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  #1501  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2009, 4:39 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Abolish the GST or make it a hidden tax. (Sorry to change the subject... personal beef of mine)
     
     
  #1502  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2009, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
Abolish the GST or make it a hidden tax. (Sorry to change the subject... personal beef of mine)
I'm in favour of a harmonized tax for sure. Although I don't think it should be hidden.
     
     
  #1503  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2009, 2:47 AM
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Tri-Cities' Evergreen transit line will get built: minister
Last Updated: Friday, July 17, 2009 | 10:04 AM PT
CBC News

The B.C. government says the Evergreen Line will get built, and it is telling TransLink to find its share of the money for the new rapid transit line for the Tri-Cities area northeast of Vancouver.

"We're not even contemplating not moving forward with the Evergreen Line," B.C. Transportation Minister Shirley Bond told CBC News on Thursday.

Bond repeated the province's commitment to the $1.4-billion project after the regional transit authority announced Wednesday that it's facing a $450-million deficit and doesn't have the money to cover its $400-million share of the new SkyTrain line's cost.

But Bond did not elaborate on how she expects TransLink to raise the money. Instead, she said TransLink needs to figure out for itself how it will come up with its share.

"We believe that TransLink has some options that they need to look at. They need to look at their own internal expenses as well to make sure that they're managing efficiently," Bond said.

"TransLink has to go back and look at the plan that they're creating and try to find a way to include it in a more moderate option," Bond said.

TransLink does have several options to raise the cash, and in recent years it has floated proposals to raise more funds, such as parking taxes and vehicle levies, but those proposals have faced strong public opposition.

But Gordon Price, the director of Simon Fraser University's city program, blames the province for TransLink's funding shortfall.

"The province has almost put TransLink in an impossible position. It's given it very high requirements and expectations, particularly addressing provincial requirements — greenhouse gases comes to mind — but they won't give TransLink the tools it needs to do it," Price said.

Residents frustrated by delays
Some residents of the Tri-Cities area — which is made up of Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam and Port Moody, plus the two villages of Anmore and Belcarra — say they are frustrated by years of delays since the project was first put proposed.

"It's beyond my understanding how a community that is growing as fast as Coquitlam is cannot get what they've been promised for 15 years in the way of transit," resident Jeannine Silvistrone said.

Businessman Colby Lee, who opened his Three Dog Bakery in Coquitlam four months ago, said he feels it's all a political game.

"I think it's probably a political push to try and get more money, but ultimately it's going to be the people of the Tri-Cities that are going to be held hostage," he said.

Lee said he hopes TransLink does not adopt a parking tax, which "is ultimately also going to hurt the local businesses," to pay for the line.

Greenhouse gas cuts
Any cancellation of the transit line could jeopardize the province's ambitious plan to cut carbon emissions in B.C. by a third by 2020, but Bond reaffirmed that those targets will also be met.

"If we look at transit ridership across the province, we're looking at an increased ridership on BC Transit of 15 per cent in some communities, so we're fixed on making sure we do hit our targets," she said.

TransLink is expected to make a final decision on the Evergreen Line's future in October.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/07/17/bc-evergreen-line-tri-cities-bond.html
     
     
  #1504  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2009, 4:08 AM
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I would bet that this is going to turn into another Canada Line like circus with repeated rejections by Translink, followed by more voting, posturing over money, etc, etc, etc...Same old, same old...When all is said and done the line will be built of course...

Just split the shortfall over multiple sources - property taxes, car levies, parking taxes, hotel taxes, whatever and get things done. But before that make some cuts to the Translink's bloated workforce top to bottom.
     
     
  #1505  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2009, 5:22 AM
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I would bet that this is going to turn into another Canada Line like circus with repeated rejections by Translink, followed by more voting, posturing over money, etc, etc, etc...Same old, same old...When all is said and done the line will be built of course...

Just split the shortfall over multiple sources - property taxes, car levies, parking taxes, hotel taxes, whatever and get things done. But before that make some cuts to the Translink's bloated workforce top to bottom.
Your proposed solution is "make it up as you go along" when the Province should sit down with Translink and all local transit authorities (not just in the Lower Mainland) and set up a permanent funding source for public transit so that plans can be made--and followed-decades in advance.

It's time for everyone to truly get serious about this.
     
     
  #1506  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2009, 5:53 AM
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Bottom line, if we want an expanding, efficient and clean transit network we are going to have to pay for it. I love how the public wants all of the above without any sacrifice (actually paying for it). And the last thing i want Translink to do is cut jobs, if anything we need more personnel on the lines and buses, there should be someone in every station and a few people in every depot/hub (such as having real information centers). Also we need more graffiti removal and etching removal. I am willing to pay for these services anyway Translink sees fit. Also i feel the provincial government should be a little more flexible in this issue as well.
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  #1507  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2009, 6:06 AM
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Bottom line, if we want an expanding, efficient and clean transit network we are going to have to pay for it. I love how the public wants all of the above without any sacrifice (actually paying for it). And the last thing i want Translink to do is cut jobs, if anything we need more personnel on the lines and buses, there should be someone in every station and a few people in every depot/hub (such as having real information centers). Also we need more graffiti removal and etching removal. I am willing to pay for these services anyway Translink sees fit. Also i feel the provincial government should be a little more flexible in this issue as well.
More personnel doing next to nothing is not going to help anything except waste more money. The sky train attendants for example are not doing anything to help transit users. I have witnessed number of times tourists fiddling with the machines and transit maps while attendants are going out of their way not to see them and help. Since the transit police took over the ticket checking, the sky train attendants are absolutely useless.

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Originally Posted by mrjauk View Post
Your proposed solution is "make it up as you go along" when the Province should sit down with Translink and all local transit authorities (not just in the Lower Mainland) and set up a permanent funding source for public transit so that plans can be made--and followed-decades in advance.

It's time for everyone to truly get serious about this.
On the provincial side, they are not going to do anything to secure the stable funding for the Translink. For provincial politicians providing operational funds is a non 🞵🞵🞵🞵 issue that's not going to win them any votes (unlike ribbon cutting). So you can forget about that. Making funds come from multiple, different sources make sit fair for everybody. We cannot just pile more taxes on top of homeowners. Spread it around.
     
     
  #1508  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 5:23 PM
mrjauk mrjauk is offline
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Originally Posted by WBC View Post
On the provincial side, they are not going to do anything to secure the stable funding for the Translink. For provincial politicians providing operational funds is a non 🞵🞵🞵🞵 issue that's not going to win them any votes (unlike ribbon cutting). So you can forget about that. Making funds come from multiple, different sources make sit fair for everybody. We cannot just pile more taxes on top of homeowners. Spread it around.
And that's one of the major problems with our political system. As Churchill declared, "democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the others."
     
     
  #1509  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 5:25 PM
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Some news regarding the Evergreen Line from Dumb and Drunker themselves:

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A few awkward moments marked a visit to the Lower Mainland by Prime Minister Stephen Harper Tuesday, as he and B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell were asked about funding of transit projects in the Vancouver area.

Harper seemed uncertain when asked at a news conference in Pitt Meadows, B.C., about a claim by TransLink the transit planning authority that there is not enough money on the table to build a long-planned rapid transit line to Coquitlam.

"The federal government my understanding is committed to being a partner on the Evergreen Line," the prime minister said.

He turned to Campbell for confirmation.

"Do you want to give us any update on that? Is there anything changed? As far as I know we're building the Evergreen Line," Harper said.

The premier responded that his government does expect to build the Evergreen Line.

"We also expect TransLink and the TransLink board to live within the legislated framework that has been established," said Campbell.
     
     
  #1510  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjauk View Post
And that's one of the major problems with our political system. As Churchill declared, "democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the others."
No doubt. The Province is trying to wash their hands of the Translink funding issue, as in your quote below. The problem is that the province themselves gave Translink a crappy pile of different funding options, which is terrible PR for the Translink group. For that the provincial government needs their feet held to the fire. One sufficient area of tax is a much better way of doing it. Whenever Translink tries to get more money, they have to tax some very visible areas. If they were given all gas tax, or 1% of PST, or a certain $ per person in their managed area, that would make a lot more sense.

If health care was funded in a similar manner, you can bet more people would at least be open to some private care options.
     
     
  #1511  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 6:39 PM
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Review lets Liberals dodge transit decisions


By Craig McInnes, Vancouver Sun
August 5, 2009


The provincial government is calling on one of the oldest dodges in the book to cope with the bad news coming out of TransLink and BC Ferries.

Rather than face up to the tough choices that are going to be made to keep the entities set up by their own government operating in the black, Transportation Minister Shirley Bond and Finance Minister Colin Hansen have asked the comptroller-general to conduct a wide-ranging review of both organizations based on the notion that if only they were better managed, they could build new transit lines, float more boats and keep the buses running without any increases in fares, taxes or tolls.

Premier Gordon Campbell reinforced the message last week, saying that TransLink needs to get its own house in order before looking for any new revenue from taxpayers.

"I think that before people start talking about tax increases, they should start talking about savings in their own organization," Campbell said, without pointing to anything specific that should be done.

TransLink says it is $450 million short of what it needs to continue operating through 2011 based on its current obligations and the provincially backed plan to build the long-promised Evergreen rapid transit line.

It has proposed two new controversial revenue measures that have previously been rejected by the province and which would require the approval of the legislature, an annual $122 levy on vehicles and putting tolls on existing bridges.

It has been only two years since then transportation minister Kevin Falcon blew up the old TransLink and put in a professional board of directors.

The premise then was the same as it is now: If we had competent managers, we would be able to deliver all the goodies we have been promising and you, the long-suffering taxpayer, wouldn't have to pay any more.

Then the new board came up with the same, unpalatable solutions offered by the old bunch, laying out a choice between finding more revenue by raising taxes, tolls and fares or cutting back on existing services and expansion plans.

The management at BC Ferries has a different set of problems but similar, politically unpalatable choices. The recession has led to a sharp drop in traffic, exacerbating existing losses on smaller routes. According to the ferry commission annual report released Friday, ferries on the 18 minor routes were only one-third full from January to March.

BC Ferries is required to maintain service levels on those routes regardless of demand, under its contract with the provincial government.

To stay on course, BC Ferries will have to continue to raise fares, which puts heat on the government, as would the other alternative, cutting services.

But what was Bond focusing on last week? The salary paid to senior executives, which she found "shocking."

If she is really shocked, she hasn't been paying attention. She was in cabinet when BC Ferries was reconstituted as a quasi-private company. It's no surprise that executive compensation would therefore be based on private-sector comparators (92 companies were looked at by Hewitt Associates, according to the public filing last week) rather than executives in the public sector.

Although the theme of pretending that better management, efficiency and eliminating waste is a viable alternative to taking tough decisions is routine for opposition politicians, Campbell's government has at least introduced a new wrinkle.

This is the first time I recall when a government has turned on its own offspring to deflect attention away from hard realities. Sooner or later, however, the tough choices will still have to be made. The win-win of something for nothing exists only in the never-never land of political pipe dreams.

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  #1512  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 7:12 PM
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The timing of the review is key for sure, but I'm not sure I understand where the hate is coming from. I'd be asking some key questions about expenses and efficiency myself before handing over $450m. As a taxpayer I want assurances that Translink is in fact efficient compared to other similar systems that exist in NA.

I depend on that comparison to judge whether they in fact need more funding, and what source? Maybe our fares are way lower than comparable systems (for example only )... just be more transparent.

BC Ferries is a tougher case. The BC Gov't should be directly responsible for subsidizing any shortfalls on routes they require. Everything else should be up to BC Ferries to control based on supply and demand. It's hard to argue Hahn has done a poor job, even though I'd say his salary is pretty high. What numbers are we talking about with respect to revenues and expenses for BC Ferries?
     
     
  #1513  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 9:35 PM
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The timing of the review is key for sure, but I'm not sure I understand where the hate is coming from. I'd be asking some key questions about expenses and efficiency myself before handing over $450m. As a taxpayer I want assurances that Translink is in fact efficient compared to other similar systems that exist in NA.

I depend on that comparison to judge whether they in fact need more funding, and what source? Maybe our fares are way lower than comparable systems (for example only )... just be more transparent.
Yeah, another $450 million puts Translink ahead of Montreal STM's (361M passengers a year) budget of around $800 million, ahead of Toronto(460M passengers/year) at $1.2 billion and on par in terms of funding with Boston (1.3 million passenger trips/day). We had 180 Million riders in 2008.

All those systems have much higher ridership and longer Rapid Transit lines with much more supporting commuter rail (IE: expensive systems to run and build). Where does all of our money go? But the systems aren't exactly comparable as Vancouver has it's unique attributes (Translink funds roads and covers a very large surface area). But I think the financial review is very important in determining how much more funding Translink really needs.

Personally I think CMBC is what's sucking the blood out of Translink. The company has over 600 admin and support jobs. That's about 1 office worker for every 5 bus drivers. That's absurd. As well, a large portion of the proposed $450 million needed to expand transit is going to bus service, which isn't really needed until Rapid Transit is improved.
     
     
  #1514  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 9:38 PM
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Well the Golden Ears Bridge did cost over 800 million, the fact the Translink is involved with road projects completely changes the ball game for such comparisons above, not to mention they plan to build a new Pattulla soon.
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  #1515  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 9:51 PM
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Yeah, another $450 million puts Translink ahead of Montreal STM's (361M passengers a year) budget of around $800 million, ahead of Toronto(460M passengers/year) at $1.2 billion and on par in terms of funding with Boston (1.3 million passenger trips/day). We had 180 Million riders in 2008.

All those systems have much higher ridership and longer Rapid Transit lines with much more supporting commuter rail (IE: expensive systems to run and build). Where does all of our money go? But the systems aren't exactly comparable as Vancouver has it's unique attributes (Translink funds roads and covers a very large surface area). But I think the financial review is very important in determining how much more funding Translink really needs.

Personally I think CMBC is what's sucking the blood out of Translink. The company has over 600 admin and support jobs. That's about 1 office worker for every 5 bus drivers. That's absurd. As well, a large portion of the proposed $450 million needed to expand transit is going to bus service, which isn't really needed until Rapid Transit is improved.
Don't confuse operating expenses which capital expenses. If you would bother to look into this a bit further, the issue is that TransLink is expected to put a significant amount of money into capital expenditures. Typically, these are funded by senior levels of government in other jurisdictions or the funds come from other sources such as sales tax. If the province would fund the all of capital expenditures like it did for the Expo and Millennium Line, TransLink would not need the entire $450 million per year.

The buses are needed regardless of rapid transit expansion. In fact, more would be needed if the rapid transit expansion does not happen. Many places in the region have horrible service while in other places the current buses are packed. We are about 600 buses behind where we should be right now.
     
     
  #1516  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 9:52 PM
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maybe they or someone is afraid that the evergreenline will take ridership away from the west coast express? and than they have to deal with that?
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  #1517  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 9:59 PM
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I doubt that too much ridership will be leeched from the WCE. The WCE while more expensive, is way faster from the tri-cities than taking skytrain will ever be. The main benefit, IMO, to the evergreen line is connecting the tri-cities to burnaby. There's a lot of movement between burnaby and the tri-cities.
     
     
  #1518  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 9:59 PM
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Trust me, it wont, the West Coast Express is packed before it reaches Coquitlam, essentially it is for people in Mission, Male Ridge and Pitt Meadows to get downtown.
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  #1519  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 10:09 PM
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Ridership on the WCE is already at 10,000/day for five trains westbound in the morning and five trains eastbound in the evening. If they had all-day (5 am to midnight), bi-directional service, and frequent service (a train every 15-mins in peak hours and 20-30-mins off-peak), I'm quite sure ridership would be more like 30,000/day at least. The WCE could do with running shorter but more frequent trains, ditching the locomotives and bi-level cars for trains like Bombardier's Talent vehicles....of course, we'd need to negotiate a good contract with CP first.
     
     
  #1520  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2009, 10:28 PM
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Yeah, another $450 million puts Translink ahead of Montreal STM's (361M passengers a year) budget of around $800 million, ahead of Toronto(460M passengers/year) at $1.2 billion and on par in terms of funding with Boston (1.3 million passenger trips/day). We had 180 Million riders in 2008.

All those systems have much higher ridership and longer Rapid Transit lines with much more supporting commuter rail (IE: expensive systems to run and build). Where does all of our money go? But the systems aren't exactly comparable as Vancouver has it's unique attributes (Translink funds roads and covers a very large surface area). But I think the financial review is very important in determining how much more funding Translink really needs.

Personally I think CMBC is what's sucking the blood out of Translink. The company has over 600 admin and support jobs. That's about 1 office worker for every 5 bus drivers. That's absurd. As well, a large portion of the proposed $450 million needed to expand transit is going to bus service, which isn't really needed until Rapid Transit is improved.
Translink's operating budget is less than 400 millions, and this haven't changed. The request for the 450 millions is for the capital expenditure. As far as I know, the cost recovery for CMBC is slightly more than TTC bus+street car.
     
     
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