New Arena for Downtown Edmonton

[Shodan]

Katz's arena plan should go ahead, but with strict conditions

Scott Mckeen
Edmonton Journal

Wednesday, September 02, 2009

If I were Daryl Katz and company, I'd be practising warmth, humility and charity in front of the mirror each morning.

The Oilers brass have their work cut out for them in coming months, convincing Edmontonians a downtown arena is in their best interest, not just the hockey club's.

Charm hasn't exactly been a strong suit for Oilers executives over the years. Peter Pocklington set the bar high. On arrogance, that is.

Maybe it comes with the territory of owning the shiniest bauble in town, beloved by a majority of Edmontonians.

Yet that might matter little when it comes to the arena project. Nothing makes Edmonton taxpayers swoon as much as a saved dollar.

Go all the way back to Omniplex, defeated in a referendum, and you find a citizenry leery of seeing its tax dollars used on big public projects. Mayor Stephen Mandel promises that your taxes won't fund the arena project. But let's be clear:Taxes will be used to fund the project.

No, not your current taxes. But the city will surely be asked to finance the arena, then use future taxes from the area--from the related hotels, condos, theatres, casino, restaurants and whatever else--to pay down the debt.

Proponents will argue that those future taxes depend on the project going ahead. No project, no taxes. So it's all a push, right?

Except that the arena district will — up investment that might go elsewhere. If the same hotel were built somewhere else downtown, the city would collect taxes to soften your annual bill.

Having said all that, I remain convinced that a well-designed arena project will help revitalize downtown. Rexall Place is situated in an area of mostly residential, light industrial and exhibition uses. Concertgoers and hockey fans tend to flee the area immediately.

But put 18,000 people in a downtown hockey arena and a good percentage of them will spill out onto side streets, stopping for a beverage or bite to eat. Do that for 50, or 100 or 150 dates a year and the effect will be substantial.

So yes, I support the idea of a downtown arena. With a few conditions. First, the city must own and control the arena. No ownership, no tax dollars.

Northlands must be the arena operator.

The agricultural society has done a remarkable job with Rexall Place as a venue for concerts and major events.

Katz must fork over his promised $100 million. For that, he can have naming rights for a period of time, or the primary lease. But that's it.

Katz and company must also come forward with hat in hand. They must not patronize us with wildly inflated estimates of the Oilers' economic impact. The Oilers pay about $50 million annually to migrant workers, who flee town after the season ends.

It would be nice to see Katz convince a few more players to live in the place they work, as year-round ambassadors for his hockey enterprise. Mind you, Katz could use a bit of that advice, too.

Katz and company must also promise to become better civic diplomats. The Oilers, since that wonderful run to the Stanley Cup in 2006, have been the source of considerable bad PR for Edmonton.

Chris Pronger heading for the exits, and Dany Heatley refusing to play here, are but two examples. The negative press reinforced the stereotype of Edmonton as a chilly backwater.

Edmonton, the city, is doing fine, though most of Canada remains ignorant of the fact. Our economy is as strong as anywhere in North America. Our arts, health care and post-secondary institutions are becoming national-class.

The bad press doesn't help those efforts. It must stop.

City council's support of a downtown arena is far from guaranteed, with Mandel and perhaps two or three other councillors solidly in favour.

Mandel, in particular, is in an interesting position. People working with Katz on the arena project include some who campaigned this spring to keep the City Centre Airport open.

They're still seething over the loss. And there are constant rumours of the airport/ arena folks finding and funding a candidate to take out Mandel in the next election.

Councillors hear the rumours. So does Mandel.

Still, Mandel believes in the arena. So he'll remain its biggest booster during council debates.

After that, he'll have to watch his back.
© The Edmonton Journal 2009

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[Shodan]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^ But think of the children, J-109. FOR THE LOVE OF GAWD WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN! And the homeless people! And the potholes !

Adopt a pothole as your child....

[Coldrsx]

"national-class."

haha... i wondered when we reverted to that for sake of realism.

[Daveography]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

^yes and no... designed right with towers above it 'could have worked'.

Given the time that it was proposed, what would have been the chances of that happening on that particular lot?

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Link to original article?

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/columnists/michael_platt/2009/09/01/10699201-sun.html

[jerico]

Based on all of the talk about Edmonton doing something similar to what Columbus did with Nationwide Arena and the Arena District, I thought I would take a look at what they have there. From what I have seen, I was very disappointed. Nothing over four floors, not nearly as much density as I had hoped, and what looks like about 3 blocks of surface level parking. That is ignoring the fact that half of it is still dirt and old warehouses similar to East Downtown Edmonton. Now I understand that the project is still ongoing with the construction of a new ball diamond as well, so that may take care of the dirt and old buildings, but I really hope that Edmonton does much better then this when it comes to our new district. I am really hoping to see a few towers over 20 floors at least, and almost no surface parking.

I hope the infatuation with Nationwide has more to do with the business model, or the general concept, then it does with the execution. I would like to see Katz's new development end up being the defacto premier sports and entertainment district design in North America, and I believe we have the ability to do so.

After this, I want this project to be the one everyone else tries to emulate...

[rapid_business]

/\ And that is why he should also be looking to Toronto as an example with the creation of Maple Leaf Square. The density and uses he/you speak of and desire.

[s211]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

You mean like this?



photo source

No. the site you've pictured has the benefit of a sloping topography that effectively buries the Costco. The primary roads and pedestrian network are above the Costco.

[Kevin_foster]

Heres just something I was playing around with :>




Anyways, let's get some ideas!

[jerico]

Originally Posted by onishenko

/\ And that is why he should also be looking to Toronto as an example with the creation of Maple Leaf Square. The density and uses he/you speak of and desire.

The density is better with the Maple Leaf Square, but it is still not what I consider ideal. I would like it, and this may just not be realistic, if the arena didn't look like an arena. I would prefer it not to be a stand-alone structure with other buildings around it.

I envision a large complex of sorts, in which the arena is a portion of the podium. Imagine something like City Centre Mall, where instead of Sears, there is a 19,000 seat arena. Instead of The Bay, there is a casino. Also, like City Centre Tower, TD Tower and the HSBC building, you would be able to seamlessly connect to several towers rising from the new podium to house the hotel, residential and commercial portions of the new complex.

Now, don't get me wrong, my vision doesn't look like City Centre. I would expect a higher level of finishes and a better street presence from the outside, but to me, this seems like the way to go. I don't think it is what we are going to see though. As I write this, it sounds more like a complex, and less like a district. Perhaps the new developers have there heart set on a number of smaller buildings instead of one large one.

[Jasper and one o nin]

there's a sears at the City Centre Mall?
I hope it doesnt look like a huge concrete box with — dangling off of it.

[Jasper and one o nin]

what program did you use kevin?

[Kevin_foster]

Just sketchup with IDX Rendering

Its —, I know - but hey - let's spark some ideas

[rapid_business]

I liked the rendering WhyteKnight did up about a year ago... it might be on this thread somewhere...

[Jasper and one o nin]

Actually the rendering is quite good Kevin, but it doesnt look like it could house an arena.

[rapid_business]

Originally Posted by onishenko

I liked the rendering WhyteKnight did up about a year ago... it might be on this thread somewhere...

Here was a proposal WhiteKnight drew up for the post office site some time ago. I like it!

Originally Posted by whyteknight

few arena concepts:

1.









2.




3.


4.

[bicycles]

i really like number 3 on there. number 4 is.. interesting.

[David Staples]

I'm David Staples, a reporter with the Edmonton Journal,and I'm working on a story about how the new downtown arena is inspiring to some folks with expertise in this area. I'd like to talk to you, so please give me a call, 498 5829, or email me at [email protected]

Cheers
David

[dancinb]

Originally Posted by jerico

Based on all of the talk about Edmonton doing something similar to what Columbus did with Nationwide Arena and the Arena District, I thought I would take a look at what they have there. From what I have seen, I was very disappointed. Nothing over four floors, not nearly as much density as I had hoped, and what looks like about 3 blocks of surface level parking. That is ignoring the fact that half of it is still dirt and old warehouses similar to East Downtown Edmonton. Now I understand that the project is still ongoing with the construction of a new ball diamond as well, so that may take care of the dirt and old buildings, but I really hope that Edmonton does much better then this when it comes to our new district. I am really hoping to see a few towers over 20 floors at least, and almost no surface parking.

I've been to the arena district in Columbus and it seemed to have some of the ONLY nightlife downtown on a weekend and it wasn't a game night. I can almost guarantee that they have more parking surrounding their arena than is even possible to have around ours...even if we turned every surface lot into a 4+ level parkade! I guess they need the parking because there's no rapid transit.

It was a refreshing part of their downtown. Quite inviting as far as pedestrian traffic goes. If I remember right, a couple of patios and comfortable lighting at night. I do remember it (the district) being surprisingly small, but that was 2 years ago and it may have grown since then.

I'm going to be there again in November this year...hopefully I'll have time to snap some pics!

Personally, I'm hoping this might entice some brand name restaurants downtown (Keg, Moxies or even TGI Friday's??).

[Kevin_foster]

^ yep Edmonton is pretty damned lucky we have a good start on LRT. And most of it is underground to boot...

Alot of people I've talked to over the past few days (these are people who don't know much about urban design or issues like traffic, parking, etc.) all support the arena downtown, and already expect it's not going to be an arena you "DRIVE" to. AKA Commonwealth.