ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[cybele]

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo

Gay hairdresser.

Where in the heck does that stereotype come from? That's not fair at all to the zillions of straight guys out there doing hair.

[RobMidtowner]

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

I don't think it is-you can be shot anywhere. And your presumption that re-opening a venue will have the same consquences is only party supported by the fact that the odds of getting shot in America is really not that dependent on where you are anymore. One can get shot at the gym, a church, post office, work, school, a nightclub, a street corner, in an urban setting, or a suburban setting. So to say that keeping a club from opening to keep people from being shot is weak at best and is merely a ploy to hide ones prejudices.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[(four 0 four)]

Originally Posted by cybele

Where in the heck does that stereotype come from? That's not fair at all to the zillions of straight guys out there doing hair.

It might be more appropriate to say "both" instead of "zillions".

[BlueSangha]

Originally Posted by cybele

Where in the heck does that stereotype come from? That's not fair at all to the zillions of straight guys out there doing hair.

Nor is it fair to me, as I am gay, and not a hairdresser. What I am trying to say about stereotypes is that while there might be some truth in that stereotype-the whole truth (the objective truth) does not reside in that stereotype. And it would be disrespectful to those labled by it and to reason, if we held them to be the truth of the matter. They are not tautologous.

[RobMidtowner]

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

This statement would be true if:

1. If infact facts and not opinion were used-not stereotypes and prejudices parading as facts.

2. If everyone bought into realism, which is quite apparent that not everyone on this forum does, esp those who are trying to sell their notion of an ideal midtown neighborhood.

3. The paradigm was using a way of viewing reality as based on facts and correct assumptions not filtered through the passions of those making their
case.

4. Being "realistic" were true to the reality of the situation in which case (1) above would indicate that there should be reasonable doubt.

You want to know a fact? Seven bullets were shot outside of Primal two weeks ago at 3am on a Friday night. Would you like to explain how this is unrelated to the night club being right there? Because according to you, one can be shot anywhere right?

[BlueSangha]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

You want to know a fact? Seven bullets were shot outside of Primal two weeks ago at 3am on a Friday night. Would you like to explain how this is unrelated to the night club being right there? Because according to you, one can be shot anywhere right?

And nine shots were fired into a man in my apartment complex parking lot, a guy opened fire and shot some women at a gym, an anti-semite opened fire in a museum...I wasn't denying the fact that people get shot outside of night clubs-I was however stating you can get shot anywhere, and its true.

All I am saying, if you don't want a night club in your neighborhood-take the emotion out of the argument and stick to the objective facts.

Anytime anyone allows their emotions, their prejudices, and stereotypes to be presented with those facts they run the risk of being perceived in the same manner as they have here on this forum. And all that could have been avoided if people had stuck to the hard facts. And that website did not do anything to help matters, it was not reflective of the reality of the midtown neighborhood(in my opinion)-perhaps if they projected themselves as being more inclusive, they would have ganered broader support.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

Nor is it fair to me, as I am gay, and not a hairdresser.

Very true!

[RobMidtowner]

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

And nine shots were fired into a man in my apartment complex parking lot, a guy opened fire and shot some women at a gym, an anti-semite opened fire in a museum...I wasn't denying the fact that people get shot outside of night clubs-I was however stating you can get shot anywhere, and its true.

All I am saying, if you don't want a night club in your neighborhood-take the emotion out of the argument and stick to the objective facts.

Anytime anyone allows their emotions, their prejudices, and stereotypes to be presented with those facts they run the risk of being perceived in the same manner as they have here on this forum. And all that could have been avoided if people had stuck to the hard facts. And that website did not do anything to help matters, it was not reflective of the reality of the midtown neighborhood(in my opinion)-perhaps if they projected themselves as being more inclusive, they would have ganered broader support.

Is what I said anything but objective facts? Have I not left emotions, prejudices, and stereotypes out? You're wrong to accuse me of being an emotional racist just because I don't want to deal with people breaking the law in my neighborhood.

[BlueSangha]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

Is what I said anything but objective facts? Have I not left emotions, prejudices, and stereotypes out? You're wrong to accuse me of being an emotional racist just because I don't want to deal with people breaking the law in my neighborhood.

I never accused anyone of being an emotional racist-nor was I zeroing in on you specifically. It is just my opinion that a cause would be better served when sticking to the facts. I am not saying you in particular have presented anything other than the facts, but no one has cited documented facts from reputable sources-only instead they have given descriptive accounts of people, their behavior and their material possessions. I think you can present statistical facts and quality of life issues without labeling the guilty or attacking them for who they are, but that's happens all the time on this thread. It has been so easy on this thread to digress into blaming and name calling, and it always comes back the "isms". All it does is distort reality and create distance between people, which inturn limits how productive either side can be.

[RobMidtowner]

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

I never accused anyone of being an emotional racist-nor was I zeroing in on you specifically. It is just my opinion that a cause would be better served when sticking to the facts. I am not saying you in particular have presented anything other than the facts, but no one has cited documented facts from reputable sources-only instead they have given descriptive accounts of people, their behavior and their material possessions. I think you can present statistical facts and quality of life issues without labeling the guilty or attacking them for who they are, but that's happens all the time on this thread. It has been so easy on this thread to digress into blaming and name calling, and it always comes back the "isms". All it does is distort reality and create distance between people, which inturn limits how productive either side can be.

Ok, it's hard to tell when you use the word "you" so much. I agree that facts are always the best when talking about these types of issues. But isn't the real issue whether or not it would be wise to allow another night club (a huge one in fact) to open in a neighborhood where the existing night clubs already cause problems for police officers and residents? It's like spending money on a new pair of shoes when you're already buried in debt, it's just not a good idea. Some people may think the new club is a great idea, but my guess is it will be a tough sell to current residents and developers in the area.

[BlueSangha]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

Ok, it's hard to tell when you use the word "you" so much. I agree that facts are always the best when talking about these types of issues. But isn't the real issue whether or not it would be wise to allow another night club (a huge one in fact) to open in a neighborhood where the existing night clubs already cause problems for police officers and residents? It's like spending money on a new pair of shoes when you're already buried in debt, it's just not a good idea. Some people may think the new club is a great idea, but my guess is it will be a tough sell to current residents and developers in the area.

It is the real issue that whether or not it would be wise to allow another club to open, and some people like the idea, and some don't. But the one who wins will be the one who can present the most consice argument, and that means only presenting what is necessarily relevant. It is mainly a quality of life issue, and also public safety-does the city have the resources to ensure that safety. And the more inclusive the group making the case, the more it shows solidarity (unless you have other ways of influencing)...all kidding aside. But I think you have to show that your willing to compromise with the otherside too, there needs to be a sense of balance. There is no balance when "isms" enter the conversation. There is no balance in all or nothing decisions. We'll see how it pans out.

[vjhe]

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo

I think 'people are prejudiced' is a better stereotype than 'white people are racist.' But well said vjhe.

Prejudiced may be better for you sevensixtwo but um, I meant what I said. White's in America have a long standing history of being racist, as well as prejudiced and I have experienced both more times than I would like to admit.

And lord let's not mention in the South where I was born and raised and currently reside. Or the north for that matter, where my experiences have been even MORE blatant. Heck, one can even argue that one of the major political parties uses racist tactics on a consistent basis.

Police pulling me over at 2am to "check if you were wearing your seatbelt" or a policeman shooting a black man prematurely is based in prejudice; using power to oppress a person or a group of people based upon race is racist. I am familiar with both and they mostly have been at the hands of whites. White's in America being racists, and since you brought it up sevensixtwo, prejudice as well. Aren't those novel ideas?

This will be my last post on this subject in this thread, but let me say that though myself as well as my family have good reason to be bitter toward white people in this country, I harbor no ill feelings toward any group or race and anyone who is familiar with me on this site know that.

[BlueSangha]

Originally Posted by vjhe

This will be my last post on this subject in this thread, but let me say that though myself as well as my family have good reason to be bitter toward white people in this country, I harbor no ill feelings toward any group or race and anyone who is familiar with me on this site know that.

VJHE: I am sure that you know this through your own experience, but there are a lot of us white folks that are truely on your side, and I hope you get that impression reading any of my replies to those who insist on including such ill-willed reasoning in their discourse. I am sorry that your experience has been such that you would have reason to be so bitter towards us. My hope is that if we keep the diologue going long enough, eventually those who use such defective reasoning will see how counter productive it really is, and that in the end not only are they hurting others, but themselves as well. It takes a man of great strength and courage to cast off ill feelings esp towards those who have wronged you, and that is something no man can take from you.

[ashbowl]

~CAUTION~ Real Construction news....

Nothing huge, but here we go.

CVS has started work on a building at Midtown Place on Ponce. Saw the sign and workers today.

[BlueSangha]

Originally Posted by ashbowl

~CAUTION~ Real Construction news....

Nothing huge, but here we go.

CVS has started work on a building at Midtown Place on Ponce. Saw the sign and workers today.

OMG! I think I just wet myself

[Fiorenza]

Hey, that strip needs all the help it can get!

[scpatl4now]

I think when you argue about something like a club opening you should also take into account what kind of revenue it will generate (private and taxes). There are lots of other businesses that benefit from a club opening. I did quite a bit of neon for Primal (when it first opened...have no idea if its still there), and let me tell you (as if you guys don't know) things aren't quite bustling in Atlanta right now for most businesses. My question is, how much revenue is the property generating now for the city as opposed to if a club was there? A clubs average life span is 2-3 yrs (if they are lucky)...so why not have a club as opposed to nothing. They generate jobs and income for lots of people that need the work. That's not racial or cultural...just economics short term

[jew4life4948]

As a young folk.
We need night clubs.
Preferably one's that are clustered together.
And are either an earshot away from a train or decent taxi stand.

Now I know Underground was an epic fail.
I think it'd be a great residential expansion for GSU.

But in Chicago (where I'm here studying the Urban Planning)
The Weed Street District works pretty well.
The website may look a little AS'y, but in reality it's a pretty decent vibe.

http://www.weedstreetdistrict.com/

[gttx]

Originally Posted by jew4life4948

As a young folk.
We need night clubs.
Preferably one's that are clustered together.
And are either an earshot away from a train or decent taxi stand.

Now I know Underground was an epic fail.
I think it'd be a great residential expansion for GSU.

But in Chicago (where I'm here studying the Urban Planning)
The Weed Street District works pretty well.
The website may look a little AS'y, but in reality it's a pretty decent vibe.

http://www.weedstreetdistrict.com/

Well, I am young, and I have very little desire to ever go to a club like Vision. Give me a lounge with a good drink menu, or even just a complete dive bar, and I will be quite happy.

And, coincidentally, I am also working in Chicago for the summer. You can find me in Boystown (although, just to buck the trend, I'm not gay).

[Fiorenza]

Are you sure about that?