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  #841  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 9:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DMTower View Post
If someone chooses to drink and drive, spacing the bars out isn't going to help anything. If anything, they'll drink at one bar, drive to the next, drink more, drive home. It's flawed logic.
Agreed. It's like when the Alabama legislature "Freed the Hops," which cleared the way for gourmet, higher alcohol content, beers to be sold and brewed in Alabama. When this went through, people were whining and complaining, saying things like "Great, let's just make it so teens get drunk more quickly!" or "Yay! Let's let EVERYONE get drunk more quickly!"

The fact is, if teens wanted to get drunk quickly, they wouldn't look to gourmet beers, they'd look to liquors that have a much higher alcohol content, ie: Jack Daniels. If teens want to get drunk, they'll get drunk, with or without gourmet beers. This SLC situation is similar, if people choose to drink and drive, they're going to drink and drive, with or without some set distance between the bars.

As far as an aesthetic reason for the spaces, I can kinda understand it. I mean, we don't want downtown SLC looking like Bourbon Street.
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  #842  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 10:51 AM
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Switching topics...does anyone know why there aren't street performers in SLC? Is it illegal or just not profitable for the performers? It seems to me that street performers and crowds sometimes will go hand in hand, and would seem like a good way for the city to get more people out walking about on Main Street during the evenings, just a thought. Any comments?
     
     
  #843  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 11:25 AM
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That's a good question jtrent. There's definately a lot of talent in the area. Not sure, but I'm think it's legal, if you receive a permit. I think that right now it wouldn't be profitable enough until a more consistant amount of foot traffic is established with the completion of CCC and continued buildup of Main. Once a pattern of increased traffic is established, I'm sure we'll see more street performers.

In Santa Monica you have to audition for the privledge. Certain areas such as the 3rd Street Promenade are designated for street performers. The talent is amazing and very entertaining. The Wasatch Metro area tends to have a high concentration of performing talent. I would like to see an area with high traffic volume such as the future Regent or Richards streets include a healthy dose of street performers.
     
     
  #844  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 11:45 AM
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City views from the 7th and 11th floors of Tower 1

I ran across these pics from the 7th and 11th floors of Tower 1 on flickr by one of my favorite Photographers, Tucapel. I don't think we've seen pics of the actual north views yet from Tower 1, just the conceptuals. Anyway, I thought many of you guys would get as big a kick out of these two pics as I did. I wanted to share them forum-wide, so follow this link and scroll down.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=168604

Last edited by delts145; Aug 1, 2009 at 12:39 PM.
     
     
  #845  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Smuttynose1 View Post
I agree many great places are found off the beaten path, but I can't see the justification for keeping the 2 bars a block rule. It doesn't mean the city necessarily has to designate an area a 'club district,' just not keep in place an archaic regulation. Often restaurants, bars and clubs will organically sprout up around each other and that's generally a good thing. It tends to infuse some extra life in the area.

Below is the Haymarket in Boston, which is familiar to any tourist, but bar-clusters are in all the vibrant neighborhoods, from Harvard Square to Allston.

I'm not opposed to a club district at all and I'm definitely for getting rid of the 2 bars per block rule. I just meant that having a club district isn't going to automatically make SLC's nightlife better.

The hot clubs are always cyclical... for a couple of years one club is hot and then a different one. It's always rotating and the clubs in one specified region are not always going to be the funnest, best clubs.
     
     
  #846  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 1:51 PM
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While I am not necessarily supporting the 2 per block policy, I am trying to defend the logic. My understanding is that the idea is to keep people from bar hopping and getting slammed drunk and then driving (or walking on to a private plaza ). If removing this law would lead to more drunk driving deaths, then I am probably not for it.
The reason we have a 2 per block policy is because West Temple where the Salt Palace currently stands used to be a long block full of bars and the LDS church didn't like having all of those bars congregated together so close to Temple Square.

So, they bought up the land, tore down the buildings, donated the land for the Salt Palace construction and got laws passed to prevent a cluster of bars from forming again in the future.
     
     
  #847  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
The reason we have a 2 per block policy is because West Temple where the Salt Palace currently stands used to be a long block full of bars and the LDS church didn't like having all of those bars congregated together so close to Temple Square.

So, they bought up the land, tore down the buildings, donated the land for the Salt Palace construction and got laws passed to prevent a cluster of bars from forming again in the future.
Do you have any links as proof for this? It seems simplistic. You would have to get a lot of property owners to sell out, which seems difficult.
     
     
  #848  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
That's a good question jtrent. There's definately a lot of talent in the area. Not sure, but I'm think it's legal, if you receive a permit. I think that right now it wouldn't be profitable enough until a more consistant amount of foot traffic is established with the completion of CCC and continued buildup of Main. Once a pattern of increased traffic is established, I'm sure we'll see more street performers.
There's an old guy who plays his cello outside Salt Lake Film Society's Broadway theater all the time... and there used to be performers outside the Gateway Mall's theater that I think were brought in by the mall itself, but I haven't seen them at the Gateway in a while.
     
     
  #849  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 2:04 PM
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Well if you guys are right then there will not be a spike in DUI's. I tend to agree with the logic that it won't lead to more problems, but if it does its not worth it.
     
     
  #850  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 2:26 PM
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Do you have any links as proof for this? It seems simplistic. You would have to get a lot of property owners to sell out, which seems difficult.
It was mentioned in a documentary produced by KUED about SLC's history. I just searched for links, but didn't find that particular info online, yet.
     
     
  #851  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 2:59 PM
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Fine art has home in the midst of a construction zone

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7366885

SALT LAKE CITY -- When you think of the great works of art by Rembrandt, Degas and others, you probably think those paintings are mostly hanging in museums in Europe. Some are, yes, but there's a huge collection right in downtown Salt Lake City.

In a little gallery on Main Street there are hundreds of pieces by many of the old masters. It's all original work worth millions, and some are for sale.

The Hope Gallery and Museum of Fine Art is located a block away from the City Creek construction project. Owner Soren Edsberg says he always enjoys the reaction of visitors.

"When they stick their head in, they go, 'Oh, wow!" Edsberg said.

Edsberg, an artist himself, has been collecting art for five decades. He travels the world searching and buying various pieces. The collection is extensive.

"We go all the way back to Durer in the 1500s. We have quite a few Durer's, and we have a fairly big collection of Rembrandt's, and we go through the ages. But my special focus is the 1800s," Edsberg said.

Each room has a different feel. Some feature landscapes. There's also a portrait room. And the gallery has one of the largest Carl Block collections in the world, including his impressive religious works.

Edsberg says there are about 500 pieces here and each has a unique history.

For example, one painting by Elizabeth Baumann, titled "Reading the Scriptures," was commissioned by Napoleon.

"It was finished in 1850, and then it was in his mansion in London until he passed away, and then it was donated to the French Embassy, and now it's here in Salt Lake City," Edsberg said.

Many artists have painted the Amalfi Coast of Italy. When one particular one came up for sale, art collectors from all over the world bid on it, but Edsberg got it.

"And right after, two Italian art dealers came up to me and say, 'Hey, we came all the way over from Italy to get that painting. Can we make a deal?" Edsberg recalled. He told them no.

Edsberg says his collection is not just for lovers of rare art. He's happy to educate anyone who wants to learn more.

"For people who love art, it's such a treat, but a lot of people haven't been exposed to great art. They really haven't. And many times people will go into museums and it can be a boring experience, but it's not here," Edsberg said.

Edsberg has two art galleries and, as it turns out, both are located on Main Streets; the other one is on historic Main Street in Park City.

http://www.hopegallery.com/
     
     
  #852  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2009, 6:24 PM
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There's an old guy who plays his cello outside Salt Lake Film Society's Broadway theater all the time... and there used to be performers outside the Gateway Mall's theater that I think were brought in by the mall itself, but I haven't seen them at the Gateway in a while.
I was just at the Gateway theatre last night, and there was a musician outside. By the looks of his guitar case, he was doing rather well.
Also, when I walked the gallery stroll a month or so ago, there were several street performers, including the dance company Samba Fogo that literally taught a dance to the onlookers and had a good 100 people dancing in the street. It was great. I also listend to a full jazz band set up on main street and 1st south just a few nights ago. In the summer, it isn't hard to find street performers. I see them somewhere every weekend, at least. It's also common to find them indoors. Places like the Bayou, the Atlantic Cafe, and others have live music in the evenings.
     
     
  #853  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2009, 5:26 AM
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As far as an aesthetic reason for the spaces, I can kinda understand it. I mean, we don't want downtown SLC looking like Bourbon Street.
We don't? Really? I kind of think it would be great.
     
     
  #854  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2009, 5:28 AM
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We don't? Really? I kind of think it would be great.
Have you been to Bourbon Street?
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  #855  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2009, 9:21 AM
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Flawed logic because generally they're going to get smashed regardless.

It's the same problem I have with the 3.2 beer laws here. You think it actually stems drunkenness? No. People just drink more beer to get drunk, which turns them into a disgusting and fat drunk.
To be honest I think it helps somewhat (in an annoying way perhaps). Though I realize it's not always the case. But that's just from personal experience of myself and others I know.

To be honest I think people get a little bent out of shape over the whole bar/club thing. Is 2 a block really not enough? Sometimes people act like a city is entirely worthless, and life in general, if they can't get smashed at any possible given moment or place.
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  #856  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2009, 12:05 PM
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Gallivan Center to host alternative arts festival

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705320556/Gallivan-Center-to-host-alternative-arts-festival.html

An inaugural Craft Lake City art and crafts festival will be Aug. 8 at the Gallivan Center.

Craft Lake City, an outdoor alternative arts festival, will showcase more than 80 vendors specializing in handmade goods. The art event is a chance for craft enthusiasts or those who are just starting out to meet with others interested in alternative art....


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  #857  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2009, 1:07 PM
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Salt Lake County convention hotel: Suite deal or sour pill?
Hospitality » County can learn from other cities where such ventures have succeeded -- and flopped.

By Jeremiah Stettler
The Salt Lake Tribune


Looking for a suite deal, Salt Lake County?

More than a dozen U.S. cities already have, hoping to capture conference-goers -- and their cash -- by building high-rise headquarters hotels in the hearts of their convention districts.

These massive Marriotts, Hiltons and Hyatts are redefining the convention industry as cities from San Diego to Boston now lean on these 700- to 1,700-room accommodations as selling points for large-scale gatherings -- a trend that has reached eight of the 10 markets that Salt Lake County considers direct competitors.

And most of the time, local governments helped pay for them.

Now, Salt Lake County must decide whether to follow suit. Will it make a difference for this Rocky Mountain metropolis that, according to convention officials, has lost nearly 600,000 visitors during the past three years because of its lack of a convention-center hotel? And will Utahns sign off on a public subsidy for a largely private venture?


The Marriott Hotel near the Riverwalk in San Antonio, Texas. (Courtesy San Antonio Marriott Rivercenter & Riverwalk Hotels)

First, a word of warning for Salt Lake County: Some of these suite deals nationally have turned sour.

Consider Houston and St. Louis. Both were losing convention traffic to other cities with more hotel rooms. So both decided to build a headquarters hotel and rely, in part, on public financing to help do it.

One city found success, the other failure. The Hilton Americas Hotel in Houston has performed so well city officials are considering building a second one. Conversely, the Renaissance St. Louis Grand & Suites Hotel has failed to keep up on its debt payment and, this year, fell into foreclosure, though it remains open.


Courtesy Renaissance St. Louis Grand Hotel.


The Hilton Americas in Houston. (Courtesy of Hilton)

The question is: How can Salt Lake County ensure that its convention hotel performs like Houston's and not like St. Louis'?

Risk versus reward » The county hopes to reach that answer in coming months as a newly formed panel of government leaders, hoteliers and surrounding stakeholders weighs the financial feasibility -- and the possibility of public support -- for a project that could reach $300 million. If built, the hotel would offer more-expansive accommodations than any other lodge in the state with up to 1,000 rooms, a full-service restaurant and an estimated 90,000 square feet of meeting space.

Little America ranks as the capital's largest hotel with 850 rooms, followed by the adjacent Grand America with 775.

Scott Beck, president and CEO of the Salt Lake Convention and Visitors Bureau, argues a headquarters hotel is the next "evolution" for the state's convention industry. Its absence, he asserts, is the main reason Utah lost an estimated 13,000 delegates this year from the American Mathematical Society,

American Society of Human Genetics and Materials Research Society, all of which cited the lack of a convention-center hotel as a reason to go elsewhere.

Indeed, convention hotels are becoming as commonplace among Salt Lake City's competitors as drop-down DVD screens in minivans. Phoenix has one. Seattle has one. Denver has one. Even Reno, Nev., has one.

Only two of Salt Lake City's direct competitors -- Portland, Ore., and Albuquerque, N.M. -- haven't built headquarters hotels yet. And their convention centers are half the size of the Salt Palace.

So should Utah book its own reservation for convention hotel?

It's a high-dollar decision with plenty of risk for taxpayers, who could find themselves offering land, tax abatements or even financing for a 1,000-room downtown hotel. It's a gamble that has paid off in more than a dozen U.S. cities, including Denver; Sacramento; Austin, Texas; and Houston -- but not in St. Louis.


Hilton Austin (Courtesy of Hilton)

St. Louis' blunder » The Renaissance St. Louis Grand & Suites Hotel sank into foreclosure in early February after hoteliers failed to make the interest payment on a $98 million debt. The action reflected a six-year financial slide that turned this potential boon for Missouri's convention industry into a relative bust.

Although the hotel -- made possible with a combination of private dollars, tax-exempt bonds and $80 million in taxpayer cash -- has turned a small operating profit since opening in 2003, it has strained under heavy debt payments and lower-than-expected foot traffic. As a result, the Renaissance has exhausted the reserves once meant to protect bondholders and defaulted on its debt, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch .

"It has been a fiasco," remarked hotel consultant Gary Andreas, principal for H&H Financial in nearby Chesterfield.

What went wrong?

According to hospitality experts, hotel backers failed to ask a critical follow-up question of meeting planners who had chosen to take their business elsewhere. Although planners cited inadequate room space as a reason for striking St. Louis off their list, officials didn't ask whether a large-scale convention hotel would have changed their minds.

Consequently, the city opened a $265 million hotel, only to discover that the city's reputation for crime, its lack of retail and restaurants near the America's Center convention hall and its absence of tourist-grabbing attractions outside of the Gateway Arch and Cardinals baseball still kept conventions at bay.

Another ding for the Midwest metro was the price of its nearly 1,100-room headquarters hotel. The Renaissance emerged out of a historic renovation that cost developers about $266,000 per room. The resulting room rate, hospitality experts say, made surrounding hotels more attractive.

And, finally, hotel designers included just 52,000 square feet for on-site meetings -- too little, consultants say, for many large-scale conventions that desire such accommodations.

Houston's bounty » But where St. Louis failed, Houston succeeded. The Texas city built a $316 million, 1,200-room Hilton Americas hotel that has proved so profitable that Greg Ortale, president and CEO of the Greater Houston Convention and Visitors Bureau, refused to talk about it.

"I don't want to encourage anyone to build them," he said. "Why would I want to encourage more competition? Tell them [in Salt Lake City] it is a terrible idea. They shouldn't do it. They should run away from it."

Houston is entertaining plans of erecting a second headquarters hotel. Richard Campo, chairman of the nonprofit Houston Convention Center Hotel Corp., said Hilton Americas has led to a noticeable rise in convention traffic that has buoyed business at surrounding hotels. And hospitality experts suggest that the city's downtown district has only 4,000 of the 7,000 hotel rooms its convention center could support.

Randy McCaslin, a Houston-based hotel consultant for PKF Consulting, said Hilton Americas clearly made sense, and paid off.

"You really can't compete as a convention market without a convention-center hotel," he said. So, when Houston built its venue, "we became a player in the market."

Unlike the St. Louis venture, the Hilton Americas hotel was erected entirely with public financing -- an arrangement hospitality experts described as necessary after the city tried unsuccessfully for years to lure a private development on its own. The city issued bonds for the construction costs and guaranteed the debt with hotel taxes.

The result was a massive hotel linked via a sky bridge to the nearby George R. Brown Convention Center. Built in coordination with a $165 million convention center expansion, the hotel includes 91,500 square feet of meeting space and is a block from the Toyota Center (home of basketball's Rockets), two blocks from Minute Maid Park (home of baseball's Astros) and not far from the city's theater district.


Hilton San Diego Bayfront. (Courtesy of Hilton)

Selling the idea » Would a similar success story unfold in Salt Lake City? Or would a headquarters hotel fall flat like in St. Louis? That analysis has only begun.

Although a headquarters hotel would expose taxpayers to sizable financial liability, it could make the Salt Lake Valley more appealing for large-scale conventions that bring thousands of visitors -- and millions of dollars -- to the state's capital, hospitality experts say. Not only would the foot traffic bolster restaurants and retail outlets, but it also would lead to more tax dollars for government services.

Conversely, Beck fears that without a convention hotel, "we will get surpassed by the current market."

"Do we say, 'This risk factor does not make sense for our community?' " Salt Lake County Councilman Joe Hatch asked. "Or do we say, 'Wow, this risk factor makes a lot of sense for our community?' We won't know until we look at the numbers."

A taxpayer-backed hotel would be a hard sell for County Councilman David Wilde. The hospitality industry, he says, is no place for government.

"These things ought to be left to the private sector," Wilde said. "I would much prefer to see a hotel built by a private hotel company. But to absolutely, 100 percent, say no without all the information is a little premature. Somebody has got to show me that there is no way to get a private developer and hotel company to do this."

Outside of philosophical arguments about government's role in private-sector development, the track record for U.S. cities that have pursued headquarters hotels has produced far more happy endings than not, according to Robert Swerdling, managing director of the Denver-based Swerdling & Associates, which is a consultant for cities considering convention-center hotels. He doubts Salt Lake City -- with its low crime rate, its accessibility to an international airport and its tourism appeal -- would fall into the St. Louis trap.

"I am of the opinion that getting a hotel there is a good idea for the market," he said. "But that is not a decision for me to make."



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  #858  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2009, 1:21 PM
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University of Utah research keeps spinning out the spin-offs
Technology » 23 new firms join dozens of others created in past three years.

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_12967839

...That puts the Salt Lake City-based university second in the nation, behind M.I.T., for the number of spin-offs per year, Brittain said. In the past four years, Utah has recorded an average of 21 annually; M.I.T.'s four-year average is 23.


Andy Gotshalk, CEO of Blackrock Microsystems, shows off the micro electrode array, which when implanted into the brain, can collect signals for a number of applications. (Francisco Kjolseth / The Salt Lake Tribune)

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  #859  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2009, 3:14 PM
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Thanks Delts for posting these great stories. Your efforts are as great as T-Mac's photos. When I read the article about the convention hotel and the experiences of St. Louis, I couldn't help but think about how blessed we are to be living in this state and region. The Midwest is a mess and the best example of that is St. Louis. Utah is great, but we have a lot of solid competition from surrounding cities.

I hope the numbers come out for building a hotel. I would like the city and county officials to seek a private developer before they undertake it, but ultimately if the numbers are good then I would love a 1,000+ facility. It does seem that our direct competitors have more than a 1,000 rooms, so maybe that is too conservative.

Wow, the U is kicking butt on the entrepreneur front! This is a good indication of what kind of people this state is blessed with. My concern is that these companies start here, but when they get investment dollars they move somewhere else like California or Texas. We need to be working as hard as we can to keep them growing here and employing people.
     
     
  #860  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2009, 3:47 PM
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I'm not sure WeST of the exact stat's on companies relocating. I think that there is quite a growing list of companies locally, which have formed and are expanding amazingly well as a result of the U.'s leadership. Perhaps Steven07 can give us some more details on that. I have noticed that there continues to be an inordinate amount of money flooding into the build-up of amazing structures and departments at the U of U. Just the University campus alone accounts for more dollar expenditure in build-up of infrastructure alone than the entire CBDs of many mid sized cities, such as Boise or Albuquerque.

Reading that article on the new hotel, and those cities which are most directly involved in competition with the Salt Lake City market, convinces me even more that the hotel is soon imminent. I think that once Salt Lake completes the bulk of it's current build-up we will leap several steps ahead of many of those cities cited. Most of those cities don't even have close to the amount of spectacular scenery within easy proximity.
     
     
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