Canada Line | Completed - Page 442

canucks23 · #**8821** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 10:38 AM**

no kidding. I think I tried 10 times each on my debit and credit card and was about to go to 7 11 to buy a day pass until my bro asked a translink employee how to use the machine.

DKaz · #**8822** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 2:44 PM**

Why oh why do the new ticket machines not accept Mastercard Paypass?

metroXpress · #**8823** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 3:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i took a pic but it didn't really show up - at YVR they put a sticker over the sign at the station - you can see a much larger one below the new one - why did they do that?

I took a pic of it too...but didn't upload it

Can't believe that they aren't fixing this problem....

metroXpress · #**8824** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 3:24 PM**

I didn't have to wait till 3 lights to swipe my card...in fact, the 3rd light didn't show up and I swiped it anyways. It worked.

Why can't they display the swipe card message on the large screen instead of telling you to follow the directions on the small screen below. They could show it on both.

mr.x · #**8825** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 5:09 PM**

lol, how many times did he call it a "stupid" machine?

BCPhil · #**8826** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 5:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Here is Translinks How To video on how to use the new TVM's and how they work with no problems.

• Video Link

Right at the beginning of the video they get an epic fail.

It says, right there in the text: "These new machines use a different process, and the secret is..."

RIGHT THERE! That is a fail. There should be nothing secret about paying. When you are asking people for money there shouldn't be a secret, a trick, a gimmick, a ploy, or a scheme. It should be straight forward and explained.

These machines, not only work nothing like the current machines people are used to, don't work like any other machine I've ever used on the planet.

Then near the end, when they are explaining the lights, the translink guys says: The green light goes on, then when the second amber one flashes pull out your card... I don't know what the third one is for.......

NO ONE KNOWS WHAT ANY OF THEM ARE FOR.

And again, why does it mater when you pull out a chip card? It should read the chip and you put in your pin and then say, "thanks", then you pull out your card, just like the hand held readers at restaurants.

What's next, a secret handshake?

Anyone else think a card reader with moving parts (to read the chips) is going to break a lot in the future?

DKaz · #**8827** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 5:21 PM**

A tech working on the new TVMs for the West Coast Express said this is exactly why they haven't been able to roll out the new machines yet. Besides the few bugs to work out, they're having a hard time properly interfacing the debit/credit card reader with the system that doesn't require the transit users have the IQ of over 150 to use. "We have time because the West Coast Express already has old machines in the interim, but we knew these problems would exist since the TVMs had to be rushed out for service on the Canada Line. We'll have these TVMs out as soon as we make these machines 99.9% failproof. Right now, 97% is not good enough."

It's a lot of tweaking to get the success rate to 99.9% that's taking a lot of time.

officedweller · #**8828** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 5:58 PM**

I think one of the other problems is ergonomics (if you can call it that) - people will be standing to the right of the card reader. It is human nature to face the card so that you can read it from your perspective - but that means the magnetic stripe will be on the left - not on the right as required by the reader. You have to insert the card rotated 180 degrees so the writing on the face of the card is upside down.

BCPhil · #**8829** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Those machines are retarded. The lack of a cash button, while good should be indicated on the screen ( "Deposit Cash or choose an option below" )

The onscreen buttons give no feedback. On current machines, when you press a button, it depresses, letting you know where you hit. The new ones just change the screen.

Not only that, but I couldn't figure out the credit card thing. We're all pretty savvy here, and we know how it works even and we're having trouble. Time to go back to the drawing board with that one.

It SCREAMS of a complete lack of user testing.

Agreed. I find the dings annoying. Why the dings instead of visual feedback (depressed buttons) like the old machines?

The machine is so similar to the current machines, why would they mess with the things that worked? All that's really different about the machines is the Smart Card pad, add fare, and chip and pin reader. Why would they mess so much with the visual prompts (both in paying and button pushing)?

And the machines also just barely tell you they are ready to accept cash. There should be a big message with an arrow saying "Insert Cash or Chose credit or debit". Not a little teeny tinny message.

Actually now that I think about it, why do you even need to push a button for credit OR debit? No other machine does that. They can tell the type by the card you put in. I've used a lot of POS machines, and none asks for the card type before it readers it.

The machines should just say "Insert Cash ----> OR Insert Debit/Credit Card below" and then give the user feed back based on if they are inserting cash or put in a card. The software can tell what the user is doing.

Any parking machine I've ever used asks the user to put in cash or credit, it doesn't ask you to warn it which one you are doing.

Translink should ask themselves one simple thing when designing the TVM: what would a gas pump do? Millions of dollars go through express pay gas pumps everyday and I think everyone is used to them, and I've never found a single one that is hard to use.

Rusty Gull · #**8830** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 6:10 PM**

"Translink should ask themselves one simple thing when designing the TVM: what would a gas pump do? Millions of dollars go through express pay gas pumps everyday and I think everyone is used to them, and I've never found a single one that is hard to use."

That is exactly what I was thinking. This is not rocket science. It's astonishing to think that we still have not heard directly from the manufacturer, who should have stepped up by now to publicly defend their product, or at least explain the situation - before it really gets out of control.

Gordon · #**8831** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 6:13 PM**

Let's hope that between nowand Sept. 8th these problems can be fixed by then.

Holden West · #**8832** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 7:11 PM**

I love that "instructional" video.

In what bizarro world does an amber light mean "go ahead and do something quickly"? (traffic light speed demons notwithstanding...)

Since the machine has to clamp down on the card to read the chip what it should do is spit it out a centimetre or so after it's done as a visual cue that you should pull the card out.

Off the top of my head, one solution to the stupid amber light would be two green half-circles or something similar. You put the card in and half lights up and the second half lights up when you have to pull the card out that's much more visually intuitive.

SpongeG · #**8833** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 8:12 PM**

Canada Line not free even if machines not working

By Tracy Sherlock, Vancouver Sun

Commuters struggle to pay for tickets to ride the new Canada Line.
Photograph by: Glenn Baglo, Vancouver Sun

A Canada Line ticket machine indicates a problem with a valid credit card.
Photograph by: Stuart Davis, Vancouver Sun, Vancouver Sun

VANCOUVER - Canada Ticket machines were causing trouble again this morning - the debit and credit card functions were not working for about a half an hour.

"A rumour is out there that Canada Line is 'free' today because debit/credit function is not working on the Ticket Vending Machines (TVMs). Wrong on all counts," TransLink said in a press release.

Even if the machine is not working, passengers are expected to have valid proof of payment while in a fare-paid zone.

Transit Police do issue tickets to violators, although in all cases they exercise discretion. Fare Deferral Receipts can also be issued in the event a fare cannot be paid.

Even when the machines are working, commuters may have trouble using them, because they work a little differently from most credit card machines.

Debit or credit cards should be placed in the card slot, then when a little light comes on, the card should be pulled back out of the machine. If cards are left in the slot too long, or pulled out too quickly, the machine will say the card is not valid.

TransLink has released a video showing how to use the machines, which can be viewed below.

http://www.vancouversun.com/Canada+Line+free+even+machines+working/1932240/story.html

SpongeG · #**8834** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 8:18 PM**

video of a reporter trying out a machine and a commuter trying - he says he tried 4 machines

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/videos/index.html#ReK_NtXak537GfXZnemvgaHP45Yk7AJ5

LeftCoaster · #**8835** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 8:20 PM**

What was wrong with the old machines? they functioned just fine and were very simple to use. They werent even that old were they?

GoogalieBear · #**8836** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 8:25 PM**

Hummm... I hate to make this my first post (I've been following the discussion here for a while just never posted), but please can we get back to something more interesting besides bashing the TVMs. I agree that they have a problem, now can we move on (or spin a different thread to continue that particular dialog).

On a different note, I used the elevator for the first time on the line yesterday (I took my bike on the train), and am wondering why they decided to split the elevator at different levels (at both the KingEd and Bridgeport stations). There is a separate elevator connecting each adjacent level, to travel from floor 1 to 3, you have to take one elevator, get out, walk over to a completely different location to take the next elevator. While it was not a big deal for me yesterday, both stations were relatively tame, I could see it as a potential problem during rush hours. And seeing they did it at more than one station, it must have been a deliberate design...

mr.x · #**8837** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 8:38 PM**

^ it's like that for the underground stations at King Edward, Oakridge, and Langara. It's because the tunnel is relatively shallow, and it didn't allow them to have an overpass to the other side of the platform like Broadway Station.

It had a lot to do with cost as well.

Specifically for King Edward, it's the only stacked tunnel station along the line. And as for Bridgeport, there were space issues. Note that the first elevator brings you to the ticket hall, to buy your ticket, and then you go past the fare paid line to get to the elevator to the platform.

GeeCee · #**8838** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 9:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

What was wrong with the old machines? they functioned just fine and were very simple to use. They werent even that old were they?

They don't support the chips which are coming to credit/debit cards now.. in many countries in Europe, their cards ONLY have chips on them, so it's important for the Canada Line at a minimum to support these cards for the Olympics.

officedweller · #**8839** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 10:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

video of a reporter trying out a machine and a commuter trying - he says he tried 4 machines

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/videos/index.html#ReK_NtXak537GfXZnemvgaHP45Yk7AJ5

Watch the video carefully -

The first time, she inserts the card with the magnetic stripe on the wrong side (on the left, not the right). The card should be upside down when viewed from the right - which I think is a major cause of the problem (people like to view things right side up).

The second time, she spins the card (watch the video carefully) and the magnetic stripe is on the correct side (right side). Hey, it works!

Orchestrated con or honest mistake?

It's on video!

officedweller · #**8840** Posted **Aug 26, 2009, 10:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoogalieBear

... am wondering why they decided to split the elevator at different levels (at both the KingEd and Bridgeport stations). There is a separate elevator connecting each adjacent level, to travel from floor 1 to 3, you have to take one elevator, get out, walk over to a completely different location to take the next elevator. While it was not a big deal for me yesterday, both stations were relatively tame, I could see it as a potential problem during rush hours. And seeing they did it at more than one station, it must have been a deliberate design...

Deliberate design.

The assumption is that a passenger must access the ticket machines to purchase a fare and this also prevents "accidental" fare evasion.

In addition, when the fare gates are installed, you can't allow a passenger to circumvent the fare gates by taking a direct access elevator to the platform. All passengers will be required to pass through the fare gates.