The future of Ottawa's Transit

[canadave]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

I read that on a website, and I shouted WHAT?



So basically TWO drivers per double deckers? Our operation costs were decreasing so OC Transpo figured that they needed to put them back up in some way?

As I understand it, they don't have a choice, it's a Ministry of Transportation regulation.

[Deez]

^Correct. However, I'm 90% sure that this was only temporary and they have now has received approval to run with only 1 operator.

[Kitchissippi]

Like it's not obvious to anyone that they've just boarded a double decker? This problem if it happens is self correcting -- some other passenger is going to say, "excuse me, I need to climb up the stairs."

[Richard Eade]

It's not as bad as it sounds. The extra employee riding 'Shot-—' in the top was there to make sure people were sitting when upstairs: The rules do not permit standees in the upper deck. Also, there is a rule against standing in/sitting on/occupying the stair-well while the bus is in motion. There were rumours that this person was to yell at people who tried to stand and go down-stairs before the bus came to a full and complete stop, but the time I was on one, the fellow just seemed to be making sure that people were moving carefully and holding on. It is possible that the ‘sway’ is greater up there, where the air is rare.

As for the cost of an extra person, these were people called in from disability leave so they were being paid to do nothing any way. At least this way, they were put to use for the pay, satisfying the Provincial rule.

I have also heard that the extra person is no longer required since the DDs have been fully licensed now. I do not know if there is still an extra person during this ‘instructional’ time.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Like it's not obvious to anyone that they've just boarded a double decker? This problem if it happens is self correcting -- some other passenger is going to say, "excuse me, I need to climb up the stairs."

Seriously, there is too much regulation. Some times, it's good to have people injured, so they can learn their lessons.

[Number24]

The guys riding the second deck were usually fun to talk to - they have nothing else to do other than tell people to wait until the bus stops before going down the stairs. I was taken aback the first time I heard this - told the guy I had lived in and visited England many times and in all my time riding a double decker had never seen an incident where someone fell on the stairs.

Now, someone falling off the back of a moving Routemaster (with the open platform at the back), that's a different story!

[harls]

Is this second person baloney akin to the dude that rides in the middle of a TTC train (slide window open, look left, look right - go back to reading book)?

[Rathgrith]

^Nah, that's because of all so powerful TTC union and the struggle to have unionized labour working positions that are completely redundant.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

http://www.interprovincial-transit-strategy.ca/

Upcoming consultations on Ottawa-Gatineau transit

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Upcoming+consultations+Ottawa+Gatineau+transit/1584945/story.html
THE OTTAWA CITIZENMAY 11, 2009COMMENTS (1)

OTTAWA — Two upcoming consultations will seek public opinions on how Ottawa's and Gatineau's transit systems should be better integrated.

The National Capital Commission is holding events on Thursday, May 14 and Tuesday, May 19, featuring open houses to show off the commission's early thoughts on how to provide better service across the Ottawa River, and small discussion groups to gather individuals' opinions. The NCC is leading the study process, which also involves the cities of Ottawa and Gatineau.

To participate in the "Interconnect Café" groups, residents must register in advance, the commission says. That can be done on a website devoted to the study, www.interprovincial-transit-strategy.ca, or by calling Marley Ransom at PACE Public Affairs & Community Engagement, at 613-860-1685, extension 204.

The Thursday consultation is at Ottawa City Hall, 110 Laurier Ave. W. in Ottawa, from 3:30 p.m. to 9 p.m.

The Tuesday consultation is at Gatineau City Hall, 25 rue Laurier in Gatineau, from 4:30 p.m. to 9 p.m.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

the latest public consultatinon report is available online, there's also a survey you can complete.

http://www.interprovincial-transit-strategy.ca

[Franky]

oops.

[waterloowarrior]

some BRT shots this summer from http://www.flickr.com/photos/ottawabusgallery/
I've noticed the backup a few times when the roads were clear, wonder what's been happening?

[Suzie]

If I had to guess, the backups happened when the pavement on the Mackenzie King Bridge got chewed up and potholes began to appear (again). This limited the number of buses that could stop at the station on the Bridge at any given time.

I don’t know why the entire bridge deck was not made out of concrete. Right now, they have to replace parts of the pavement every year.

[eternallyme]

The 10 or so traffic lights downtown are an enormous bottleneck for transit operations.

[lrt's friend]

Here is a video of a landmark transit event from May 14, 2004.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9OcLgkxY6Q

It was a time of great hope that has since disintegrated. Listen to Bob Chiarelli's comment about looking back to that day from 20 years forward.

Here we are now, more than 5 years later, and we still don't have a funding announcement to support the much more expensive replacement plan. Yet, we are now further along the way with planning the new plan than we were in 2004 with the original plan. The higher levels of government are obviously questioning the merits of the new plan and especially the risks of cost overruns.

One has to wonder when we reach 2024, will we be happy with the results of the intervening years? Or will we be crying about a missed opportunity?

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The higher levels of government are obviously questioning the merits of the new plan and especially the risks of cost overruns.

In other words, the higher levels of government are doing what they're supposed to do when approached for $7bn?

Um, okay.

At the end of the day, this due diligence will lead everyone to the inescapable conclusion that we have (at long last) a plan that MAKES SENSE.

- The Transitway was designed to be converted to rail.
- It was always understood that the downtown section was going to be grade separated.
- It's been talked about for eons how good it would be to have a line to the airport.

I mean, short of the PRT fantasies and other daydreams, this is pretty much it. People who are all atwitter that the billions aren't flowing the instant the plan is in the newspaper need to chill out. And the busybodies who always manage to be unhappy about something, well... they'll get over it. The rest of the city will move on.

[waterloowarrior]

A downtown subway/metro has been planned for Ottawa for almost 100 years... it's time to finally build it. While I was a big supporter of the old plan, I am looking forward to seeing the new plan get built. I agree it was a terrible short-sighted decision to cancel the line, but now the majority of the NS rail is going to be built anyways as part of the new plan. After seeing all the development that the NS line was beginning to attract years before it was built, I can't wait to see how Tunneys, Blair, St. Laurent and other areas will redevelop with our new metro system.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

In other words, the higher levels of government are doing what they're supposed to do when approached for $7bn?

Um, okay.

At the end of the day, this due diligence will lead everyone to the inescapable conclusion that we have (at long last) a plan that MAKES SENSE.

- The Transitway was designed to be converted to rail.
- It was always understood that the downtown section was going to be grade separated.
- It's been talked about for eons how good it would be to have a line to the airport.

I mean, short of the PRT fantasies and other daydreams, this is pretty much it. People who are all atwitter that the billions aren't flowing the instant the plan is in the newspaper need to chill out. And the busybodies who always manage to be unhappy about something, well... they'll get over it. The rest of the city will move on.

The problem with converting the transitway to "LRT" is that what results is not LRT, it's light metro.

I've been crunching numbers replacing Urbanaut in the "Transportation Infrastructure Requirement Study" and came up with a saving of at least 20%. That's hundreds of millions of dollars. Without changing any routes or making special use of Urbanaut capabilities. More can probably be done.

Urbanaut is lighter and so elevating sections to make it grade separated and so automated is cheaper (and more elegant). Automation reduces the cost of vehicles because headways are reduced and vehicle are reused more.

Cost of maintenance yards are cheaper because no tracks are needed in the yards - Urbanaut uses rubber tires so asphalt as is used for regular buses is OK.

Given our city is relatively small and that light metro is expensive and a waste of capacity, Urbanaut makes a lot of sense.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ only problem is Ottawa would bore the development costs and associated risks of the mode. What if you build all the lines and no one can deliver the vehicles? Or they end up costing twice as much? Even giving project bidders full technology choice in a capacity only RFP, like the Canada Line did in Vancouver, no company would bid with an unproven technology.

Probably would end up with a really wide (the passenger trains) automated metro, to keep the length of stations down to save boat loads of cash.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ only problem is Ottawa would bore the development costs and associated risks of the mode. What if you build all the lines and no one can deliver the vehicles? Or they end up costing twice as much? Even giving project bidders full technology choice in a capacity only RFP, like the Canada Line did in Vancouver, no company would bid with an unproven technology.

Probably would end up with a really wide (the passenger trains) automated metro, to keep the length of stations down to save boat loads of cash.

I agree there is some risk, though all technology seems to bear some risk. The first system will be ready sometime this year, so cost will be pretty much certain.

I agree here too, don't know why we are building 160 m stations everywhere on top of having grade-separated ROW. Most stations come in at over $3M! We are designing for double the capacity when a more cost-effective way would be to add another tunnel when and if it is needed after 2031. A second tunnel would increase service area in the city core on top of increasing capacity.

While we're at it, the SE transitway would be a better choice than putting another tunnel under Dow's lake. All the people in the high-rises along the South East Transitway will have to transfer at Hurdman. Why not run the trains along the SE transitway, through the core to Gatineau on the Prince of Whales bridge? The projected peak ridership for the Dow's lake route is 2800 per direction! The airport spur makes little economic sense either because of low ridership. It certainly isn't a priority for the airport people judging by their response at meetings. They want a wider airport parkway.

Automated LRT (light metro) will add to the cost because sections will have to be grade separated and elevating LRT isn't cheap. The Evergreen line in Vancouver will be 15% more expensive with ALRT. Urbanaut could reduce costs by 20% so a difference of over 30%...

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Franky

The problem with converting the transitway to "LRT" is that what results is not LRT, it's light metro.

I've been crunching numbers replacing Urbanaut in the "Transportation Infrastructure Requirement Study" and came up with a saving of at least 20%. That's hundreds of millions of dollars. Without changing any routes or making special use of Urbanaut capabilities. More can probably be done.

Urbanaut is lighter and so elevating sections to make it grade separated and so automated is cheaper (and more elegant). Automation reduces the cost of vehicles because headways are reduced and vehicle are reused more.

Cost of maintenance yards are cheaper because no tracks are needed in the yards - Urbanaut uses rubber tires so asphalt as is used for regular buses is OK.

Given our city is relatively small and that light metro is expensive and a waste of capacity, Urbanaut makes a lot of sense.

So, do you own shares in this Urbanaut company, or what?