Huntsville updates

[urbanoptimist]

Some more information on the trip to Chattanooga that city leaders and the like took back in July:

From The Huntsville Times
Wednesday, August 26, 2009

"Judy Ryals said the group discussing attractions and tourism wanted to see the Sci-Quest science museum move from Wynn Drive near Interstate 565 to downtown, and a glass bridge be built to link Big Spring International and Centennial parks."

Sci-Quest will be a great addition to downtown tourism, but I think Calhoun should look at a downtown location as well. I was driving by there the other day during school hours and traffic was horrible (I heard they have 10k students this year?!) all the way from the sparkman/old madison pike exit. Maybe even in 5 Points, I wonder if anyone has ever thought to tear down some of those houses between Andrew Jackson and 565, this would be a very convenient location for a campus.

"Olly Orton told the group that between outdoor concerts, restaurants, tourist attractions and shops, Chattanooga offers 306 venues for its downtown visitors. In contrast, Huntsville has 55. The most striking comparisons were Chattanooga's 102 downtown restaurants and bars to Huntsville 14 and Chattanooga's 23 shopping venues to Huntsville's eight."

EXACTLY

"Allison Dillon Jauken reminded the group of the plentiful public art pieces that add to downtown Chattanooga's appeal. She said Huntsville can borrow from other cities' plans to try to get private and public funding for outdoor art here. Creative benches, parking meters and bus stops can make necessary infrastructure whimsical."

I think they should get local schools to sponsor this. That would be a great way to introduce some community involvement and pride.

"Caylor said the public could expect to see some ideas come to fruition by January."

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by urbanoptimist

Some more information on the trip to Chattanooga that city leaders and the like took back in July:

From The Huntsville Times
Wednesday, August 26, 2009

"Judy Ryals said the group discussing attractions and tourism wanted to see the Sci-Quest science museum move from Wynn Drive near Interstate 565 to downtown, and a glass bridge be built to link Big Spring International and Centennial parks."

Sci-Quest will be a great addition to downtown tourism, but I think Calhoun should look at a downtown location as well. I was driving by there the other day during school hours and traffic was horrible (I heard they have 10k students this year?!) all the way from the sparkman/old madison pike exit. Maybe even in 5 Points, I wonder if anyone has ever thought to tear down some of those houses between Andrew Jackson and 565, this would be a very convenient location for a campus.

"Olly Orton told the group that between outdoor concerts, restaurants, tourist attractions and shops, Chattanooga offers 306 venues for its downtown visitors. In contrast, Huntsville has 55. The most striking comparisons were Chattanooga's 102 downtown restaurants and bars to Huntsville 14 and Chattanooga's 23 shopping venues to Huntsville's eight."

EXACTLY

"Allison Dillon Jauken reminded the group of the plentiful public art pieces that add to downtown Chattanooga's appeal. She said Huntsville can borrow from other cities' plans to try to get private and public funding for outdoor art here. Creative benches, parking meters and bus stops can make necessary infrastructure whimsical."

I think they should get local schools to sponsor this. That would be a great way to introduce some community involvement and pride.

"Caylor said the public could expect to see some ideas come to fruition by January."

No chance of removing houses in that Mill area. These will probably be designated as historic and should be perserved. This is an original neighborhood that so many of these "fake" neighborhoods try to copy. Remember Twickenham and Old Town were basically slums before they became part of historic districts.
if you want to change the dynamics of downtown build a complex of distinct high rises which would be a downtown research park. It could inclue Sci Quest, small university branch (Calhoun?), hotel, linear park tied to Big Spring
What's sad about all of these "findings " is they are really nothing new and
have been mentioned many times in the past. Maybe this time something will actually happen. All of the area north of Holmes to Pratt/Oakwood should be part of a redevelopment plan that would include this research park, light rail possibilities and the Meridian street corridor condo/retail development. Putting up a few park benches and a piece of art won't cut it.
Bring in the Medical District and link it to Big Spring, designated trolly line
from Parkway Place to the Medical Mall new condo area on Gallatin continue to Constellation/VBC on to the train Depot and the before mentioned research/medical park. Could have a strong tie in to Huntsville Hospital for office space. Oh well party on Mary Jane

[jmanhsv]

Originally Posted by urbanoptimist

From The Huntsville Times
Wednesday, August 26, 2009

"Judy Ryals said the group discussing attractions and tourism wanted to see the Sci-Quest science museum move from Wynn Drive near Interstate 565 to downtown, and a glass bridge be built to link Big Spring International and Centennial parks."

Sci-Quest will be a great addition to downtown tourism, but I think Calhoun should look at a downtown location as well. I was driving by there the other day during school hours and traffic was horrible (I heard they have 10k students this year?!) all the way from the sparkman/old madison pike exit. Maybe even in 5 Points, I wonder if anyone has ever thought to tear down some of those houses between Andrew Jackson and 565, this would be a very convenient location for a campus.

Tiger's right on this one. Tearing down large amounts of houses, especially near downtown, is a bad idea. It's what killed urban neighborhoods in the first place (re: "urban renewal" projects of the 50's and 60's). Besides, Huntsville doesn't have a plethora of pre-1950s houses, so let's keep the ones we've got.

That being said, a college campus near downtown would be a GREAT idea. There are some industrial areas to the north and west of downtown that would benefit greatly from having Calhoun or Drake State move part or all of their campus there. I've always thought Holmes Avenue (Terry Heights eventually?) would be a great corridor to redevelop into student housing for UAH students. When the Mason Court housing project is torn down in a few years, that land could also be used for student apartments, instead of the current HHA plan to rebuild the projects (which makes no sense to me).

Now, Big Spring Partners-- what a waste of a good idea. The original Chattanooga company (RiverCity) has been very successful; currently they're building a Monaco-style movie theater development there. But in the five years Big Spring has been around, what have they brought to downtown? A clock and a fountain. Wow, that makes me really want to go downtown! [/sarcasm] I think part of the problem is the leadership. I never really understood why Mary Jane Caylor, a member of the State Education Board, is the executive director. If Big Spring's ever going to be effective, it's going to need to be run by someone who has an active interest in downtown-- a developer (McLain, Schrimsher), a business owner, or, if you can find one, a resident.

The downtown research park idea is great. CRP will be running out of land in a decade or so, and providing incentives to potential CRP companies to open offices downtown instead would help in at least two ways-- it has the potential to bring the critical mass of workers needed downtown to attract more businesses (and enhance the current ones), and the city won't have to spend money on new infrastructure to carve out a new research park out of some farmland in the suburbs.

[Huntsvillenative]

I've said it many times, Huntsville needs to focus on tourism and something to attract people to downtown. Here's six things that would help with that.

1.A new minor league world-class baseball stadium.

2.An aquarium (bigger than the one in Chattanooga).

3.A state-of-the-art science museum and planetarium. (Sci-Quest would work with this also)

4.Upscale movie theater and restaurants.

5.Shops and retail.

6.Expanded park space.

The area south of Big Spring Park on Williams Ave all the way over to Lowe Ave and down to Madison Street would be the ideal triangular location for Big Spring expansion and where new museums and attractions could go. There's about 45 additional acres.

There's so much potential for downtown Huntsville. Thankfully we have a mayor in there that can see that.

[HSVTiger]

the ideas presented in this forum are better than any this group
have come up with, The problem is getting something to happen. There are some heavy hitters on the Big Spring board so if they can't make something happen who knows who will. Huntsville has been getting ideas from other cities for 20 years and we don't even have a t-shirt to show for it.
http://www.bigspringpartners.com/board/
It's more like a glorified city council

"Oh Mary Jane will you get off this cute bench so we can put it downtown?"
Report back to us in 3 months on how well it's working.

[ThatGuy]

Comparing maps of the downtowns of Chattanooga(C) and Huntsville(H) gives us clues as to the problems we face. C has numerous major roads leading to, through, and around it. H just has a few leading around it. Plus C was a large area that had fallen on hard times so property values were low. While there is a lot of empty buildings in H, does anybody think they are a bargain? Last but not least C has the UTC campus between downtown and the Hopsital. Clearly, C had a lot of potential energy built up and just needed a little push to get the engine going. H is not like that at all. At least not in our "traditional" downtown. But we could build a new one. I would say that the triangle between 565, the Parkway, and Governors has potential for development. Plenty of high visibility frontage with easy highway access already built. It is also just a few thousand feet from the UAH campus. Plus, the property values in that area are a lot less than across the Parkway. That is similar to the scenario for Atlantic Station in Atlanta and I think we would all be happy with something like that here.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Comparing maps of the downtowns of Chattanooga(C) and Huntsville(H) gives us clues as to the problems we face. C has numerous major roads leading to, through, and around it. H just has a few leading around it. Plus C was a large area that had fallen on hard times so property values were low. While there is a lot of empty buildings in H, does anybody think they are a bargain? Last but not least C has the UTC campus between downtown and the Hopsital. Clearly, C had a lot of potential energy built up and just needed a little push to get the engine going. H is not like that at all. At least not in our "traditional" downtown. But we could build a new one. I would say that the triangle between 565, the Parkway, and Governors has potential for development. Plenty of high visibility frontage with easy highway access already built. It is also just a few thousand feet from the UAH campus. Plus, the property values in that area are a lot less than across the Parkway. That is similar to the scenario for Atlantic Station in Atlanta and I think we would all be happy with something like that here.

good points, our road infrastructure sucks, but plans do exist to improve it,
Meridian street, Church Street widening, Governors Drive widening project.
Huntsvilles downtown is defined by Oakwood/Pratt to the north, Parkway west, but it is expanding further west as jman hinted at. California to the east and Governors to the south. Plenty of potential spots for something besides parking. The Medical district could be a key component. Why not a hotel on Madison St? Constellation was the hoped for catalyst(and could still be) but the economy downturn is killing any kind of financing for any of these type projects.

[Huntsvillenative]

The economy is said to be improving and stabelizing which means projects like Constellation should begin work sooner than later.

[gkcooper]

Nationally, there are real signs that the economy is not improving, but on the precipice of an epic collapse. NMD, Boeing, and Marshall are all trimming thier workforces. Future projects have all basically been halted, shelved, or outright eliminated. Spacecamp enrollement is way down, as are visits to the USSRC. The local economy derives a sizable percentage from just those few items. And, that is merely a drop in the ocean. Many other problems will effect the local area too. True, we have weathered the storm and others like it relatively well. However, this is one that just may be too big of a bullet to dodge.

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative

The economy is said to be improving and stabelizing which means projects like Constellation should begin work sooner than later.

[Huntsvillenative]

Originally Posted by gkcooper

Nationally, there are real signs that the economy is not improving, but on the precipice of an epic collapse. NMD, Boeing, and Marshall are all trimming thier workforces. Future projects have all basically been halted, shelved, or outright eliminated. Spacecamp enrollement is way down, as are visits to the USSRC. The local economy derives a sizable percentage from just those few items. And, that is merely a drop in the ocean. Many other problems will effect the local area too. True, we have weathered the storm and others like it relatively well. However, this is one that just may be too big of a bullet to dodge.

Yes, it's improving and is already better today where it was 12 months ago. The housing market is already picking up. Where I live houses are going up every day now at $250,000 each after an 8 month silence period of any development. Small businesses who were hit hard by the reccession are now getting back on their feet. The $800 billion bailout is starting to take effect and showing signs of improvement. I say by this time next year the national economy will be back to normal.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative

Yes, it's improving and is already better today where it was 12 months ago. The housing market is already picking up. Where I live houses are going up every day now at $250,000 each after an 8 month silence period of any development. Small businesses who were hit hard by the reccession are now getting back on their feet. The $800 billion bailout is starting to take effect and showing signs of improvement. I say by this time next year the national economy will be back to normal.

Just because the federal government says the economy is improving, doesn't mean it is. No one knows for sure how the health of the economy is right now. Of course, for all I know, the Federal Government could be completely right, and it might be improving. But, we just don't know.

Though, I do agree that our local economy might be showing some signs of improving. But, like I said, on a local scale. Most of Alabama was very fortunate. Developers were not overly confident in the state, and didn't build any more than was needed, and that really helped us when the real estate market collapsed.

One think I believe completely is that the Huntsville-Decatur area will be one of the first regions to emerge from the recession successfully.

[gkcooper]

Almost every leading indicator for long-term economic growth and stability is showing clear signs of devastating short and long-term futures. There is no way that Trillions of Dollars can be "created" without devaluing the currency.
And I do not mean in a small way. Hyper-inflation WILL occur.

This has been proven every time that it has ever been tried in the last four-hundred years. This time, it is on a scale that dwarfs all previous spending combined since the beginning of human civilization.

[Huntsvillenative]

Originally Posted by gkcooper

Almost every leading indicator for long-term economic growth and stability is showing clear signs of devastating short and long-term futures. There is no way that Trillions of Dollars can be "created" without devaluing the currency.
And I do not mean in a small way. Hyper-inflation WILL occur.

This has been proven every time that it has ever been tried in the last four-hundred years. This time, it is on a scale that dwarfs all previous spending combined since the beginning of human civilization.

Stop being so pessimistic. if the whole world thought of it as a doom and gloom then we would all be in toruble. It's not as bad as you're making it look. What we've been going through for a eyar and a half now is not a depression like back in the 30's. We're going through a reccession, something that happens about every decade or so. People make it sound so bad as if eveyone and their momma's are losing jobs, when the truth is, those people that did are starting to get jobs back. The stock market has been up lately even when it falls a few. Look at all the people who were able to afford the cash for clunkers program. Look at all the people showing up in major US cities for professional sporting events, concerts, and conventions.

My point is things aren't as bad as they seem or will get. If the housing market can pick up so can development, which both are starting to happen.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative

Stop being so pessimistic. if the whole world thought of it as a doom and gloom then we would all be in toruble. It's not as bad as you're making it look. What we've been going through for a eyar and a half now is not a depression like back in the 30's. We're going through a reccession, something that happens about every decade or so. People make it sound so bad as if eveyone and their momma's are losing jobs, when the truth is, those people that did are starting to get jobs back. The stock market has been up lately even when it falls a few. Look at all the people who were able to afford the cash for clunkers program. Look at all the people showing up in major US cities for professional sporting events, concerts, and conventions.

My point is things aren't as bad as they seem or will get. If the housing market can pick up so can development, which both are starting to happen.

I don't think that his argument was pessimistic. Those are all true facts. "Creating" these massive amounts of money does devalue our dollar, and will eventually lead to massive inflation, if we are not quick to pay of the money we have spent.

When observing these stimuli, you have to look at the costs and benefits. At the moment, it isn't clear whether the benefits will outweigh the costs or not. The fact is, we won't know just how successful "Cash for Clunkers" was for a long time from now. Yes, people were able to afford cars because of it, and I'm all for people being able to afford cars. But, we have to look at the way that affordability was created, and how it will affect our economy.

History has shown that giving ourselves our own money back to buy things does not lead to growth in the economy. While I hope and pray that this time will be different, attempts at this in decades past haven't been so successful.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but, people are still losing jobs. At a rate of 400-500,000 per month. We had a one "better" month with 300,000 lost. But, 300,000 is still an incredible amount of money that isn't being infused into the economy.

My political views are yelling at me to say that this whole stimulus isn't working, but my better judgment is telling me that EVERYONE needs to wait and see before we start preaching that the economy is improving or worsening.

[Huntsvillenative]

I look at it this way, if the average American family can afford to take their kids to Disneyworld or a family can afford to shop and dine at Bridge Street then the economy isn't as bad as the media has made it out to be.

Look around the country, famous places like Graceland, the Rock HOF Museum, Statue of Liberty, etc are all doing great financially. They're not laying off massive amounts of workers due to lack of money to pay them. Yes things are rough for some but for the majority it's not as bad as it seems.

I was downtown yesterday and talked to a local businessman and we had about an hour talk about what could be done and should be done to downtown Huntsville to better it. We both agreed that the new proposed stadium for the Stars should be downtown where it would bring in more business and the location should be right where the Coco-Cola plant is. We discussed Constellation and he let it be known that the economy hasn't held up development on that project as much as people think. It's got more to do with other things such as height limits and size of the project being downsized. We also agreed that there needs to be more attractions downtown such as a science museum to lure both locals and tourists to downtown which would create more jobs and reasons for condos and highrise buildings. He and I both agreed on the thought of a 30 story signature tower in north downtown close to the Veterans memorial location.

I expect to see construction begin on many projects around town within the next few months. Some projects are already underway.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

There are always going to be a certain number of people that will always be able to go out and spend massive amounts of money at Bridge Street.

I do agree that our local economy is more stable than the rest of the nation.

[mp7123]

I dont think it is the stimulus that is helping the economy, rather the TARP. Only 10% of the stimulus has been spent to date. The TARP is what kept us from a complete financial meltdown and allowed banks to lend again. Most of the large banks that received TARP funds have already repaid the full amount to the Treasury and the government has made a profit on the investments in the amount of $4 billion or 15 percent. The only large banks that have not repaid the government are Citi and B of A.

[JuanHunt]

The Coke people will want $50million for the land and relocation of their bottling operation.

Real estate sales in HSV have stabilized at 2004 levels, but new homes starts are off and the true inventory of home for sale over 12 months in lower priced homes, and over 3 years in higher priced homes.

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by JuanHunt

The Coke people will want $50million for the land and relocation of their bottling operation.

I don't think there is a real possibility to get the coke property, but they might go for free land elsewhere along with a big/total tax break for a few years...

[Huntsvillenative]

I don't know if the proposed Coke plant location is possible or not but I do know that there's a push by some powerful local businessmen to have the new stadium downtown somewhere. That doesn't mean it will happen but it's being discussed. The major hurdle is the cost of relocating to downtown. It would be much cheaper to do it where the current Joe Davis Stadium is, but it would benifit local businesses and nightlife better downtown.