Housing market

[mic67]

Humm...Why all the silence ...wtf this ought to be a place when there is a Royal visit. What is the problem....? Isnt anyone interested???? Oh ya I forgot this URL is only interested in the good of hamilton, cuz the glee club said previously said we know what the bad is.

Mic67

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by mic67

Humm...Why all the silence ...wtf this ought to be a place when there is a Royal visit. What is the problem....? Isnt anyone interested???? Oh ya I forgot this URL is only interested in the good of hamilton, cuz the glee club said previously said we know what the bad is.

Mic67

You got that right, it's those rose coloured glasses they have all been wearing.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by mic67

Humm...Why all the silence ...wtf this ought to be a place when there is a Royal visit. What is the problem....? Isnt anyone interested???? Oh ya I forgot this URL is only interested in the good of hamilton, cuz the glee club said previously said we know what the bad is.

Mic67

Don't take it personally. The forum hasn't been as active in general, it's summer and people aren't always around. I saw this and was thoroughly repulsed, but didn't have a chance to respond as I was heading out of town for the weekend. I've since forwarded it to a few people. It should be posted in the rental licensing bylaw thread. Scumbags like this are exactly what the bylaw is all about.

[emge]

I would watch more of it but I don't want to spend 9 minutes on a video I've seen some of the same "leftovers" when looking at houses to buy.

Having found a decent (and inexpensive) place to rent here, I know how difficult it is - but it is quite possible if one looks long enough (and takes advantage of nice places with poor advertising or poor pictures).

I completely support regulating rental housing- the profit margins on rental housing are high enough that cutting into them isn't going to harm landlords.

Besides seeing tons of garbage, electrical, fire, and structural issues, I was particularly "thrilled" with the place I saw in a rather nice area of town... that had the stairwell's window pane completely missing and pigeon excrement all over the sill. Lovely.

[Jon Dalton]

I met one of the worst landlords on friday night. My friend's power went out because his stove was screwed and it short circuited. We were cooking at the time and had to transfer everything to the barbecue. One reason I didn't make the Academica meetup on time.

This guy gave me shit for locking bikes to the back stairway on my way in (while parking a thousand cars on the lot like sardines) and demanded to know who I was visiting. Then when my friend called to say the power was out he gave him shit for that happening. Then when he came (3 hours later) to turn the power back on he gave us shit for using the barbecue. I told my friend to look up the landlord tenant act and the guy called me a smart ass.

This was the day after I'd heard about the recent landlord licensing meeting and some of the lowlifes who showed up to represent landlords. I was so tempted to ask him what he thought of the new licesing rules. He's not going to like it.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

I told my friend to look up the landlord tenant act and the guy called me a smart ass.

You're such a sh*t disturber.

[Blurr]

this latest video has little to do with Hamilton and even less to do with the housing market.

----------

Why did this guy spend so much time on this slumlord? I could never imagine signing a lease or putting a deposit with a landlord that I heard in the video.

This guy got screwed because he did not do his due diligence, I would be able to spot this slumlord from a mile away. Mr Tenant, Where is your common sense?

----------

Responsibility goes both ways, landlord and tenant.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by highwater

You're such a sh*t disturber.

I disturb it because I'm sick of taking it.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

I met one of the worst landlords on friday night. My friend's power went out because his stove was screwed and it short circuited. We were cooking at the time and had to transfer everything to the barbecue. One reason I didn't make the Academica meetup on time.

This guy gave me shit for locking bikes to the back stairway on my way in (while parking a thousand cars on the lot like sardines) and demanded to know who I was visiting. Then when my friend called to say the power was out he gave him shit for that happening. Then when he came (3 hours later) to turn the power back on he gave us shit for using the barbecue. I told my friend to look up the landlord tenant act and the guy called me a smart ass.

This was the day after I'd heard about the recent landlord licensing meeting and some of the lowlifes who showed up to represent landlords. I was so tempted to ask him what he thought of the new licesing rules. He's not going to like it.

Word of advice: If you are going to barbecue in an apartment building, don't lock up your bike to fire escape stairwell railing.

[Jon Dalton]

Funny, but you're making alot of incorrect assumptions about the situation. The barbecue was outside and the bikes weren't blocking anything. The guy was just being a dick to someone he doesn't even know.

[mic67]

"Blurr
this latest video has little to do with Hamilton and even less to do with the housing market."

Huh???

It has everything to do with it, look on the right side of the page for related videos, particularly Barton St.

This video is so bad it is good - deserving of some sort of award, in fact make it a sticky in this forum.

Where is CHCH on these sort of issues? Oh ya they are all livin in Dundass...Heb and diskin+++ Who and how many of CHCH or the Spec actually live in Hamilton proper or even the lower city? Hahah, ya right

It ought to be required viewing for those considering immigrating to Canada. It just might be the answer to clearing up any backlog in the system :}

A few minutes ago I just met a landlord of a nearby house (3bed, 3 bath detach whole house $850 +Util walking distance to the delta and center mall), tenated for 3 years, 900 lbs of rubbish was removed, 18 mouses, 4 days later and still cleaning, $3,000 in arrears for rent. Then another nearby rental just had 2 full size 1/2 height bins of rubbish removed.

Hamilton is either near the top or the bottom of "the list".

BTW the apt for sale previously mentioned is still for sale.

There are both good and bad - landlords and tenants. But the least that can be done is to kept the place to a "standard of reasonable cleanliness" <from the RTA residential tenancy act...generally and usually this is the tenants responsibility.

Also when you own a property there is something called "pride of ownership" which is void when there are tenants. One Hamiltonian told me that "in the north addresses the condition of the houses vary tremendously" and that aint no lie. There is plenty of "rent geared to income" housing by many organizations. And just simply slum investors...Toronto has out priced them.

[Blurr]

Originally Posted by mic67

"Blurr
this latest video has little to do with Hamilton and even less to do with the housing market."

Huh???

It has everything to do with it, look on the right side of the page for related videos, particularly Barton St.

This video is so bad it is good - deserving of some sort of award, in fact make it a sticky in this forum.

Where is CHCH on these sort of issues? Oh ya they are all livin in Dundass...Heb and diskin+++ Who and how many of CHCH or the Spec actually live in Hamilton proper or even the lower city? Hahah, ya right

It ought to be required viewing for those considering immigrating to Canada. It just might be the answer to clearing up any backlog in the system :}

A few minutes ago I just met a landlord of a nearby house (3bed, 3 bath detach whole house $850 +Util walking distance to the delta and center mall), tenated for 3 years, 900 lbs of rubbish was removed, 18 mouses, 4 days later and still cleaning, $3,000 in arrears for rent. Then another nearby rental just had 2 full size 1/2 height bins of rubbish removed.

Hamilton is either near the top or the bottom of "the list".

BTW the apt for sale previously mentioned is still for sale.

There are both good and bad - landlords and tenants. But the least that can be done is to kept the place to a "standard of reasonable cleanliness" <from the RTA residential tenancy act...generally and usually this is the tenants responsibility.

Also when you own a property there is something called "pride of ownership" which is void when there are tenants. One Hamiltonian told me that "in the north addresses the condition of the houses vary tremendously" and that aint no lie. There is plenty of "rent geared to income" housing by many organizations. And just simply slum investors...Toronto has out priced them.

There are slumlords everywhere, especially where there is low income housing. Much of low income housing is not profitable, and so yes, buildings get under invested (no return on investment), this is not a Hamilton phenomenon. This is why you do not see private capital moving into low income housing and therefore social housing is public. Even when there is public ownership (see City of Toronto Slumlord) underinvestment and revenue drain occurs.

This video does not portray a typical landlord, it is a set up. Like I said earlier, this guy was not doing his due diligence. There are about 1000 apartments/houses for rent on Kijiji right now and this guy got involved with this landlord? This guy wasting his time. To me, this means this guy is not bright, or he has an alternative motive.

[Blurr]

similar to my point above.

http://www.four-pillars.ca/2009/07/14/slumlords/

[mic67]

I have plenty of experience with rentals from both a tenant and landlords perspective. And generally I would say that there is a bias in favor of tenants at the Tribunal, except when it is arrears in rent. So what occurred with the tenant in the video at the Tri. was soooooooo un typical.

Beginning in the late 90's in Toronto multi dwelling units, which were usually sought after and commanded a good price - as it paid the mortgage. The 30 something crowd became house buyers and did not want to be landlords, period. Since that time 4 properties in the family that were multires. were sold and converted back to single family.

In Hamilton it is possible to have a house carry itself as a rental (for the most part), I know enough of them already. That is not possible in any way in Toronto.

Low income rental is significant in Hamilton, both private, corporate and organizational. Windsor, chatham, cornwall, thunderbay.... I am in Hamilton for the affordability of housing, many are.

First of all there is no reason for so much garbage and filth to exist with rentals and that is mostly exclusively a tenant thing. The tenant in the video got the garbage and filth of previous tenants.

If you are a small time landlord you ought to expect to do alot of work yourself and if not why are you a landlord. I also know of situations where tenants did not want anything done so as to not have the rent increase. As a landlord - if the maintenance is not kept up it costs more and eventually makes the place unrentable.

I spent alot of time looking for rentals in Hamilton and Toronto, they dont take down signs when a place is rented, that happens alot, an awful lot, and many of the rentals are outdated
Address: 133 Stinson St, Hamilton, ON, L8N View map
Date Listed: 27-May-09

From http://hamilton.kijiji.ca/

So there is no where near the availability that you suggest.

I dont believe nor does anyone, really believe this " portrays a typical landlord". The video is not a setup by any means, why, what for? But there is clearly no shortage of them in Hamilton, thats for sure.


http://www.four-pillars.ca/2009/02/2...good-landlord/

"Mark February 26, 2009 at 11:42 am

My wife & I decided to move from Montreal and took the steps to sell our properties.
One of our properties is a condo that was rented out. The tenant was an outstanding young man; very polite to both my wife & I, never exagerating in his demands. The only thing was: he never cleaned the condo while he lived there…
Our tenant understood our decision to sell but never went out of his way to clean the place up when our agent had prospective buyers visit…
One prospective buyer even told me I’d have a serious problem selling the place…
Well, we did sell it to a gentleman who was looking for a condo he could renovate to his liking.
We figure we lost about 5k in the transaction but I also figure that it would have cost me close to 10k to get the place back in order…
In the end, my tenant left (he couldn’t pay me anymore) and the timing of his departure and the sale of the unit couldn’t have been better.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t get me wrong, there are good tenants out there but I figure that for every good tenant, there must be 8-9 who don’t give a damn about your property.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Living in Quebec just means that the Régie du Loyer (Gov’t hand that handles leases & such) works for the tenants and definitely not for the owners - they think we are all money groveling fanatics who just want to profit from our tenants… By the way, I had previously taken the steps to tell my tenant I wasn’t renewing his lease but when I asked the Régie how long it could take if I wanted to evict him: they said approximately 6 months (and that’s if everything was going right)…"


That is a great link you provided and I particularly like

http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/02/1...uying-a-house/

"Why You Can’t Trust Real Estate Agents When Buying A House"

Mic67

[Blurr]

I have plenty of experience with rentals from both a tenant and landlords perspective. And generally I would say that there is a bias in favor of tenants at the Tribunal, except when it is arrears in rent. So what occurred with the tenant in the video at the Tri. was soooooooo un typical.

Yes, I am aware of the bias.

In this case I could tell from the slumlords whinny voice that he was a slumlord, it is a shocking defeat.

In Hamilton it is possible to have a house carry itself as a rental (for the most part), I know enough of them already. That is not possible in any way in Toronto.

I agree.

Low income rental is significant in Hamilton, both private, corporate and organizational. Windsor, chatham, cornwall, thunderbay.... I am in Hamilton for the affordability of housing, many are.

Me too. I came for the housing. My first choice was Toronto, but quickly got discouraged. There is clearly more upside potential in Hamilton. Plus, going along for the ride will be fun.

If you are a small time landlord you ought to expect to do alot of work yourself and if not why are you a landlord. I also know of situations where tenants did not want anything done so as to not have the rent increase. As a landlord - if the maintenance is not kept up it costs more and eventually makes the place unrentable.

A fair bit of the good deals in the housing market are from wounded and frustrated small landlords.

I spent alot of time looking for rentals in Hamilton and Toronto, they dont take down signs when a place is rented, that happens alot, an awful lot, and many of the rentals are outdated

Yes but I still stand by my opinion that there are over 1000 apartments/houses available for rent right now in Hamilton. Kijiji is just one of the sources for rentals.

I dont believe nor does anyone, really believe this " portrays a typical landlord". The video is not a setup by any means, why, what for? But there is clearly no shortage of them in Hamilton, thats for sure.

The housing stock in Downtown Hamilton has not seen sufficient investment and repair in 30 years. This is not just due to slumlords (which I pointed out are more abundant in low income areas due to no return on investment). It is also due to lenders giving unfavorable treatment to the downtown, a concentration of renters, and a weak employment environment.

Let me also point out that the proposed licensing of rentals Hamilton has come up with will not help the situation, but will in fact hurt. It will create disincentive for good landlords to run their business in Hamilton. It will also raise rents. There is no clear evidence that licensing has been successful in the US, and there is no where to look in Canada for analysis. Frankly, I don't think that The City of Hamilton is up for the job either.

...If there is a slumlord in an area, go after the slumlord, not everyone.

The Hamilton Hotel that just sold is a good example. That building has broken windows and unfavorable tenants with rotting facade and so on. Why punish the whole street of james north who has tenants when clearly the problem is that one building?

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by Blurr

Let me also point out that the proposed licensing of rentals Hamilton has come up with will not help the situation, but will in fact hurt. It will create disincentive for good landlords to run their business in Hamilton. It will also raise rents. There is no clear evidence that licensing has been successful in the US, and there is no where to look in Canada for analysis. Frankly, I don't think that The City of Hamilton is up for the job either.

...If there is a slumlord in an area, go after the slumlord, not everyone.

In order to go after a slumlord you need to have a method of going after the slumlord. If there is no method you can't go after anything. Will the City of Hamilton do landlord licensing it properly? I don't know.

How do you know it's going to increase rents? Do you know the fee structure that will be involved with the licensing?

Just curious, if you have insight as I've seen no mention of the cost to get a license. It might only be $50, I don't know. But if you have concrete information on how it will increase rents please share.

Finally, have you been to any of the Licensing Landlords meetings? I have and was shocked by what I heard coming out of the mouths of the self-described "Good Landlords".

[Blurr]

In order to go after a slumlord you need to have a method of going after the slumlord.

There is a method. You have your choice of the landlord and tenant board, community services, housing, legal aid (taxpayer funded), regular courts, tenant advocacy groups (taxpayer funded), the building department, the media...

How do you know it's going to increase rents? Do you know the fee structure that will be involved with the licensing?

It will raise rents, in the event that rents cannot be raised due to market conditions, it will discourage investment because assets in the area will be subject to the licensing fee, which is effectively a tax. Hamilton tenants already pay the highest tax rate in Southern Ontario. Also, this creates disincentive for new rental housing, as the higher tax has a direct effect on the value of rental housing.

Just curious, if you have insight as I've seen no mention of the cost to get a license. It might only be $50, I don't know. But if you have concrete information on how it will increase rents please share.

No I don't have concrete example, it is a new concept in Canada. I know Milwaukee did a study of 15 US cities with licensing and came up with this conclusion in their report...

“The City of Milwaukee should not create a rental unit licensing program because it would not be an effective regulatory or revenue mechanism. We take this position based on the projected high administrative costs, political opposition, possible effects on low-income housing, and uncertain benefits.”

Finally, have you been to any of the Licensing Landlords meetings? I have and was shocked by what I heard coming out of the mouths of the self-described "Good Landlords".

I have spoken to councilors about licensing but I have not been to one of the meetings.

Understand that defending against tenants is tough. Return on investment and net operating income are not sexy arguments like flooded basement or cockroach infestation.

It is the old Widows and Orphans argument. You can make yourself impervious to criticism if you create an organization that ostensibly protects widows and orphans. If anyone opposes you or even criticizes you, it appears that they oppose widows and orphans.

As soon as you object a tenant, it is easy to be labeled a bad landlord, or someone without a conscience and as if you are against tenants, as tenants are protected under this class.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by Blurr

There is a method. You have your choice of the landlord and tenant board, community services, housing, legal aid (taxpayer funded), regular courts, tenant advocacy groups (taxpayer funded), the building department, the media...

Yeah right. Do you know that a city employee who requests access to a rental unit has to say something to the effect, "By allowing me access, you could be evicted"? And the city says they need access to do anything. A Catch 22 if I've ever heard of one.

It will raise rents, in the event that rents cannot be raised due to market conditions, it will discourage investment because assets in the area will be subject to the licensing fee, which is effectively a tax. Hamilton tenants already pay the highest tax rate in Southern Ontario. Also, this creates disincentive for new rental housing, as the higher tax has a direct effect on the value of rental housing.

Discourage investment, that's laughable. I don't know where you live but as I type this I'm looking at 9 houses, 8 multi-rentals (all illegal) and 1 single family residence (not my own). How will this discourage investment, when it's already there?

Tenants don't pay taxes, the landlord does. The 4 unit house next to me pays $3K per year in property taxes and generates $30K in revenue, I pay $2,700 per year in my single family home. Taxes are paid by landlord and are small part of a landlords expenses, period.

No I don't have concrete example, it is a new concept in Canada. I know Milwaukee did a study of 15 US cities with licensing and came up with this conclusion in their report...

“The City of Milwaukee should not create a rental unit licensing program because it would not be an effective regulatory or revenue mechanism. We take this position based on the projected high administrative costs, political opposition, possible effects on low-income housing, and uncertain benefits.”

Canada and the US are very different places. Kind of like me saying a hockey team wasn't successful in Phoenix, so it won't be successful in Canada. And studies are notoriously biased for those who funded it. Is it just me or does a statement like that sound extremely biased.

I have spoken to councilors about licensing but I have not been to one of the meetings.

Understand that defending against tenants is tough. Return on investment and net operating income are not sexy arguments like flooded basement or cockroach infestation.

It is the old Widows and Orphans argument. You can make yourself impervious to criticism if you create an organization that ostensibly protects widows and orphans. If anyone opposes you or even criticizes you, it appears that they oppose widows and orphans.

As soon as you object a tenant, it is easy to be labeled a bad landlord, or someone without a conscience and as if you are against tenants, as tenants are protected under this class.

I didn't think you'd been to a meeting. The 'good' landlords who have full time jobs and 20 properties (50+ units), complaining the city cites them for bylaw violations. The guy collects cheques and cruises by his properties every few months...... These guys treated being a landlord as a hobby, not a business. And that's just a start of what came out of their mouths.....

Years ago, my father, a plumber by trade, who was licensed in Toronto had to write a test and get a license to plumb 6 houses in Hamilton. We license certified plumbers who are licensed in a neighbouring municpalities to do business in Hamilton, why not landlords who run their whole businesses here?

[Blurr]

Yeah right. Do you know that a city employee who requests access to a rental unit has to say something to the effect, "By allowing me access, you could be evicted"? And the city says they need access to do anything. A Catch 22 if I've ever heard of one.

Please show me the actual proof of a case in which what you are suggesting actually happened. It sounds absolutely ridiculous - the tenants advocacy groups and free legal aid and media would be all over the city and the landlord if that scenario actually went through.

what about the other handful of methods I mentioned? FREE legal aid, FREE Tenant advocacy groups. You could get one of them on your side to help you navigate the system (which really isn't difficult).

Discourage investment, that's laughable. I don't know where you live but as I type this I'm looking at 9 houses, 8 multi-rentals (all illegal) and 1 single family residence (not my own). How will this discourage investment, when it's already there?

You have emotional attachment to this issue, so I understand your grievance with certain tenants. I have the same grievance.

Despite the above you probably bought your house for a good price given the size of it, and a reason for that price, is that it is a poor rental area (with what I am presuming are bad tenants). In addition, with the change in peoples preference for downtown and cheaper more carefree living, I think that you will continue to see better and better quality tenants moving around you in the years to come. I have noticed this in my neighbourhood lately, as the garbage people are not around as frequent and are being replaced by good people. By the way, I live in a neighbourhood with the exact characteristics as yours.

Big houses Should be divided, as I believe it is actually a great way to increase density and make use of houses too big for today's preferences. There are many success stories with divided houses, such as high park and the southwest of hamilton.

Tenants don't pay taxes, the landlord does. The 4 unit house next to me pays $3K per year in property taxes and generates $30K in revenue, I pay $2,700 per year in my single family home. Taxes are paid by landlord and are small part of a landlords expenses, period.

You are wrong. If that is the case, then why are tenant advocacy groups partnering with landlord groups to get the rental taxes down in the city and more in line with homeowners?

Canada and the US are very different places. Kind of like me saying a hockey team wasn't successful in Phoenix, so it won't be successful in Canada. And studies are notoriously biased for those who funded it. Is it just me or does a statement like that sound extremely biased.

There is no Canadian example, I had mentioned that. Yes, I agree it would be my first choice to look at a Canadian example if it existed.

The recommendation came from the City of Milwaukee, not a special interest group. It may seem biased to you - if you disagree with it so much, but the source is more reliable than if a landlord or tenant issued the report.

Another key point in the report was how the program was unlikely to completely fund itself, meaning that taxes would have to be raised in other places to fund the licensing program.

I didn't think you'd been to a meeting. The 'good' landlords who have full time jobs and 20 properties (50+ units), complaining the city cites them for bylaw violations. The guy collects cheques and cruises by his properties every few months...... These guys treated being a landlord as a hobby, not a business. And that's just a start of what came out of their mouths.....

I have been to a meeting with landlords only and yes, some of them said crazy things - the majority of the landlords disagreed. If you would like to mention something specific, I would be glad to offer my opinion on it.

As the city is seen as an attractive place to invest by more and more professional property management companies, which have a higher standard of ethics - the community and tenants will benefit. It is happening as we speak, as Hamilton is seen a place for investment again. This along with inflow of people in Hamilton will result in more livable neighbourhoods.

Years ago, my father, a plumber by trade, who was licensed in Toronto had to write a test and get a license to plumb 6 houses in Hamilton. We license certified plumbers who are licensed in a neighbouring municpalities to do business in Hamilton, why not landlords who run their whole businesses here?

1. Tenants in Hamilton already pay the highest residential rental tax rate in Ontario. We should be looking to lower that, not increase it.

2. There is little evidence that it works in the US, or in Canada.

3. There are sufficient places that a tenant may go, at no charge, to deal with slumlords in our province, which is tenant friendly.

4. The study shows that in its review of 15 cities, the licensing program likely will not fund itself, which means you Mr. Homeowner will be getting a higher tax bill next year.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by Blurr

1. Tenants in Hamilton already pay the highest residential rental tax rate in Ontario. We should be looking to lower that, not increase it.

Sometimes I wonder why more isn't made of this rental tax rate. According to the form the city sent out, the property taxes on my apartment was estimated at $2300 (and was probably higher because the number was an average for the building which includes a mix of one and two bedroom units and I have two bedroom unit). Seems a bit ridiculous to me compared to a house.