Canada Line | Completed

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by CLC

I used to think ProtransBC want to guarantee people in other stations down the line more room to get on, particularly Yaletown. However, today I heard the reason is for fire safety in the underground platform...

Wow....yea, do we have to bubble wrap everything around here? That's just really, really asinine.

Are they also saying that how London, Hong Kong, Paris, New York, and a hundred other cities around the world operate their underground systems have been doing it all wrong???

There's a reason why they built emergency tunnel fans, there's also a reason why they built in emergency exits, and they also have fire fighting equipment at the stations.

It's going to be quite sad if line-ups become a normal occurrence.

[Metro-One]

Yes, this is just stupid, are we purposely trying to make the most retarded generation of all time?

[mr.x]

[Waders]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Wow....yea, do we have to bubble wrap everything around here? That's just really, really asinine.

Are they also saying that how London, Hong Kong, Paris, New York, and a hundred other cities around the world operate their underground systems have been doing it all wrong???

There's a reason why they built emergency tunnel fans, there's also a reason why they built in emergency exits, and they also have fire fighting equipment at the stations.

It's going to be quite sad if line-ups become a normal occurrence.

And I hope they have emergency evacuation plan and actually conducted drill exercise to evacuate a full load of train passengers and people on platform out in a few minutes in case of fire or other 'incident'.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

This is why i feel that the attendants would be much more useful at the edge of the platforms (where the doors are) than their current approach. If at the platform's edge they can perform crowd control, clear zones for people exiting and prevent people from holding doors open

It's just too logical.

I think one of the problems is that we are used to SkyTrain, where staff are sometimes moving people down the platforms, but never ever holding people back at the entrance to the station. I would assume this has to do with the Canada Line's small platforms and to help reduce the risk of someone falling onto the tracks during its first weeks of operation. Could also very well be the door holding issue, but I thought the public had been pretty well educated on that matter in recent years.

Also, think of how the PR would look with super congested platforms... Pictures of line ups outside the station are always better and easier to handle with the media than packed platforms, which would naturally lead the media to question some of the built deficiencies of this brand new system.

In any case, it seems a bit ridiculous considering the public has been using rail transit in this region, with our own developed conventions towards crowd control for the past 30 odd years.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by NucksFanInVan

Dude, you need to give the soapbox a breather. FWIW, I agree - they blew the ridership estimates. Most of us agree. But consider:

- the go / no-go decision was extremely controversial and highly political. Many people thought the ridership estimates too high. The project was almost voted under twice, even with the underdesign and revisions.

- what we've got is the backbone of an expandable system. It's easy to reintroduce the suburban direct busses if we have to (hopefully a WCE premium service - we should be so lucky!), and we can triple the existing CL capacity with relatively minimal investment.

As an engineer, I completely understand the decision-making rationale. "Let's build something while we have the $$ and momentum, even if its the minimum. But let's make sure it is expandable."

While I think we'll be well past 6,300 pphpd before the end of the Concession, I'll be quite surprised if we get near 15,000 without a western M-Line extension. Keep in mind that unlike the M-Line, much of the corridor will need to wait for re-development to densify significantly.

Even if they have to do some station expansion work once the M-Line is extended, it probably won't be the end of the world. Us engineering types are pretty smart that way. Keep the faith, we'll get there... eventually.

And remember, there's really not that much more they could have done to add capacity without killing the project before it was born.

Now if only I knew whether they intentionally low-balled those ridership estimates to get the project thru...

Nicely put. It's important for all to remember that this project was killed, and resurrected with a need to be done as cheaply (or efficiently? LOL) as possible.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I agree with that, they are causing more harm than good with their crowd management. All they should be doing is allowing people to enter and crowd the platform, but just ensure that people allow passengers to exit the trains before entering.

How would they ensure people allow passengers to exit first.. the trains have 6 doors, and you're proposing a crowded platform. Its a brand new system, people are still new. I commend them for trying to keep some sort of flow happening and keeping people safe.

If the platform is crowded, and people hold doors for long enough, the train sits idle until staff fix the issue. That really wouldn't help speed things along.

Plus, nothing worse than arriving at your destination station, only to NOT be able to get off the dang train.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by mr.x

it would be brilliant if they could start using 18 or 19 trains soon for at least peak hour service.

Well I don't understand why they don't just run all 20 trains during peak hours. If the extra trains aren't in the shop, why not run them? If they are in the shop on the occasional day, being short 1 or 2 trains will hardly be noticed by most. Having extra trains is important when you run infrequent trains and a schedule is important. Like the O-Train has only 2 trains running and a third as a spare because if one is broken it would be a 50% loss in their schedule.

I think the 80-90% usage is based on peak capacity. It shouldn't be 90% of your trains are in service, it should be 90% of your trains carry the peak volume effectively, so you have a 10% excess of trains you don't need (that can be used when things break). If we need 100% of our trains to be effective then we need 10% more trains than what we have now.

I also think they should use both platforms at Waterfront. I think that would solve a lot of crowding issues if people going to YVR or Richmond could get on their train and wait while everyone else gets on the next train leaving. It would really spread out the crowd.

I rode today Bridgeport to Waterfront at around noon, and it was busy, mostly with students, especially at Langara. But there was lots of traffic the entire way. The rode South at rush hour all the way to Brighouse. It was packed. There was no crowd control at Waterfront at around 4:30, but by the time the train left VCC, it was near full. A lot of people got off at Broadway though, and it left enough room for everyone to get on. There was a lot of action at all the stations.

I did notice that at a lot of stops that the train lingered after the doors closed because people were holding a door open. So that might be part of the crowd problem, is people being impatient and forcing their way on the train instead of waiting for the next one.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by Waders

Some customer comments in a Vancouver Sun news article http://www.vancouversun.com/Public+trans...ing+back+school+crush/1971822/story.html

An interesting quote to notice:

Hardie said TransLink was looking into the Granville situation, which could “be one of those ones where we need to do some fine-tuning.”

Also from one of the Vancouver Sun staff/moderator earlier today:


It surely looks like Translink have some plan in mind to revive a partial 98-b service, or is it just pipe dream?

[mr.x]

^ that's pretty cool, i had no idea the Sun did live chats.




A peak hour 98 B-Line service would be a brilliant start to eventually bringing back the service entirely, though frequencies would certainly be much lower than before.

[Metro-One]

I fully support the 98B line, just because it will take most of the cry babies of my train, giving me more leg room!

Again, love trains, hate buses!

[Yume-sama]

Describing something, particularly a train, as "coughing" is mildly amusing as it makes no sense. I'm not surprised it smells, though. Think of the hippies Never a foul odor on the trains in Tokyo, which is strange, considering they don't really sell anything that we would really call "deodorant" (just a weird spray that doesn't work and gives you cold burns as it comes out of the aerosol bottle).

Also not surprised about pushing and shoving. In my limited experience, people don't even wait for people to get off the train before diving in headfirst like a quarterback at the goal line.

All this proves is that decency is, afterall, still lacking in the West

[BCPhil]

I think once they get around to introducing King George Highway B line things might change a bit. Right now taking the bus into Bridgeport from White Rock/South Surrey is faster than going into King George Station. But if there was a limited stop B-Line (with the proposed traffic signaling) it would cut down on the time it takes, and make the 2 different trips almost equal.

Of course the ultimate solution, offering both direct rides and lots of comfort is South Fraser WCE service. There are multiple corridors they could offer service on (BCER through Surrey and Langley, BNSF through North Delta and South Surrey/White Rock, and CN through North Surrey and Langley Township/Fort Langley to Abbostford). It might be expensive to implement (due to leases) but if they want the transferless service, make them pay for it. Cheap buses with transfers to Canada Line or pay for premium service on WCE with a limited schedule.

[twoNeurons]

The pushing and shoving seems pretty easy to fix. A few stickers later and you have:




Vancouver people aren't so much rude as they are opportunistic, if there are signs telling people what they [should] do, in general they will do it.

[DKaz]

Why is this not as big of a problem on the Expo/Millennium Lines or West Coast Express then?

[Yume-sama]

Hmm, could be a slightly different demographic...

Just sayin'. Steer clear of the rampaging Chinese grandmother and her shopping bags.

Seemingly nice, old, harmless, Japanese ladies will stiff arm you for the last seat on the train in Tokyo, too

[DKaz]

Coworker on mine who lives on No 2 Road and used to take the 492 here does not know what the heck the naysayers are complaining about, his door to door commute time used to be an hour 20 minutes going to work and over an hour 30 going home on average, yesterday it was an hour going to work and an hour 10 minutes going home via 402 and Canada Line. This morning took him an hour door to door as well. An extra 40 minutes a day he gets to be with his wife and kid FTW.

(I think people should be quoting door to door time when commuting... if I walk/West Coast Express/skytrain/walk to work my door to door commute is an hour 35 minutes going to work and an hour 45 minutes going home... meaning his commute to Richmond used to almost take as long as my commute to Mission!)

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Hmm, could be a slightly different demographic...

Just sayin'. Steer clear of the rampaging Chinese grandmother and her shopping bags.

Seemingly nice, old, harmless, Japanese ladies will stiff arm you for the last seat on the train in Tokyo, too

Lol! true. With Japan's aging population, I wonder if you'll have 60-year olds offering their seats to 80-year olds.

The platform length, combined with the opportunistic nature of the demographic that will use the line ( likely the same group of people who line up for samples at Costco ) are all the more reason to implement platform marking.

If 80% of the people abide by the markings, the other 20% just might be inclined to go along with the rest.

It's funny. I used to avoid samples at Costco if it was something I would never buy, but gradually over time, I feel like I'm getting influenced by the people around me shopping who view samples as free dinner.

I was in the Langley Costco a while ago and there were no lineups at the sample spots and actually food left on the sample tray.

[mr.x]

Down the road, along with the 50-metre platform extension we should also look at installing platform doors....if there's a line worthy of it, this would be it.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by NucksFanInVan

Dude, you need to give the soapbox a breather. FWIW, I agree - they blew the ridership estimates. Most of us agree. But consider:

- the go / no-go decision was extremely controversial and highly political. Many people thought the ridership estimates too high. The project was almost voted under twice, even with the underdesign and revisions.

- what we've got is the backbone of an expandable system. It's easy to reintroduce the suburban direct busses if we have to (hopefully a WCE premium service - we should be so lucky!), and we can triple the existing CL capacity with relatively minimal investment.

As an engineer, I completely understand the decision-making rationale. "Let's build something while we have the $$ and momentum, even if its the minimum. But let's make sure it is expandable."

I couldn't have said it better myself...

Remember a large chunk of metro vancouver (Derek Corrigan, Joe Trassolini) were against this. Fer Pete's sake, even a large chunk of COV council was against this (Anne Roberts, David Cadman).

Much of the press thought they were transit experts by quoting an article by Bent Flyvbjerg where he stated "ridership, which for half of all rail projects is more than 50 per cent lower than forecasted".
http://www.straight.com/article/profs-slam-citys-rav-memo

unfortunately, compared to the service we have become used to with the E and M lines, we aren't used to issues the C-line is having so soon. We can expand the platforms, we can order more trains, but the infrastructure is finally there...