Canada Line | Completed

[crazyjoeda]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Yes, as a white person I would prefer if you didn't steal my minority status. Thank you very much.

lol, I know a guy who applied for a government job in Richmond and ticked off that he was a visible minority.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by whatnext

- Translink may have seriously underestimated ridership. At 5:00 pm today 90% of seats were filled as the NB train left Brighouse. By Aberdeen the train was very full. Given the time of day I doubt these were "transit tourists". I hate to think what it will be like September 7 when the bus changes are made.

No, there are a lot of transit tourists still; 1/4-1/2 of the train that leaves YVR doesn't get off, or just experiences the station and gets back on. I know because I work at YVR.

Originally Posted by whatnext

- The South of Fraser folks are going to have reason to complain if the trains are as busy as noted above, and they're shoehorned into a packed Canada Line. Making like sardines is not a good way to attract new riders to transit.

Once there are fewer transit tourists, YVR-Airport won't be as busy, though 1/4 of the train should be full with people with luggage. It would get busier especially when there are more flights arriving.

Originally Posted by whatnext

- Lots of flyers are taking it to the airport. Too bad the seats aren't well-arranged so you can keep an eye on your luggage. As a result people are using seats for their bags.

We have to keep in mind that this is a metro commuter train too.

Originally Posted by whatnext

- Did you know that if you're Tripsaver expires while you're enroute, they expect you to get off at the next station and buy another fare!? That doesn't happen on a bus.

Incorrect. If your fare isn't valid and Transit Police does happen to check your fares, though highly unlikely, you will be ticketed. Buses are Fare Paid Zones, just like every other SkyTrain line.

[crazyjoeda]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

I hate to think of what it will be like during the Olympics.

Is it a bad thing to declare the line possibly too successful?

When will the NDP start claiming they would have built the Canada Line bigger, instead of not at all?

I think we still need to wait a few weeks to see what the real ridership will be. I noticed many transit tourist today. My concern is for what will happen when the B-Line stops running and the buses connect.

[nname]

Originally Posted by mr.x

I think they will have to start planning to buy more Canada Line trains in 2010. The twenty trains we have aren't going to cut it for very much longer at this rate. But the question is, who pays for the trains which cost $6-million each ($3-million each car)? And how many more trains? An order for more trains next year would mean the trains would be delivered here in early-2013 at the very latest.

From what I understand from the documents, InTransitBC will be responsible to provide enough capacity to meet baseline demand (3522pphpd in 2010, 4801pphpd in 2012, going all the way up to 6328pphpd in 2040), while making sure the station is large enough to handle the upper-level demand (1.3x the baseline, which is 8227 by 2040). Any change beyond this capacity will require a change initiated by RAVCO, where there will be an agreement for paying the cost of upgrade and additional operating cost.

Base on my calculation, running a trainset with capacity of 334 at an interval of 3:10 gives exactly the capacity of 6328pphpd, so you guess who will be paying for all the upgrades...?

[mr.x]

^ what is baseline demand?

[nname]

Originally Posted by mr.x

^ what is baseline demand?

1.15 x the projected ridership coming from King Edward into Broadway during AM peak. There must be a document about this somewhere...

[mr.x]

^ 3,522 pphpd is the baseline demand from King Edward into Broadway during AM peak? Are you serious??? That's a terrible gross underestimate.

[nname]

Originally Posted by mr.x

^ 3,522 pphpd is the baseline demand from King Edward into Broadway during AM peak? Are you serious??? That's a terrible gross underestimate.

I think its from this document, as it estimate a load of 4510 in 2010 and 5060 in 2021 (excluding ramp-up effect and airport demand).

Something worth mentioning:
Boarding per hour during AM peak hour -
Alderbridge (now Lansdowne): 30
Sea Island East (now Templeton): 10

[nname]

But then, if you compare the ridership to M-Line, which have 2700pphpd for maximum load in 2007 and generates about 75,000 riders a day, 3500pphpd+airport demand = 100,000 sounds about right

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

When will the NDP start claiming they would have built the Canada Line bigger, instead of not at all?

Don't forget Carol James' only comments on the day it opened was that she felt it was built in the wrong place.

Had it been built it along the Arbutus Corridor some time next decade we wouldn't have to worry about crowded trains today. Our loss.

[mr.x]

comments from the Sun:





Sharon

August 22, 2009 - 12:06 AM
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Heard the same nonsense about "numbers" re the Golden Ears Bridge. Ya know, the bridge that has like 10 cars on it. On the whole bridge. Check it out Vancouver Sun. The bridge is empty most times. It's a ridiculous waste of money.

No wonder the province is broke. And how many millions of taxpayer money was spent on the Canada Line and it's run by a private operator? What is going on?


some responses

August 21, 2009 - 11:37 PM
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to Ibitz... I just tried it with a yahoo address (a fake one, format: [email protected]) with no problem. Browser shouldn't matter. Are you sure you typed it in properly?

To "At capacity already": Mark I Skytrain: 80 passengers/car, 4 cars in train = 320 max capacity. Mark II Skytrain: 130 passengers/car, 2 cars in train = 260 max capacity. CanadaLine Skytrain: 400 passengers max capacity per train (2 cars).


Hrm

August 21, 2009 - 11:15 PM
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Ibitz, have you considered trying to type in a positive comment followed by a negative one? Maybe they filter the bad comments out. =P

That sucks that you had a texting bus driver. I had one that was talking on his cellphone for a long time and forgot to STOP at the Macdonald & Broadway 99 stop even though many people pulled the string to get off, and at one point, when he drove past the stop, a passenger walked up to him and asked to be stopped. He apologized and I'm sure he was embarrassed...but not too cool to talk on the bus while at work and MISS the stop entirely! Ended up being about 2 blocks away from the actual stop.


TJ visits

August 21, 2009 - 11:12 PM
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I'm a little miffed with the private operator thing. The Canada Line is great and all...but is a private company needed to operate the turnstiles? Can't Translink buy the technology and hire its own staff to operate it? Is that too hard to ask? Translink will be losing money if they do this...and weren't they the ones asking for more money?? I have a feeling politics had something to do with this and as a result, a private company is reaping the financial rewards for this stupid decision.


fred

August 21, 2009 - 10:41 PM
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False numbers,forcing people to the Canada line by diverting buses from Surrey,Whiterock, to Richmond rather than downtown to artificialy boost ridership,all a shell game to fool the gulible public,just another boomdoggle,regardless of how flashy the Canada line is!


PC

August 21, 2009 - 10:33 PM
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How did they deduct average number of riders per day based on gross sales per day when some or those sales are for Faresavers (book of 10 tickets).

Without turnstiles how does Translink really determine if they've reached the 100,000 rider/day threshold? What if the private operator disputes these numbers and demands taxpayers give them more operating subsidies? How is Translink going to protect the taxpayer without an accurate way, such as turnstiles, to measure the actual number of riders?


To Al

August 21, 2009 - 10:02 PM
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beg to difer...the reason why public transit is costly is because whenever there are savings Unions wants a piece of the action, so there are never really any savings. Private is better for this type of operations because Employees understand someone has to make money...for public transit not really.


At capacity already

August 21, 2009 - 9:28 PM
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There is a max cpacity of two cars on this run. It was jammed pack. There are no staff at the machines at the airport. 4 machines and a huge lineup already.

Why would it be designed for such small capacity?


Rider

August 21, 2009 - 8:54 PM
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I was astonished at how busy the train was today and what a fantastic ride! My only comment is that the hgiher fares to the airport should start right now, not February. This thing would be paid for in no time.


Al

August 21, 2009 - 8:49 PM
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Private Operator? Just great. So its not public transit but private transit at the tax payer expense. Didnt know there was enough margin to make a profit off PUBLIC TRANSIT. Oh right there isnt hence the subsidy. So the surcharge all also goes to this company which by the way you didnt even mention their name in this piece.

Two billion in public funds(how much of those millions in bonuses because the line was finished ahead of schedule and law suites from the Cambie merchants), a subsidy to the operator on top of the usual subsidy for transit. Nice deal for the operator. How is this a partnership? Did this un-named company invest in the construction of the line? I dont think so. Are they paying for the turnstiles on the Canada Line which were at one time promised for this year. Just what is at stake for them? Is there an out in this 35 year swindle? The line looks great and is fast and quiet and air conditioned though the stations are small but why does a private company get to make a profit off of the publics investment?


It'd awesome

August 21, 2009 - 8:35 PM
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Took it three times this week!!!!! Way to go BC!


Ibitz

August 21, 2009 - 7:43 PM
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When I used Translink's online form to comment on a texting bus driver, I got a message saying that my Yahoo e-mail address was invalid. I tried my Excite mail address and got the same thing. I use Apple Safari and thought this might be the problem so I tried Opera and it was the same thing. Went to the library where they use Windows-based computers and again, their online form wouldn't accept my e-mail address. Is this Translink's way of not dealing with the public?

[NetMapel]

So, with regards to the Canada Line passport, where do one go and finish collecting all the stamps ? Are there still attendants at each station who can stamp your passport ?

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Don't forget Carol James' only comments on the day it opened was that she felt it was built in the wrong place.

If we built it down Arbutus she would have complained that it should have been built down Cambie as the Arbutus corridor will will never have the same ridership potential as Cambie

Can't make a nutter happy I'm afraid

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

So, with regards to the Canada Line passport, where do one go and finish collecting all the stamps ? Are there still attendants at each station who can stamp your passport ?

you snooze your loose

[Jared]

I think some of you guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves. It's been open less than a week; much too early to form any conclusions about successes or failures just yet (and certainly too early to talk about platform sizes and ultimate capacities). Let's see what the numbers look like in November or so (buses have been integrated for a while, "tourism" of the line has died down, etc.) before calling for more trains.

That being said, the project's technical director did mentioned to me that he was very pleasantly surprised with the ridership numbers, and they may have to order more trains sooner than they thought (don't read into that comment too much, it doesn't mean they're already ordering more).


By the way, they are aware that there's been complaints about signage. But if you can open a multi-billion dollar piece of equipment, and the biggest problem is a couple signs, I'd say you're doing pretty good.

[mrjauk]

Wow! The level of ignorance in the comments to the Vancouver Sun article on Canada Line ridership is depressing, though not surprising.

[Gordon]

The raw ridership numbers are good , but next weeks numbers will be more important because alot of the people who are just trying it because it's new will have done so.

[mr.x]

^ i'm pretty sure there will be a marginal decrease in ridership, obviously nothing too much.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by lightrail

It shows how spoiled we are with Skytrain LIM system - the Skytrain expo and Millenium lines are very fast by world metro standards. The Canada Line runs about the same speed as most heavy rail metro systems - maybe a little fast on average. 36km/h average speed is the same as Toronto's subway. Skytrain is just a fast little bugger at 43km/h average.

*sigh*

Don't know how many times I (and others) have to say this.

When there are more frequent stops, average speeds decline.

I don't know why some people find this hard to understand. Right now the Expo and Millennium lines have an average stop spacing of 1.5km or so. Do you really think they would still average 43km/h if you added 30% more stops?

Granted, there are a few places where the Canada Line slows down for tight curves (i.e. QE Park), but this is no different than how a Westbound train leaves Broadway, but doesn't start accerating to top speed until it gets around the curve above Commercial Dr. The only reason people notice it less of the existing SkyTrain is because it tends to happen right near the station (Broadway, Main, eventually Evergreen pulling into Lougheed), and people assume it's going slow because it's just arriving/leaving a station.

This has nothing to do with the propulsion system, and everything to do with car length (and hence turning radius). If the Canada Line trains were shorter, they would be able to handle tighter turns (similar to how a Smart Car can pull a tighter turn than a 40 foot bus). Now, some types of trains can actually have their wheels rotate around a vertical axis a bit, which means the wheels can adapt to the curve a bit better, but I have no idea how this compares for Bombardier vs. Rotem.

If they smoothed out the curves, of course it would go faster, but doing that represents huge costs. The alignment on Cambie runs only a couple of feet away from a pipe that delivers the majority of Richmond's water supply - not something that can be easily tampered with. The only way you could realistically straighten out those curves is to bore (either straight from 41st to KE, and no future 33rd stop) or start angling west just after you leave 41st, and go under a bunch of houses until you his the westward buldge on Cambie at 33rd, and then gradually angle back east to KE. However, this is obviously much more expensive (doubly so because the geology of this area makes tunnel boring difficult).

Lastly, acceleration rates are generally determined by passenger comfort (1.1m/s^2 is typical), NOT by what the train is technically capable of handling. Both are likely able to accelerate faster than this. Top speeds of both train types are about 90km/h. The only other major factor that affects average speeds is dwell times, which are based on how much boarding and alighting activity is occuring at a given station. Generally, dwell times vary by both station and time of day.

[SFUVancouver]

There is an absolutely huge crowd at Waterfront station, easily 500 to 600 people. I took one look at it before turning around so I didn't stay long enough to hear any announcements. The platform was full and about a third of the walkway to SkyTrain Classic was backed up.

Anyone know anything about this?