Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[Suzie]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Sorry, Suzie, I have a bad habit of using more authorative speech than I should. These are my current best guesses at the headways. From what I have gotten talking to the OC Transpo planners, it is still way too early for them to be making up shcedules. They would require a lot more information - like the actual route of the line - before they could decide on service levels.

...

I worry that having primarily two stations, DT-west and Rideau, take the downtown load will result in very long station dwell times; this is what is killing Toronto's system. You would think that a three minute headway would allow lots of leaway for long station dwell times, and it does, but what about the future; if we need to drop to two minute headways can we? What about 90-second headways?

Thanks Richard for the detailed explanation.

It would be nice for the City to provide ballpark estimates of the frequencies, but I’ll guess we’ll have to wait for that.

I’m concerned that some city officials seem to think that average wait times of 10 minutes are acceptable. I know I’ll sound like a broken record but one minute of wait time being equivalent to three minutes of in-vehicle time. So a 10-minute wait would feel like a 30-minute trip inside a train.

I can underway why you used the 95 timetables as a guide. For segments like Hurdman to Lincoln Fields, however, other routes like the 96 and the 97 substantially increase the amount of bus service available. Even on Sunday, the current frequencies on that segment are pretty good (based on personal experience, average headways during mid-day Sunday are less than 5 minutes).

I’m still hoping that we will get frequencies similar to the Expo Line or the Canada Line in Vancouver (see: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2760544&postcount=31 ). However, it’s looking like I’m being way too optimistic.

Unless N/S trains were truncated at Bayview and/or STO riders are forced to transfer at Lebreton, I’m not sure why one would short-turn trains from the East at Tunney’s Pasture. Even with more development around Tunney’s Pasture, Bayview and Lebreton, I don’t think the amount of traffic at those stations would fill a train and thus I fear the practice would waste some of the capacity of the tunnel.

[Admiral Nelson]

If the LRT is going to run along the Transitway, where will the buses go during construction? And, when completed, will the LRT completely eliminate bus routes there?

Sorry if these are dumb questions

[waterloowarrior]

the bayshore/moodie transitway boards are available on alex cullen's website
http://alexcullen.ca/

look under environmental assessments in bay ward, near the top

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson

If the LRT is going to run along the Transitway, where will the buses go during construction? And, when completed, will the LRT completely eliminate bus routes there?

Sorry if these are dumb questions

From what I understand, a lane will be added to the Queensway at least from Blair to the Vanier Parkway and that will be used for buses formerly using the eastern Transitway. There will also be a new bridge built across the Rideau River in what is known as the Alta Vista Parkway Corridor and this will connect into Nicholas Street. This will move buses from Hurdman into downtown. After LRT is opened, buses formerly using the Eastern Transitway will terminate at Blair station and riders will transfer to LRT and the extra Queensway lanes will revert to use by regular traffic. Buses from the South-east Transitway will continue to access downtown using the new bridge across the Rideau.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

the bayshore/moodie transitway boards are available on alex cullen's website
http://alexcullen.ca/

look under environmental assessments in bay ward, near the top

Here's the preliminary recommended route, for those of you who don't like following links

[waterloowarrior]

ranquil borough braces for two years of construction they won't benefit from

Crystal Beach/Lakeview residents brace for congestion, but won’t benefit from upgrades

BY MARIA COOK, THE OTTAWA CITIZENJULY 17, 2009 6:23 AMBE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT


OTTAWA — People living in the Crystal Beach/Lakeview area on the city’s west side can be forgiven for feeling a bit under siege.

Two of their main streets, Carling Avenue and Corkstown Road, will be a construction zone for two years so the City of Ottawa can build a $34-million watermain to Kanata and Stittsville.

“It’s going to jam up the traffic a lot,” says Ruth Tremblay, president of the Crystal Beach/Lakeview community association. “We don’t object to Kanata and Stittsville having water. We’re just worried about the disruption to our community.”

On top of that, the city is proposing a Transitway extension from Holly Acres Road to Moodie Drive north of the Queensway that is “too close” to the community, Tremblay says.

The route cuts through National Capital Commission lands that contain Stillwater Creek, wildlife, mature rare black maple trees and a bicycle and walking path that is part of the Trans Canada Trail.

“Our community is concerned about the additional noise,” Tremblay says. “We also believe that destroying a natural urban forest is the environmentally wrong choice.”

Crystal Beach/Lakeview is bordered by the Queensway to the south, the Ottawa River to the north, Moodie Drive to the west and Holly Acres to the east.

Bay Councillor Alex Cullen notes the benefit of both projects is for suburban growth areas in Kanata and Stittsville.

“The whole purpose is to improve water supply to that western growth area,” Cullen says. “The Transitway is being built for commuters coming from Kanata and Stittsville.

“This is the cost of urban growth in the west area. You have to upgrade the infrastructure.”

He hopes a paved bike lane along Corkstown Road can be built as part of the project.

The city will install a pipe from the existing water-main trunk at the Ottawa River Parkway-Carling Avenue intersection, to Moodie Drive just south of Timm Drive. It will also put a pipe along Timm Drive from Moodie Drive to Eagleson Road. The distance is more than 11 kilometres.

Work is to start either this fall or next spring. Carling Avenue will be reduced to two lanes and Corkstown Road to one lane for two years.

“Corkstown Road is where all our stuff is,” Tremblay says. Residents are concerned about access to a seniors’ residence, public outdoor pool, tennis courts and Lakeview Elementary School.

At a public meeting on Wednesday, they posed questions about the routing of emergency vehicles and the No. 166 bus route. “We need a really good traffic plan,” Tremblay says. “We haven’t seen one yet.”

Shad Qadri, the councillor for Stittsville-Kanata West, says the watermain is needed for current residents as well as for new development.

Stittsville, with a population of about 25,000, has 6,500 new houses under construction and is growing at the rate of about 1,500 people a year. The Fernbank lands in Kanata West are expected to have 8,500 to 10,000 new houses.

“Right now we only have one source of water,” Qadri says. “If there was a rupture, we would be without water. Even if we didn’t have new development we need a second line coming into the area. From a City of Ottawa perspective, it’s good to have solid infrastructure in place.”

As for the proposed Transitway extension, the Crystal Beach/Lakeview community association has written to Ottawa West-Nepean MP John Baird, Ottawa West-Nepean MPP Jim Watson and the National Capital Commission seeking support.

“We would prefer the city put the Transitway extension either down the centre of the Queensway or on the south side of the Queensway,” Tremblay says.

The forest absorbs pollution and noise from the Queensway, is “home to a wide variety of wildlife, birds, fish, rare mature trees” and provides recreation space, the community association wrote. “Once lost it cannot be replaced.”

City council’s transportation committee is to vote on it in November.

Cullen says the chosen route is the cheapest. The city will replace the trees, relocate the creek, retain the bike path and put up noise barriers.

“There’s no doubt the community would prefer this to be someplace else, but, from the city’s point of view, the Transitway has to be expanded,” Cullen says.

“It makes more sense for the taxpayer to have it running on the north side as close as possible to the Queensway.”

Cullen says the extension is identified in the city’s transportation plan as a top priority. “It’s all about trying to avoid traffic congestion and trying to make public transit more efficient.”

Designing Ottawa:

Read Maria Cook’s blog at ottawacitizen.co

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[Cre47]

No benefits? Euh yeah right. With the sound barrier planned, they will no longer hear or hear a lot less the hundreds of trucks and noisy old vehicles rocketing down the 417. And also how many buses run after 11 PM on the 417? Only one bus every 15-30 minutes until 2 AM. And looking at the proposed corridor (B) it is barely closer to them then it is right now with the designated lane. And the tree line and bike path will be barely affected. Just NIMBYSM nonsense.

[lrt's friend]

Doesn't Phase 1 of the LRT plan actually include plans to effectively construct a parallel replacement Eastern Transitway, but because it is exactly parallel to the existing Transitway, it will not deliver any significant new service.

Think about it. We will be building new lanes on the Queensway to accomodate buses while the Eastern Transitway is converted. In theory this will turned over to regular traffic in the end, but won't it continue to service bus routes such as the 101, 102, and 118 (probably others in the future) even in the longer-term, at least until the Hurdman-Innes Transitway is built, likely many years from now? Then we are building another Transitway bridge across the Rideau parallel to the existing Transitway bridge to continue to provide bus access into downtown from south and east of the Rideau River.

How many millions will this all cost? Yet, this money is being spent only to maintain existing service.

If we are spending billions on this Phase alone, why aren't we getting some new service out of it that will attract new riders to transit?

[Richard Eade]

I assume that you are referring to the Hospital Link and Cumberland Transitway Connection BRT which has just been studied. It turned out that the studied support a segregated Transitway from Navan Road to Blair, but found that the level of ridership was marginal from Blair west to the Hospital Campus. In fact, there seems to be more need to have the buses travel up to the Train Yards retail area. Also, the short length of the Altavista Parkway which has already been approved, was approved with the condition that transit lanes were to be included. With these lanes providing bus transportation to the Hospital, the whole idea of running an expensive Bus Transitway through the Browning Corridor became unnecessary.

Thus, the recommended route is as follows:



If the recommended route is accepted by Council, the buses would run along Bus Priority Lanes along Innes, Industrial, and Terminal. The Hospital Campus would be served by transit lanes on the Altavista Parkway to Smyth.

You are quite right to be wondering about the Nicholas Connector Bridge (as they like to call the AVTC Bridge) being used for buses after the train is running. The alternative is to have buses from the S-E Transitway stop at Hurdman where passengers are forced to transfer to the train.

If the $40M for the bridge was used to extend the tunnel from the 417 under Lees, under the river, to Hurdman, then the existing Transitway Bridge would not be affected so it could be used during construction and after. This would also give the opportunity of using a below-grade rail station instead of a raised one. A minor difference in cost, if any, but it would remove the impediment of a fenced rail line set up on an embankment which would divide the Hurdman area.

[lrt's friend]

I was actually talking about the temporary measures along the Queensway to move buses between Blair and Hurdman while LRT construction was taking place. Or will the Innes-Hurdman BRT move forward much quicker than anybody expects?

I am really surprised about the findings about serving the Train Yards big box complex generating more ridership than the Hospitals and surrounding facilities and offices and residential areas. Sounds like we are just bowing to Browning Avenue pressure.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I assume that you are referring to the Hospital Link and Cumberland Transitway Connection BRT which has just been studied. It turned out that the studied support a segregated Transitway from Navan Road to Blair, but found that the level of ridership was marginal from Blair west to the Hospital Campus. In fact, there seems to be more need to have the buses travel up to the Train Yards retail area. Also, the short length of the Altavista Parkway which has already been approved, was approved with the condition that transit lanes were to be included. With these lanes providing bus transportation to the Hospital, the whole idea of running an expensive Bus Transitway through the Browning Corridor became unnecessary.

Thus, the recommended route is as follows:



If the recommended route is accepted by Council, the buses would run along Bus Priority Lanes along Innes, Industrial, and Terminal. The Hospital Campus would be served by transit lanes on the Altavista Parkway to Smyth.

You are quite right to be wondering about the Nicholas Connector Bridge (as they like to call the AVTC Bridge) being used for buses after the train is running. The alternative is to have buses from the S-E Transitway stop at Hurdman where passengers are forced to transfer to the train.

If the $40M for the bridge was used to extend the tunnel from the 417 under Lees, under the river, to Hurdman, then the existing Transitway Bridge would not be affected so it could be used during construction and after. This would also give the opportunity of using a below-grade rail station instead of a raised one. A minor difference in cost, if any, but it would remove the impediment of a fenced rail line set up on an embankment which would divide the Hurdman area.

Due to the low ridership potential, I'd just turn the route up to Blair Station and join into the East Transitway there. If both routes are LRT (to Place d'Orleans/Trim and to Millennium), they could provide alternating headways and double the number of trips from Blair westward.

As for the hospitals? There are several options:

1) Status quo (just remove the stops on Route 106 on Smyth Road)

2) Keep it on a spur route - whether a short LRT or BRT connection on a dedicated Transitway

3) Make it the first stop on a new Southeast Transit Corridor, which would replace the Alta Vista Parkway

4) Make it the first stop on a new Southeast Transit Corridor, concurrent with the Alta Vista Parkway (i.e. in the median, but would require a freeway design - think Crowchild Trail in Calgary).

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I assume that you are referring to the Hospital Link and Cumberland Transitway Connection BRT which has just been studied. It turned out that the studied support a segregated Transitway from Navan Road to Blair, but found that the level of ridership was marginal from Blair west to the Hospital Campus. In fact, there seems to be more need to have the buses travel up to the Train Yards retail area.

That's a really weird finding... perhaps Peter Hume got to them

Also, the short length of the Altavista Parkway which has already been approved, was approved with the condition that transit lanes were to be included. With these lanes providing bus transportation to the Hospital, the whole idea of running an expensive Bus Transitway through the Browning Corridor became unnecessary.

Thus, the recommended route is as follows:



If the recommended route is accepted by Council, the buses would run along Bus Priority Lanes along Innes, Industrial, and Terminal. The Hospital Campus would be served by transit lanes on the Altavista Parkway to Smyth.

All bus lanes... oh well. It could be worse I suppose.


Frankly, I think this corridor will ultimately just get added to the list of corridors that have been studied and EAed twice or more before anything actually happens. I figure in about 5-10 years everything will be looked at again, especially once we have some rail running.

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Due to the low ridership potential, I'd just turn the route up to Blair Station and join into the East Transitway there. If both routes are LRT (to Place d'Orleans/Trim and to Millennium), they could provide alternating headways and double the number of trips from Blair westward.

As for the hospitals? There are several options:

1) Status quo (just remove the stops on Route 106 on Smyth Road)

2) Keep it on a spur route - whether a short LRT or BRT connection on a dedicated Transitway

3) Make it the first stop on a new Southeast Transit Corridor, which would replace the Alta Vista Parkway

4) Make it the first stop on a new Southeast Transit Corridor, concurrent with the Alta Vista Parkway (i.e. in the median, but would require a freeway design - think Crowchild Trail in Calgary).

You sure seem to have a thing for freeways... Anyway, Calgary has committed itself to a median LRT along Crowchild in the NW and have not much choice but to continue doing so (why they're even in the Crowchild corridor is a story unto itself - but basically it involves the University of Calgary not wanting to lose parking revenue and sounds awfully like the short-sighted position of the Ottawa Hospital), but everywhere else they're moving away from such designs. The new West LRT line will have only as much median running as is unavoidable while up in the NE they have now moved the line out of the median of 36th St. in the latest extension to McKnight-Westwinds. Edmonton too has gone for one-sided LRT lines. Expressway median LRT lines are pretty bad from an urban design perspective since they effectively increase the width of the road that pedestrians have to cross, whereas putting them to one side doesn't really since LRT lines can be crossed most of the time without waiting. They also allow for nicer stations. In an ideal world, I'd even put a cycleway on the side of the LRT opposite the road with its own signals.

[Richard Eade]

I don't think Staff have looked into the possibility of having the train serve the Train Yards retail area, but it could be done.



The preferred location for the LRT Maintenance Facility is marked with fuchsia. This will probably be the chosen location since the competition is between here (St. Laurent), Bayview, and Hurdman North; and I don't think the other two will be acceptable. Assuming this location, a rail spur is required to get the trains to the West-East (W-E) Track. It is most likely that the spur will be run beside the VIA track and up the Hydro Corridor beside Belfast, as shown in red above. This extra length of rail offers no benefit to the riders.

Moving the W-E Track south of 'Alphabet Village' (Eastview Gardens) would put the track right beside the LRT Maintenance Facility and give the Train Yards retail area train access. Remember that the Train Yards has enough zoning for potential ridership of about 10,000 office workers, plus about 3,500 retail clerks, plus all of the shoppers. (OK, the train will probably not carry ALL of the people who go to the Train Yards area but potentially there could be a large number of passengers destined for here.)

There is also the possibility of adding an extra station to service the Tremblay Land. If the Feds are going to create another Tunneys Pasture there, the ridership potential could be huge.

The VIA Station would be services by a tunnel under the tracks.

OK, and here is the kicker - If the train is moved south to service the Train Yards retail area, then the bus priority along Innes, Industrial, and Terminal wouldn't be needed at all, thus saving an estimated $150M and not putting more buses onto already busy roads.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

OK, and here is the kicker - If the train is moved south to service the Train Yards retail area, then the bus priority along Innes, Industrial, and Terminal wouldn't be needed at all, thus saving an estimated $150M and not putting more buses onto already busy roads.

I'm d_jeffrey and I approve this message.

[lrt's friend]

If you look at that map, you will notice how close the planned Train Yards busway is to the Via Rail station and Via LRT station for that matter. All you need is a pedestrian access between Train Yards and the Via Rail station, and you have everything solved. No need to build a busway, no need to relocate LRT south of the train station. Why not do this the cheapest way possible? The whole point of building a busway was to connect the hospital complex with the east end. If we are not doing that any more, it is a waste of money. Everything east of Train Yards almost to Blair Road is low density industrial. And that density will just get lower if the LRT maintenance facility is placed on Belfast Road as Richard suggests and many businesses will disappear from that location.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I don't think Staff have looked into the possibility of having the train serve the Train Yards retail area, but it could be done.



The preferred location for the LRT Maintenance Facility is marked with fuchsia. This will probably be the chosen location since the competition is between here (St. Laurent), Bayview, and Hurdman North; and I don't think the other two will be acceptable. Assuming this location, a rail spur is required to get the trains to the West-East (W-E) Track. It is most likely that the spur will be run beside the VIA track and up the Hydro Corridor beside Belfast, as shown in red above. This extra length of rail offers no benefit to the riders.

Moving the W-E Track south of 'Alphabet Village' (Eastview Gardens) would put the track right beside the LRT Maintenance Facility and give the Train Yards retail area train access. Remember that the Train Yards has enough zoning for potential ridership of about 10,000 office workers, plus about 3,500 retail clerks, plus all of the shoppers. (OK, the train will probably not carry ALL of the people who go to the Train Yards area but potentially there could be a large number of passengers destined for here.)

There is also the possibility of adding an extra station to service the Tremblay Land. If the Feds are going to create another Tunneys Pasture there, the ridership potential could be huge.

The VIA Station would be services by a tunnel under the tracks.

OK, and here is the kicker - If the train is moved south to service the Train Yards retail area, then the bus priority along Innes, Industrial, and Terminal wouldn't be needed at all, thus saving an estimated $150M and not putting more buses onto already busy roads.

Brilliant.

Can you run for Mayor or Transit Tsar or something? Please?

[Kitchissippi]

OK, and here is the kicker - If the train is moved south to service the Train Yards retail area, then the bus priority along Innes, Industrial, and Terminal wouldn't be needed at all, thus saving an estimated $150M and not putting more buses onto already busy roads.

Scrapping the existing tunnel under the Queensway and building another one with a 90 degree bend would likely cost way more than what can be saved.

[m0nkyman]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Scrapping the existing tunnel under the Queensway and building another one with a 90 degree bend would likely cost way more than what can be saved.

quoted for truth.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Brilliant.

Can you run for Mayor or Transit Tsar or something? Please?

All hail Tsar Richard Eade!! Long live the Tsar!!

[canadave]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Scrapping the existing tunnel under the Queensway and building another one with a 90 degree bend would likely cost way more than what can be saved.

Indeed.

Plus, have you ever taken the 121? That bus is always damned near empty.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the prefered site for the yard the PWGSC site to the north of the current OC Transpo facility?