Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[WarrenC12]

Build 20m platforms and run single Mark I trains to save money. mr. x will love it!

[twoNeurons]

Can't. They only run in pairs. The shortest could be around 26m.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Build 20m platforms and run single Mark I trains to save money. mr. x will love it!

Nothing wrong with building short platforms now if there are provisions to extend them significantly in the future.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Can't. They only run in pairs. The shortest could be around 26m.

MKI not MKII. Two MKIs are 20m door to door, 25m total length.

[Gordon]

If the Evergreen Line is going to be integrated with the Millenium Line would the platforms have to be the same size as the current M Line platforms?

[deasine]

The minimum length of the Evergreen Line platforms must fit a MK I four car train.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Gordon

If the Evergreen Line is going to be integrated with the Millenium Line would the platforms have to be the same size as the current M Line platforms?

Not necessarily. They could build with 50m platforms (with the option to expand to 80m ) as they proposed in Honolulu. This would fit one 36m MkII set plus a C-Car. I don't think 50m would fit two trainsets (72m) with all doors on the platform.

@DKaz: I see. I was thinking overall length. Anyone know what a MkII is door to door?

@deasine: They could do 50m platforms (Expandable). Not a bad way to reduce build costs.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Can't. They only run in pairs. The shortest could be around 26m.

Of course that was a joke...

They'd have to be able to accomodate at least 4 car Mark 2 and 5 (6?) car Mark 1 trains as the line will connect directly to the M line at Lougheed. If it doesn't I will turn into mr. x2.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

@deasine: They could do 50m platforms (Expandable). Not a bad way to reduce build costs.

What's the real cost savings though? They are boring the extra length in the underground stations, and I'm assuming pouring the extra concrete for the elevated and at-grade stations, or at least making the elevated structures strong enough to hold bigger platforms. Really it doesn't seem like much. Either build it or don't.

[DKaz]

There are no underground stations on Evergreen Line, making things a bit easier. 50m now, 75/80m later. Although I wonder if the we just want this thing built attitude will catch up with us aka Canada Line. Evergreen Line will be quite busy.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by DKaz

There are no underground stations on Evergreen Line, making things a bit easier. 50m now, 75/80m later. Although I wonder if the we just want this thing built attitude will catch up with us aka Canada Line. Evergreen Line will be quite busy.

My mistake, I thought there was one underground station in the tunnel.

As I think about it further, I don't know that there is a need for longer platforms on this line. They could limit it and simply run smaller trains on that route. With plans to upgrade the Expo line to 80m platforms or whatever is needed for 6-car Mark2 and 8-car Mark1 trains, it would be a waste to have a connecting route like the Evergreen running these giant trains that would be mostly empty. They can run smaller trains that join the E/M line at Lougheed, and vice versa.

[DKaz]

When the Millenium Line gets completely segregated from Expo Line service, Expo can be expanded to run 8-car MKIIs for all we care (ain't that a dream??), the Millenium Line can stick with 4-car sets. It'll likely be wise to go with 80m platforms on the Evergreen Line anyway from the getgo so that Millenium and Evergreen Line trains are consistent but if it came down to "we need to cut $50 million dollars from the budget in order to afford this, what can we do?" building 50m expandable to 80m platforms instead of 80m platforms at first could be one idea.

[Metro-One]

Build it to 80m. It is amazing how quickly history can repeat itself. Already people are saying that ridership will be low and we don't need 80m platforms yada yada yada....

I think Richmond has proven that the suburbs not only want skytrain, but we will fill them up too. Coquitlam has wanted skytrain for a long time, Poco, Pitt Meadows and even Maple Ridge has wanted skytrain to Coquitlam for a long time. Growing up in the North East sector of the Metro I can tell you, almost everyone I know wants to see skytrain to Coquitlam and wants to use it!

We only have to look to the WCE to see how we feel about trains out here.

[twoNeurons]

I think Expo line is expandable from 80m to 110m/120m?

There was some lobbying for an underground station in the middle but it was deemed too costly for too little benefit.

50m platforms would only need enough straight level track to expand into. Stations are quite costly, so it may save quite a bit. If need be, they could run large trainsets and not have all the doors open until Lougheed. A bit mickey mouse, but doable, if needed.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

We only have to look to the WCE to see how we feel about trains out here.

I heard the trains were almost standing room only beyond Port Coquitlam Station to Waterfront this morning, meaning a lot of passengers at Coquitlam and all the passengers at Port Moody had to stand. Still the $30 premium over a regular bus pass is worth it as there really is no other way to get to downtown in 30 minutes from Coquitlam.

[Metro-One]

I'll be taking the WCE tomorrow and friday. The good thing is I get on at Maple Meadows station, essentially the last chance to get a seat on some days!

The other good thing about the WCE is it has Park and Ridge (which I use) and they are always full. Hint hint skytrain....

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Build it to 80m. It is amazing how quickly history can repeat itself. Already people are saying that ridership will be low and we don't need 80m platforms yada yada yada....

I think Richmond has proven that the suburbs not only want skytrain, but we will fill them up too. Coquitlam has wanted skytrain for a long time, Poco, Pitt Meadows and even Maple Ridge has wanted skytrain to Coquitlam for a long time. Growing up in the North East sector of the Metro I can tell you, almost everyone I know wants to see skytrain to Coquitlam and wants to use it!

We only have to look to the WCE to see how we feel about trains out here.

Well, let me play devil's advocate for a minute here. As pointed out in a lot of the Translink funding chatter lately, the Evergreen line is more political than anything. Initially promised by the NDP then canceled, it had to be promised again to get the C-Line built. If Translink were serious about addressing ridership issues, they would be pursuing a UBC extension first, then possibly the Expo line extension further into Surrey before Evergreen.

I was living at Lougheed Mall in the pre-B Line days, then the pre-M Line days, then the post M-Line days, so I can appreciate rapid transit, and know what you are saying. However, the 99 was and continues to be packed. The 98 was also busy, representing real demand for the M and C lines. Where is the 97 B line ridership? Saying that service is slow and crappy, but "people would get on a skytrain if they had one" is a pretty big risk for $1.5b.

The WCE is another question mark. This line is going to have 2 of it's 6 (5 new) stations at WCE stations. Are we suggesting that people in PM/Coq will get on the skytrain for a longer/cheaper ride downtown instead of the WCE? That part is unclear.

I sincerely hope the Evergreen line gets built, and ASAP, but just putting those other issues out there. If they cancel Evergreen and go for UBC in approx. the same timeline, I can't say I'd be disappointed. I can't see that happening, but anything is possible.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I'll be taking the WCE tomorrow and friday. The good thing is I get on at Maple Meadows station, essentially the last chance to get a seat on some days!

The other good thing about the WCE is it has Park and Ridge (which I use) and they are always full. Hint hint skytrain....

Didn't Translink recently announce that WCE trains would be getting longer (as they can't run any more frequently) ? Was that a promise or something that was actually happening?

The cost recapture is 100% too right?

I think there is room for a price increase, at least on the monthly passes...

[Metro-One]

The WCE I believe recovers 95% of its cost, which is pretty good! Also Translink has already ordered the new cars (one more for each train I believe) but Translink is now threatening to sell these cars when they arrive if they are not given the funding they are asking for.

As for WarrenC12, I would never put the Expo line extension before the Evergreen Line. The Northeast sector is far better prepared for mass transit than the area the Expo line extension would serve. (Port Moody and Coquitlam are much more centralized than Surrey or Langley and have more developed cores).

And as for the proposed E-line stations at the WCE stations, these are meant to act as hubs, for they are not only WCE stations but also local bus hubs, especially the one in Coquitlam, which services buses to Poco, Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge. Also, this would allow people taking the WCE from Mission and Maple Ridge to access areas such as Metrotown, New West and Lougheed Town Centre just by transferring from the WCE to skytrain.

Again, the North East sector has been begging for this line for decades now while the Broadway Corridor will have nothing but resistance towards a skytrain extension.

To me, this is a no brainer.

[BCPhil]

WRT station length, I think it depends on how long you want the trains to be further down the line, and how frequent they will be in Coquitlam.

If the Millennium line gets extended to UBC (or even just Arbutus) the new extension will have more riders from opening day than the Millennium line currently gets. It's possible (IMO) that Broadway Skytrain could almost match current ridership levels on the E/M trunk.

If the Broadway extension has over 200,000 boardings a day, it is going to need a lot of long trains. Those trains are going to have to travel through other parts of the system. They are either going to be Millennium line trains coming from the Expo Line, and/or Evergreen Line trains coming from Coquitlam. With the number of trains that need to go into Surrey for the Expo Line, there won't be enough long Millennium line trains for the demand, so the Evergreen line trains are going to need to carry more than half the load. And the trains will need to be long, so the stations from end to end (UBC to Coquitlam Center) will need to be the same length to support the same length trains.

So if you run ran trains in configuration of 1 Millennium line train for 2 Expo Line trains, you could run 2 Evergreen Line trains for each Millennium line train and have similar capacities on the new extension (from Lougheed to UBC) as you currently have on the trunk line (Waterfront to Columbia). The size of the Evergreen line trains and stations will have a big impact on the capacity of the Millennium line extension.

If you have short stations on the Evergreen line, that means a majority of trains on the current Millennium line will be short trains from Evergreen, thus lowering capacity of the Millennium line.