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  #1241  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 4:32 AM
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Union contractors... as opposed to the great, government subsidized CW Matthews?
I'm hardly a fan of CW Matthews, but I can guarantee you they'll never get close to the Beltline project unless considerable state money is somehow involved, AND their old friend Roy Barnes is somehow again elected governor. If it's primarily city and federal money involved, CW Matthews will not get the contract. It will be done by a union contractor - but the job will take twice as long and cost twice as much.
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  #1242  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 11:43 AM
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I've spent a lot of my weekends lately on the High Line and it is, indeed, a marvel but only a park. No transit, no bikes, and so far only about 10 blocks long. Eventually it will stretch up to 34th Street. BUT, one thing Atlanta can use the High Line as an example of is how it has spurred additional development along it's spine. Even in this economy, new condo towers, a swanky new Standard Hotel, and dozens of restaurants and bars are sprouting up along it's route, all advertising their location along the park. Surely the Beltline will have a similar, albeit probably smaller, effect.
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  #1243  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
I'm hardly a fan of CW Matthews, but I can guarantee you they'll never get close to the Beltline project unless considerable state money is somehow involved, AND their old friend Roy Barnes is somehow again elected governor. If it's primarily city and federal money involved, CW Matthews will not get the contract. It will be done by a union contractor - but the job will take twice as long and cost twice as much.
I'm not sure I follow you here. One of the great things about Atlanta from a developer's point of view is that it is NOT a union town. Work is done primarily by subs who don't have to worry about paying union wages or dealing with the litany of rules (and costs) that come from having the union involved. So what makes you think that the city will choose union work for the BeltLine? Are they not obligated to go to the low-cost bid? If one contractor is anticipating unionized labor and another is not, the latter will almost certainly come in with a lower bid.
     
     
  #1244  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by gttx View Post
I'm not sure I follow you here. One of the great things about Atlanta from a developer's point of view is that it is NOT a union town. Work is done primarily by subs who don't have to worry about paying union wages or dealing with the litany of rules (and costs) that come from having the union involved. So what makes you think that the city will choose union work for the BeltLine? Are they not obligated to go to the low-cost bid? If one contractor is anticipating unionized labor and another is not, the latter will almost certainly come in with a lower bid.
i'll provide what i believe to be a literal translation of fiorenza's comments for you.

i also believe these translations can be broadly applied to almost every post on any subject comming from fiorenza.

atlanta is predominately non-white = bad, bad, bad.
city government is predominately non-white = bad, bad, bad.

so, therefore, by proxy:

the beltline is in atlanta = bad, bad, bad.
the beltline is for atanta = bad, bad, bad.
the beltline will serve atlantan's = bad, bad, bad.

fin.
     
     
  #1245  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by atl2phx View Post
i'll provide what i believe to be a literal translation of fiorenza's comments for you.

i also believe these translations can be broadly applied to almost every post on any subject comming from fiorenza.

atlanta is predominately non-white = bad, bad, bad.
city government is predominately non-white = bad, bad, bad.

so, therefore, by proxy:

the beltline is in atlanta = bad, bad, bad.
the beltline is for atanta = bad, bad, bad.
the beltline will serve atlantan's = bad, bad, bad.

fin.
Oh, snap!

Even though you made me spray my coffee, thanks for making my entire weekend with this!
     
     
  #1246  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 4:27 PM
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It's true that I'm very critical of the leadership of Atlanta. It doesn't follow that I'm anti-black, anti-Atlanta or anti-Beltline.
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  #1247  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
It's true that I'm very critical of the leadership of Atlanta. It doesn't follow that I'm anti-black, anti-Atlanta or anti-Beltline.
man up, stop the madness and taze yourself.

ANYONE who has been subject to your posts for any period of time, knows your position on race quite well.

the least you could do is face the man in the mirror and recognize it yourself, the alternative is quite sad. in fact, it's just plain sad. sad, sad, sad.
     
     
  #1248  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 5:13 PM
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Well, I'm not. My worldview may be different than yours, but it doesn't mean I'm anti-black or anti-gay. We just disagree on policy.
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  #1249  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by atl2phx View Post
check this out......here's a great video illustrating atlanta's beltline concept focusing on and including a flythrough of the NORTHEAST CORRIDOR:
Unfortunately, even though this video refers to Old 4th Ward Park as the first new Beltline park to have 'broken ground', not a shovefull of actual dirt has yet to be moved.

When was the 'groundbreaking'? Last October? So we are about 10 months since the 'groundbreaking', with no sign of any actual progress.

This is the sort of thing that has people somewhat jaded about the entire project.
     
     
  #1250  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2009, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SfromVaHi View Post
Unfortunately, even though this video refers to Old 4th Ward Park as the first new Beltline park to have 'broken ground', not a shovefull of actual dirt has yet to be moved.

When was the 'groundbreaking'? Last October? So we are about 10 months since the 'groundbreaking', with no sign of any actual progress.

This is the sort of thing that has people somewhat jaded about the entire project.
my only guess would be that since O4WP is a fairly complex undertaking, it's probably taking longer to get started.

this is a park that was borne out of the need to create a water retention pond/system by the city's department of watershed management, it only emerged as a planned park with the comming of the beltline and in-depth community input.

the first component of the park will be the pond/lake that is actually the retention pond.

i'm not 100% certain, but i believe there is significant pre work required in moving or reconfiguring the natural springs in the area to achieve the goal of handling the large volume of water that accumulates in the area during heavy rainstorms.
     
     
  #1251  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2009, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by atl2phx View Post
my only guess would be that since O4WP is a fairly complex undertaking, it's probably taking longer to get started.

this is a park that was borne out of the need to create a water retention pond/system by the city's department of watershed management, it only emerged as a planned park with the comming of the beltline and in-depth community input.

the first component of the park will be the pond/lake that is actually the retention pond.

i'm not 100% certain, but i believe there is significant pre work required in moving or reconfiguring the natural springs in the area to achieve the goal of handling the large volume of water that accumulates in the area during heavy rainstorms.


Thats right. Wasn't that whole area a lake at one time? I think where home depot currently is was part of that. I'm not sure when it was drained but there is substantial water via natural springs in the area. I wish it could be made into a small lake again
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  #1252  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2009, 9:38 PM
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There was a lake there but it was way before my time. All I remember is the baseball park.
     
     
  #1253  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2009, 9:49 PM
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Has anyone else noticed the huge holiday inn banner covering the Medical Arts building at 384 Peachtree Street? They demolished the structure next to it, does anyone know if they're turning it into a holiday inn? The prospect of them doing something with that building really excites me, right now its an eye sore, but if done up it could really look decent.
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  #1254  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2009, 10:39 PM
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From a reliable source: The banner is an advert for the Holiday Inn brand,they are just using the facade as bill board so to speak.
     
     
  #1255  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2009, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SfromVaHi View Post
Unfortunately, even though this video refers to Old 4th Ward Park as the first new Beltline park to have 'broken ground', not a shovefull of actual dirt has yet to be moved.

When was the 'groundbreaking'? Last October? So we are about 10 months since the 'groundbreaking', with no sign of any actual progress.

This is the sort of thing that has people somewhat jaded about the entire project.
Despite the media coverage indicating otherwise, that groundbreaking was actually for the storm water retention pond that will be a part of the park. I'm not sure where that stands but it will be done by the watershed management department.

The park itself is scheduled to break ground this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scpatl4now View Post
Thats right. Wasn't that whole area a lake at one time? I think where home depot currently is was part of that. I'm not sure when it was drained but there is substantial water via natural springs in the area. I wish it could be made into a small lake again
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=149779&page=19

Last edited by smArTaLlone; Jul 27, 2009 at 11:10 PM.
     
     
  #1256  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 12:56 AM
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Aw, shucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by micropundit View Post
From a reliable source: The banner is an advert for the Holiday Inn brand,they are just using the facade as bill board so to speak.
That is unfortunate.

I live in the area and noticed the banners as well. I was hoping the building was going to be renovated, but at the very least at least they're covering up an eyesore. With the current and future build up of Ivan Allen that location seems like it would be pretty attractive. I just wonder if the building can actually be renovated. It looks like it is in pretty bad shape and might have to be torn down and rebuilt.
     
     
  #1257  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 1:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tdawg View Post
...Surely the Beltline will have a similar, albeit probably smaller, effect.
a smaller affect? wouldnt you think it would be a much larger affect.. along the line of 100x the affect the high line has on new york?
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  #1258  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 6:02 PM
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my bad. true, if built out, it would be a much bigger asset to atlanta than the high line is to nyc.
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  #1259  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2009, 4:11 PM
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This story is on Yahoo News today...

Atlanta close to tearing down last housing project
Mon Jul 27
ATLANTA – The nation's bulldozer attack on crime and poverty will soon make Atlanta — home of the first public housing development — the first major city to eliminate all of its large housing projects.
Cities from Boston to Los Angeles are following its lead. For more than 15 years, housing officials across the country have been razing the projects where some 1.2 million families live and replacing them with a mix of higher-rent and subsidized apartments and homes.
Alexandria, La., has taken down at least 247 units. Buffalo, N.Y., has demolished about 1,000 aging homes. Atlanta expects to finish tearing down the last of its sprawling projects next June.
Advocates for the poor worry that not enough subsidized homes remain, and thousands of families are being dumped on the street. Less than half of the 92,000 units demolished by cities have been replaced with traditional public housing.
Most of the displaced residents have received vouchers to put them in privately owned housing. The Department of Housing and Urban Development acknowledges, however, that it doesn't know what happened to thousands of families.
Some longtime residents feel like afterthoughts in an ambitious overhaul that is supposed to help them.

"I don't think it's fair," said Jeff Walker, who was forced out May 30 from Atlanta's Bankhead Courts project.
Even though drug violence there was once so brazen that mail carriers had police escorts, he said: "We didn't ask to be moved."
The housing projects in Atlanta date back to 1936, when the nation's first public housing community, Techwood Homes, was built here. President Franklin D. Roosevelt heralded it as "a tribute to useful work under government supervision" and the first step in building a safety net for the working poor during the Depression.

Decades of cultural and policy shifts transformed that safety net into a permanent home for generations of families surrounded by disproportionately high crime.
When a 1992 report deemed roughly 86,000 public housing units "severely distressed," federal officials knew it was time for sweeping action, according to former HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros.
"There was no kind of forward-looking plan, and no commitment to dramatic change," said Cisneros, who in the early '90s helped craft what is known as the Hope VI program.
Hope VI would eventually provide $6.2 billion in federal grants for demolition, revitalization and planning. It also reversed long-standing HUD policy by letting housing authorities replace demolished units with Section 8 vouchers — coupons low-income families can use to cover rent with private landlords off site.
That meant the nation's more than 3,300 housing authorities could tear down blighted public housing and rebuild smaller, more easily managed neighborhoods while the vouchers would prevent anyone from being left homeless.

At least in theory.

In 1996, toward the end of Atlanta's makeover as host of the Olympics, the city pioneered the creation of mixed-income developments — former public housing communities demolished and rebuilt to include market-rate houses and apartments alongside a whittled-down number of public housing units. Mixing higher-income families with lower-income ones spurs the latter into self-improvement, housing officials say, while deconcentrating poverty.
"Something dramatic needed to occur," said Atlanta Housing Authority CEO Renee Glover, who took over in the '90s, when Atlanta had a higher percentage of its population living in public housing projects than any other U.S. city.
She's used some $220 million in Hope VI and other development funds to help transform 14 developments in one of the nation's most ambitious public housing revampings.
Successes include the Villages of East Lake, a community of tidy duplexes and flower-lined porches built on the ruins of a public housing complex so violent that locals called it "Little Vietnam."
But such transformations are not to be enjoyed by everyone. The number of units in the complex was cut in half, and a 2007 Georgia Institute of Technology study found that just one-third of the original residents managed to resettle into the new mixed-income community.

Nationwide, HUD estimates Hope VI will eventually demolish 95,998 public housing units. A little more than half of those will be replaced with traditional public housing. HUD is also building more than 50,000 other units in mixed-income communities, which will range from semi-subsidized apartments with higher income requirements to market-rate houses.
So far, 17,911 displaced families have returned to revitalized communities. HUD expects a total of 22,510 families to return, a fraction of those displaced.
HUD records show the whereabouts of 12,595 families, many of whom faced eviction for lease violations, are unclear.
"We don't know whether or not those people who have been displaced are getting Section 8 vouchers to go someplace else, and whether someplace else is available," said Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif. Originally a supporter of public housing reform, she's come to question the program that's demolished thousands of units in Los Angeles and San Diego.
Waters has requested a demolition moratorium and 20,000 additional Section 8 vouchers to support displaced families, an option that comes with its own problems. Critics have long attacked Section 8 as a poorly run program that supports landlords for providing barely inhabitable housing.

Atlanta's leaders have set up safeguards to ease the transition, including incentives to encourage more private renters to accept Section 8 vouchers and counseling for families facing sudden change.
Glover believes pushing chronic public housing residents out is the only answer to breaking the cycle of poverty, and she's led many of the nation's housing authority leaders to the same conclusion.

Huntsville, Ala., Housing Authority CEO Michael Lundy has experienced it personally. As a child, Lundy lived in public housing until his family saved enough money to move out. Soon, his neighbors were teachers, musicians and entrepreneurs.
Lundy said he began considering college after he "all of a sudden realized that you know what, I can do all of those things."
His agency is looking to replace some of its 1,700 public housing units with mixed-income developments, and promoting self-sufficiency.
"Public housing should just be a temporary place to stay," Lundy said. "Not a way of life."
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  #1260  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2009, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by boomtown View Post
This story is on Yahoo News today...

Atlanta close to tearing down last housing project
Mon Jul 27
ATLANTA – The nation's bulldozer attack on crime and poverty will soon make Atlanta — home of the first public housing development — the first major city to eliminate all of its large housing projects.
Cities from Boston to Los Angeles are following its lead. For more than 15 years, housing officials across the country have been razing the projects where some 1.2 million families live and replacing them with a mix of higher-rent and subsidized apartments and homes.
Alexandria, La., has taken down at least 247 units. Buffalo, N.Y., has demolished about 1,000 aging homes. Atlanta expects to finish tearing down the last of its sprawling projects next June.
Advocates for the poor worry that not enough subsidized homes remain, and thousands of families are being dumped on the street. Less than half of the 92,000 units demolished by cities have been replaced with traditional public housing.
Most of the displaced residents have received vouchers to put them in privately owned housing. The Department of Housing and Urban Development acknowledges, however, that it doesn't know what happened to thousands of families.
Some longtime residents feel like afterthoughts in an ambitious overhaul that is supposed to help them.

"I don't think it's fair," said Jeff Walker, who was forced out May 30 from Atlanta's Bankhead Courts project.
Even though drug violence there was once so brazen that mail carriers had police escorts, he said: "We didn't ask to be moved."
The housing projects in Atlanta date back to 1936, when the nation's first public housing community, Techwood Homes, was built here. President Franklin D. Roosevelt heralded it as "a tribute to useful work under government supervision" and the first step in building a safety net for the working poor during the Depression.

Decades of cultural and policy shifts transformed that safety net into a permanent home for generations of families surrounded by disproportionately high crime.
When a 1992 report deemed roughly 86,000 public housing units "severely distressed," federal officials knew it was time for sweeping action, according to former HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros.
"There was no kind of forward-looking plan, and no commitment to dramatic change," said Cisneros, who in the early '90s helped craft what is known as the Hope VI program.
Hope VI would eventually provide $6.2 billion in federal grants for demolition, revitalization and planning. It also reversed long-standing HUD policy by letting housing authorities replace demolished units with Section 8 vouchers — coupons low-income families can use to cover rent with private landlords off site.
That meant the nation's more than 3,300 housing authorities could tear down blighted public housing and rebuild smaller, more easily managed neighborhoods while the vouchers would prevent anyone from being left homeless.

At least in theory.

In 1996, toward the end of Atlanta's makeover as host of the Olympics, the city pioneered the creation of mixed-income developments — former public housing communities demolished and rebuilt to include market-rate houses and apartments alongside a whittled-down number of public housing units. Mixing higher-income families with lower-income ones spurs the latter into self-improvement, housing officials say, while deconcentrating poverty.
"Something dramatic needed to occur," said Atlanta Housing Authority CEO Renee Glover, who took over in the '90s, when Atlanta had a higher percentage of its population living in public housing projects than any other U.S. city.
She's used some $220 million in Hope VI and other development funds to help transform 14 developments in one of the nation's most ambitious public housing revampings.
Successes include the Villages of East Lake, a community of tidy duplexes and flower-lined porches built on the ruins of a public housing complex so violent that locals called it "Little Vietnam."
But such transformations are not to be enjoyed by everyone. The number of units in the complex was cut in half, and a 2007 Georgia Institute of Technology study found that just one-third of the original residents managed to resettle into the new mixed-income community.

Nationwide, HUD estimates Hope VI will eventually demolish 95,998 public housing units. A little more than half of those will be replaced with traditional public housing. HUD is also building more than 50,000 other units in mixed-income communities, which will range from semi-subsidized apartments with higher income requirements to market-rate houses.
So far, 17,911 displaced families have returned to revitalized communities. HUD expects a total of 22,510 families to return, a fraction of those displaced.
HUD records show the whereabouts of 12,595 families, many of whom faced eviction for lease violations, are unclear.
"We don't know whether or not those people who have been displaced are getting Section 8 vouchers to go someplace else, and whether someplace else is available," said Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif. Originally a supporter of public housing reform, she's come to question the program that's demolished thousands of units in Los Angeles and San Diego.
Waters has requested a demolition moratorium and 20,000 additional Section 8 vouchers to support displaced families, an option that comes with its own problems. Critics have long attacked Section 8 as a poorly run program that supports landlords for providing barely inhabitable housing.

Atlanta's leaders have set up safeguards to ease the transition, including incentives to encourage more private renters to accept Section 8 vouchers and counseling for families facing sudden change.
Glover believes pushing chronic public housing residents out is the only answer to breaking the cycle of poverty, and she's led many of the nation's housing authority leaders to the same conclusion.

Huntsville, Ala., Housing Authority CEO Michael Lundy has experienced it personally. As a child, Lundy lived in public housing until his family saved enough money to move out. Soon, his neighbors were teachers, musicians and entrepreneurs.
Lundy said he began considering college after he "all of a sudden realized that you know what, I can do all of those things."
His agency is looking to replace some of its 1,700 public housing units with mixed-income developments, and promoting self-sufficiency.
"Public housing should just be a temporary place to stay," Lundy said. "Not a way of life."
Know whats cheaper than building public housing?


A one-way bus ticket to New Orleans.
     
     
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