium footprint is just over 50 acres. Granted, there is no parking garage at Ladd as there could be at the Civic Center site but giving that property to a seldom used facility would remove our one site with mixed use potential in the downtown area. Forget near USA as land is already at a premium. A stadium should be visible and accessible from the interstate. We could put it out by the BayBears Stadium if we use some creative street closures such as McVay Drive and bought out the land at Grady Buick. Another site that is swampy now but definitely large enough is the parcel off I-65 and I-10; it is bordered on the West by Lee's Lane and to the North by Halls Mill Rd. Let's remember that only government can, in their good conscience, destroy flora and faura for what they would call "economic development." What business can't develop government can and does. Oh yea, a few more thoughts: USA won't have any money for a long time, corporate sponsors will be a minimum, and good old City of Mobile will have to bear most of the cost.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Hey, I think that if you placed the stadium next to the interstate in downtown, that would make for some excellent advertisement space on the side of the stadium, you never know what could happen.

Imagine, build a MASSIVE parking deck, then place the stadium on top, with tailgating plazas surrounding the entire 360 degrees of the stadium.

[BuenaVista]

HABS photo of the Hall Ford House, which dates from 1835- one of the oldest structures remaining on its original site in Mobile.


http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/displayPho...HABS%20ALA,49-MOBI,47-1&displayProfile=0

Larry Posner is a great guy and deserves more accolades for what he has accomplished in Fort Conde Village. When the City of Mobile was in charge several buildings were lost and all the buildings suffered terribly from neglect

[BlessedMobile]

Originally Posted by BuenaVista

HABS photo of the Hall Ford House, which dates from 1835- one of the oldest structures remaining on its original site in Mobile.


http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/displayPho...HABS%20ALA,49-MOBI,47-1&displayProfile=0

Larry Posner is a great guy and deserves more accolades for what he has accomplished in Fort Conde Village. When the City of Mobile was in charge several buildings were lost and all the buildings suffered terribly from neglect

That's the house now being renovated in Fort Conde Village to become a B&B. Larry was all focused on that wrought iron fence shown in the front. Seems that someone in the 30's plastered over the original bricks and brownstone cap; you can see the light shaded plaster below the fence. He wants to return it to its original look but the city wants to keep the plaster finish. Also, on the right end of the fence is now a very large oak which looks to be about five feet tall in the photo. They even had to dig down four feet below the original foundation to put in new plumbing and air conditioning ducts. This will be a showpiece when completed. The ARB has been very reasonable and professional in their dealings with him.

[Bogue]

I agree w/ Blessed that the location's downtown aren't a necessity. To me I think a communal stadium between USA & Mobile (and the Sr. Bowl & the GMAC for that matter) would need to be somewhere between them. That's the reason I thought Springhill. I think I'd rather it go up on the east side of I-65... partly b/c to me that "feels" like the "Mobile" side. I don't know that I'd have a problem w/ having it near the baseball stadium, it's just that I think it'd have more of an impact being on/off Springhill than Govt. USA already operates its medical center just down the street beyond that, so clearly it's in line w/ their operations. That area is also really easy to get to and get out of for most of USA's student body (and for avg. Mobilians as well) w/ US 98 right there in addition to the interstate. A re-working of the intersection w/ I-65 & Springhill/US98 may be needed & perhaps a widening of that section of Old Shell & N. Sage.

Right now that area (Crichton) is an economically depressed part of the city (cheap land) and is in desperate need of revival. I think I'd like to see the purchase of the whole area bordered by I-65, Old Shell, Springhill, & N. Sage. This would give them room to create a large park environment surrounding the stadium & make maximum impact on the surrounding area. While the stadium itself would be somewhat justified to the western section of that, the parking would trail to the east of it in a landscaped parking area (lots of trees and mounded medians to make it nice for tailgating & attractive to look at). Springhill & Moffat/US98 intersect on the NE point of this tract in an area with several shopping centers. The only real problem w/ this location is that the train tracks cut across a small section of it, but they could be re-routed by 50' or so or the issue could be built around fairly easily. They would probably need to be elevated anyway to deal w/ the traffic... but that could be something planned and done when funds became available.

My own personal idea on the stadium's appearance would be to not go w/ the traditional brick that so many others have gone to (b/c it's played & boring & Mobile ain't an industrial-feeling city). I'd like more of a mixed contemporary approach that made the stadium stand out more (but not in a bad way). My idea would be to use a wide lower concourse w/ its visible outer areas sheathed in a frosted blue-green glass (Water Cube-esque) that would make it easier to cool the area's w/in while letting in natural light and would help the primary facade (which would be above it) of the stadium make a stronger impact. Above that first level (about 20' tall), and about 20' in from the outermost wall of the lower concourse, I would like to see them start w/ masonry in a similar vein to that used by the Ridgecrest dorm in Tuscaloosa. That creamy color above the aqua-colored glass would make it look more like a sandcastle on a beach (tying into the aquatic theme in the city & making a great visible impression). You could use almost any exterior style (Art Deco, Roman Coliseum, etc.) that suited your budget. This would essentially be an exterior skin, but wouldn't have to match the internal walking spaces. Lots of openings in the masonry section (majority of the structure) would allow light and air to circulate through the building. Parts of Ole Miss' Vaught-Hemingway are in the vein of what I'm thinking in terms of this upper section. Virginia Tech also uses a variation of this idea. FSU uses a variation that's stylistically more-in line w/ what I'm seeing in my head, but they use brick instead.

Surrounding that you'd have room for about 50-100 feet of planting area & greenspace (lots of room for Azaleas to pay homage to the city... and Springhill, for that matter... while making a very strong visible impact from the interstate). During the Azalea season, this could be a central point for many events b/c of its easy parking situation & ease of entrance/exit. USA & the bowls aren't going to need more than 50K anytime soon, so the endzones would stay open. I say continue the concourse level around one endzone (using the same aqua-colored frosted glass on the roof and exterior side) and build a museum to Gulf Coast Athletics (w/ a large part devoted to the Sr. Bowl... as a selling point to those folk to make them stay). There are tons of great athletes who grew up an hour from that location (Emmett Smith, Brett Favre, Hank Aaron, etc... many of which may be willing to donate items or help promote the facility). This would increase the use of the facility in down-time which would increase the traffic in the area.

This could be done in stages, of course, w/ the stadium's largest two sections being built first & the museum built later as funds/grants became available. Mobile may have to foot a large part of the bill initially (this is one reason why I think it should be used as a redevelopment project) but I think the two could get something set up where the percentage paid by the city shrank over time & USA's grew... perhaps from Mobile holding 55-65% of the total debt initially to Mobile holding 35% after 10 years (& USA the lion's share since they would be the primary users). Naming rights would be an important facet of getting the stadium up and running. Portland recently signed a deal for $8.5 million on a soccer stadium & they say that's a bargain-basement for that kind of thing. Troy got $18 million for their stadium from Movie Gallery. FAU is shopping around $20 million for their stadium's collective naming rights. Ultimately, I think Mobile getting $15 million would be a big chunk & a reasonable amt. to expect. They're saying $100 million for total construction cost, but FAU is building a 30K seat stadium in FL for $62 million. Akron (which doesn't draw well at all) just built a 30K stadium for $61.6 million (and sold 16.1 million in naming rights to a couple different companies). UCF completed a 45K seat stadium for $54 million in '07 (and got $15 million from Brighthouse).

There is also the potential for the city selling Ladd-Peebles to the Mobile County School System. Even giving it away at $15 million would be a bargain for MCSS relative to how many HS's play there. W/ naming rights and the sale of LPS, that would take at least around $30 million off the top. Financing $70 million split between the city & USA would be easier to sell to people.

Anyway, just ideas...

[WEMO]

I think that it would be cool in Springhill, but that would ruin the whole village feel that they are trying to go for. Usa, or Downtown on the north side would not be so bad. Would be nice to see the skyline while watching a game. Nice crisp cool day with the rsa in the backdrop.......

[Port_of_Bama]

USA wil lbe playing big SEC schools in 3 years so it should definintly be interstate accessible and seat atleast 80 k.

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by Port_of_Bama

USA wil lbe playing big SEC schools in 3 years so it should definintly be interstate accessible and seat atleast 80 k.

PLEASE send whatever you are smoking to us up here in Montgomery so we can ALL enjoy it!

Just kidding... but seriously, once USA gets the program up and running, I believe the best they can shoot for is to be a program comparable to Troy University. Movie Gallery Stadium in Troy, AL seats 30,000 and something of that size will be plenty big for USA. If and when they play SEC schools, it will probably be at the campus of the SEC school, not in Mobile. It generally takes a program several years to get into home/home series, especially with the SEC heavywieghts.

But, I do respect your "build big" attitude!

[BlessedMobile]

Originally Posted by OCA REP

PLEASE send whatever you are smoking to us up here in Montgomery so we can ALL enjoy it!

Just kidding... but seriously, once USA gets the program up and running, I believe the best they can shoot for is to be a program comparable to Troy University. Movie Gallery Stadium in Troy, AL seats 30,000 and something of that size will be plenty big for USA. If and when they play SEC schools, it will probably be at the campus of the SEC school, not in Mobile. It generally takes a program several years to get into home/home series, especially with the SEC heavywieghts.

But, I do respect your "build big" attitude!

I'd say the family bong has been passed around. I know the Springhill Avenue area very well and you won't take 30 acres of homes without a fight and lots of money. I thought only WalMart could get government to exercise eminent domain without just cause. South has no money or monied alums willing to pony up big bucks. Build something like a 30K. The school system is always going to claim poverty; if you can get ahead of the teachers in the money line you might get some small coins but as for buying an old stadium...no way.

[BlessedMobile]

witty commentary aside, we can and should build a new stadium. Most likely it will be a largely city/county project. South would have some type of leasing agreement for their games. I can see 40K as possible. GMAC and Senior Bowl would be happy with a new home.
This sideline note for all of you SB fans, but I have it on good authority that the city makes nothing on the Senior Bowl and the hotels either comp or heavily discount the rooms for all the players and coaches; we may like the game but it makes us no money. Those who attend the game go home immediately afterward thus there are no hotel stays and minimal dining. Scouts and some of the player families are about all who actually pay for food and lodging. Didn't I read that Steve Hale made something like 225K in salary; I suppose the city should budget a donation to him each year to help him out...poor guy.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

The MDB has performed for the Senior Bowl for the past two years, we don't know about this year yet, but I could definitely tell a difference between the atmosphere between 2007 and 2008. It definitely improved. The inclusion of that jumbotron made a HUGE difference, and the game continues to be a fun one to watch.

If the entity that puts on the Senior Bowl keeps doing what they're doing (trying to improve it), I think that it can be really successful and fun. MDB members, who are usually very pessimistic folks, even commented on the improvement.

BTW everyone. Let's not forget that stadiums can be expanded. 30K would do just fine, I'd say 20K would do the job. Bryant-Denny started off with less than 30K, and in about a year it will be the largest stadium in the SEC. So, let's just remember that you can start of small and grow later.

[BuenaVista]

Originally Posted by Bogue

I agree w/ Blessed that the location's downtown aren't a necessity. To me I think a communal stadium between USA & Mobile (and the Sr. Bowl & the GMAC for that matter) would need to be somewhere between them. That's the reason I thought Springhill. I think I'd rather it go up on the east side of I-65... partly b/c to me that "feels" like the "Mobile" side. I don't know that I'd have a problem w/ having it near the baseball stadium, it's just that I think it'd have more of an impact being on/off Springhill than Govt. USA already operates its medical center just down the street beyond that, so clearly it's in line w/ their operations. That area is also really easy to get to and get out of for most of USA's student body (and for avg. Mobilians as well) w/ US 98 right there in addition to the interstate. A re-working of the intersection w/ I-65 & Springhill/US98 may be needed & perhaps a widening of that section of Old Shell & N. Sage.

Right now that area (Crichton) is an economically depressed part of the city (cheap land) and is in desperate need of revival. I think I'd like to see the purchase of the whole area bordered by I-65, Old Shell, Springhill, & N. Sage. This would give them room to create a large park environment surrounding the stadium & make maximum impact on the surrounding area. While the stadium itself would be somewhat justified to the western section of that, the parking would trail to the east of it in a landscaped parking area (lots of trees and mounded medians to make it nice for tailgating & attractive to look at). Springhill & Moffat/US98 intersect on the NE point of this tract in an area with several shopping centers. The only real problem w/ this location is that the train tracks cut across a small section of it, but they could be re-routed by 50' or so or the issue could be built around fairly easily. They would probably need to be elevated anyway to deal w/ the traffic... but that could be something planned and done when funds became available.

My own personal idea on the stadium's appearance would be to not go w/ the traditional brick that so many others have gone to (b/c it's played & boring & Mobile ain't an industrial-feeling city). I'd like more of a mixed contemporary approach that made the stadium stand out more (but not in a bad way). My idea would be to use a wide lower concourse w/ its visible outer areas sheathed in a frosted blue-green glass (Water Cube-esque) that would make it easier to cool the area's w/in while letting in natural light and would help the primary facade (which would be above it) of the stadium make a stronger impact. Above that first level (about 20' tall), and about 20' in from the outermost wall of the lower concourse, I would like to see them start w/ masonry in a similar vein to that used by the Ridgecrest dorm in Tuscaloosa. That creamy color above the aqua-colored glass would make it look more like a sandcastle on a beach (tying into the aquatic theme in the city & making a great visible impression). You could use almost any exterior style (Art Deco, Roman Coliseum, etc.) that suited your budget. This would essentially be an exterior skin, but wouldn't have to match the internal walking spaces. Lots of openings in the masonry section (majority of the structure) would allow light and air to circulate through the building. Parts of Ole Miss' Vaught-Hemingway are in the vein of what I'm thinking in terms of this upper section. Virginia Tech also uses a variation of this idea. FSU uses a variation that's stylistically more-in line w/ what I'm seeing in my head, but they use brick instead.

Surrounding that you'd have room for about 50-100 feet of planting area & greenspace (lots of room for Azaleas to pay homage to the city... and Springhill, for that matter... while making a very strong visible impact from the interstate). During the Azalea season, this could be a central point for many events b/c of its easy parking situation & ease of entrance/exit. USA & the bowls aren't going to need more than 50K anytime soon, so the endzones would stay open. I say continue the concourse level around one endzone (using the same aqua-colored frosted glass on the roof and exterior side) and build a museum to Gulf Coast Athletics (w/ a large part devoted to the Sr. Bowl... as a selling point to those folk to make them stay). There are tons of great athletes who grew up an hour from that location (Emmett Smith, Brett Favre, Hank Aaron, etc... many of which may be willing to donate items or help promote the facility). This would increase the use of the facility in down-time which would increase the traffic in the area.

This could be done in stages, of course, w/ the stadium's largest two sections being built first & the museum built later as funds/grants became available. Mobile may have to foot a large part of the bill initially (this is one reason why I think it should be used as a redevelopment project) but I think the two could get something set up where the percentage paid by the city shrank over time & USA's grew... perhaps from Mobile holding 55-65% of the total debt initially to Mobile holding 35% after 10 years (& USA the lion's share since they would be the primary users). Naming rights would be an important facet of getting the stadium up and running. Portland recently signed a deal for $8.5 million on a soccer stadium & they say that's a bargain-basement for that kind of thing. Troy got $18 million for their stadium from Movie Gallery. FAU is shopping around $20 million for their stadium's collective naming rights. Ultimately, I think Mobile getting $15 million would be a big chunk & a reasonable amt. to expect. They're saying $100 million for total construction cost, but FAU is building a 30K seat stadium in FL for $62 million. Akron (which doesn't draw well at all) just built a 30K stadium for $61.6 million (and sold 16.1 million in naming rights to a couple different companies). UCF completed a 45K seat stadium for $54 million in '07 (and got $15 million from Brighthouse).

There is also the potential for the city selling Ladd-Peebles to the Mobile County School System. Even giving it away at $15 million would be a bargain for MCSS relative to how many HS's play there. W/ naming rights and the sale of LPS, that would take at least around $30 million off the top. Financing $70 million split between the city & USA would be easier to sell to people.

Anyway, just ideas...

Spring Hill is two words

[buckett5425]

Bogue,

I am really confused of how putting a stadium in an economically deprived area of the city, will help revitalize that area. Please help me understand your logic.

[BlessedMobile]

Blue blood Mobilians would have a "fit" if Crichton was considered to be in "Spring Hill". Crichton is on Springhill Avenue. The college and neighborhood uses the two word version and the road is the one word version. Maybe there is some official version that might be different but I'm not aware of it. If we decide that Crichton is in Spring Hill please let me break the news to those in Spring Hill. Maybe some day we can do a study on Moffet, Moffett, Moffat Road..consensus seems to be Moffett but all spelling options are accepted.

[pboo74]

I think putting a stadium right downtown would be awesome,You could put it in the Orange Grove area thats plenty of space and right off the cause way..

[nouveau_Mauvilla]

I suppose one could entertain the idea of a stadium on Blakely Island. Available (ie undeveloped) land. Wouldn't force anyone out of their home. I suppose less of a problem having a flooded stadium then say residential or something. Proximity to downtown and ease of access. Of course a plus for you skyline lovers. Cons would be possible contamination and I wouldn't know what the cost would be.

Thought I'd throw it into the mix.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

I'd be worried about putting it on Blakley...

As a geographer, I'd be worried about the future existence of that island. It's located at the terminus of a delta, which for those of you who don't know, are places that are constantly changing in size, shape and elevation.

It's been there for years, yes, but the future of it is ultimately unknown.

PS: I know you were just offering it as a suggestion, I just couldn't help myself

[CottonCity251]

Originally Posted by Alabadrock

The MDB has performed for the Senior Bowl for the past two years, we don't know about this year yet, but I could definitely tell a difference between the atmosphere between 2007 and 2008. It definitely improved. The inclusion of that jumbotron made a HUGE difference, and the game continues to be a fun one to watch.

If the entity that puts on the Senior Bowl keeps doing what they're doing (trying to improve it), I think that it can be really successful and fun. MDB members, who are usually very pessimistic folks, even commented on the improvement.

BTW everyone. Let's not forget that stadiums can be expanded. 30K would do just fine, I'd say 20K would do the job. Bryant-Denny started off with less than 30K, and in about a year it will be the largest stadium in the SEC. So, let's just remember that you can start of small and grow later.

The city hasn't been doing a good job upgrading Ladd to keep it to par with other stadium just in the South. Improvements should be budget for yearly not when someone complains. That alone would probably stall talks between the city and South Alabama causing them to build their own venues, which might be better. I don't see the point of building a smaller stadium than Ladd expandable or not for city purposes but one 30K would do right for South Alabama. Steve Hale is underworked and overpaid....$259K a year, are you serious? And what about the stadium board...wonder what they do all year?? I wonder if they understand everything the stadium needs? Everybody need to sit down and talk.

[BuenaVista]

Visiting Mobile’s Spring Hill - Hometown Tours - WKRG.com
http://www.wkrg.com/hometown_tours/artic...

Some call it simply "08," referring to its zip code. Realtors call it, "highly desireable." But for the 10,000-plus people who live there, it's just Spring Hill...two words. It's been a nice place to live for a long time Visiting Mobile’s Spring Hill hometown tours
1 of 6Choose a Thumbnail

If Robert Hunter says it is two words, then it is two words.

[OCA REP]

This short piece was in today's Montgomery Advertiser. I thought I would share it since new stadiums and the Senior Bowl were being discussed.

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/arti...RTS-BRIEFS--Senior-Bowl-may-leave-Mobile

SPORTS BRIEFS: Senior Bowl may leave Mobile
September 14, 2009

The Senior Bowl lost more than $150,000 putting on this year's game in January, according to organizers who are looking at other possible host cities, in part because of uncertainty about the long-term financial viability in Mobile. In the past five years the game that showcases NFL hopefuls has made enough money to award $1.1 million in charitable donations, while accruing $1.2 million in profit, according to public tax filings by the Mobile Arts & Sports Association, which runs the game. But organizers say ticket sales and sponsorships slumped in the face of the worst recession in the game's 58-year history in Mobile. Victor Lott Jr., chairman of the association, said expenses for the game are rising, while revenue has peaked.