Freeport-McMoRan Center (One Central Park East) - Phoenix, AZ

[Tranquility]

Originally Posted by Evil Empire

I've seen the exact opposite as far as what you mentioned about them having higher rates of crime from different sources, you can find most of the studies on Google, especially from the Center for Immigration Studies. And, no, I'm not saying that they have an amazing effect on society here...there definitely needs to be a change in the policy and there needs to be enforcement for the offenders but not in the way they're going about it...spending millions of dollars, then getting millions of dollars EXTRA to raid workplaces, block off streets, disrupt neighborhoods and put on a big show for everyone when the state is sinking financially? It's ridiculous.

Just because you invite every cameraman in the Phoenix metro area to witness the amazing Joe arrest 40 people and have 12 of them turn out to be undocumented doesn't mean he's the "only one doing something about it", while probably a couple hundred more crossed the border during his "crackdowns." Phoenix PD and the other law enforcement agencies in the valley routinely try to make a dent in the problem by quietly arresting and deporting offenders but they don't make a — circus out of it.

I agree that the way our Sheriff is going about dealing with immigrants isn't very cost effective and that it is mostly for show. however, he seems like the only high profile arizona politician who doesn't want to ignore the problem completely; so in my book, he deserves credit for keeping the issue on the radar and keeping the pressure on other politicians, even if he is only doing it for his own interests. The employer sanctions law needs to be given teeth in order for the problem to be solved.


Tfom:Check your research. Every scientifically conducted study has shown the illegal immigrants have a lower rate of crime than low socioeconomic americans. Its on par with college educated americans. People whine about education but the funds for that come from property taxes and some sales taxes which illegal immigrants pay. Everyone wants to focus on the "leaching" of our social programs but doesn't want to admit that they don't mind the lower cost of construction that comes from illegal labor. People say they want to hire americans right up to the point it costs more or produces less efficient work. If we had a real solution to this problem it coulf benefit everyone.


i doubt that illegals commit crimes on a lower basis than other low socioeconomic americans. even if they do, they can't be too much lower. the point is that there is an overwhelming influx of low socioeconomic people that the state won't be able to effectively handle if trends continue the way they have for the last 10 years. yes they generate money and provide lower construction costs, but not much of that money they receive goes back to the government but you can be sure a lot of government money goes to supporting them. a fair amount of it actually goes back to relatives in mexico. like i said earlier, the employer sanctions law need to be given more weight to it. its clear to me that neither of us is going to sway the other so lets try to stay on topic shall we?

[Vicelord John]

the crime is generated by the second generation mexicans. It's the hard working mexican national parents 18-25 year old kids who cause all the problems. The parents go to work at their landscaping and housekeeping jobs and work their asses off while their douchebag kids get kicked out of school and steal purses for weed money. I'm speaking from absolute personal experience, and there isn't a whole lot of arguing this. Weed out all 18-25 year old mexican males, and the world will be a safer place.

[Evil Empire]

Originally Posted by Tranquility

I agree that the way our Sheriff is going about dealing with immigrants isn't very cost effective and that it is mostly for show. however, he seems like the only high profile arizona politician who doesn't want to ignore the problem completely; so in my book, he deserves credit for keeping the issue on the radar and keeping the pressure on other politicians, even if he is only doing it for his own interests. The employer sanctions law needs to be given teeth in order for the problem to be solved.

I don't think others are ignoring it, the other agencies are still enforcing the law but it's like you said, he's mostly doing it for show and because it's a hot button issue, I don't think it would go away if he stopped doing his high-profile sweeps.

And the employer sanctions law does need to be enforced. People don't put nearly as enough pressure or blame on the employers themselves. The reason that undocumented immigrants came here in the first place was because they knew that they would get hired. If you want to solve the problem, you have to find the source...and the source here is American business owners. People are mad at companies for hiring illegal immigrants and outsourcing jobs to other countries when it's their fellow Americans that are causing that...it's capitalism, plain and simple. Business owners' greed is causing those problems, and while it may be shameful, it makes sense from their point of view. Why would you hire Americans when you could hire people from or in other countries for a shameful amount?

[BA744PHX]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

Weed out all 18-25 year old mexican males, and the world will be a safer place.

And lets not forget your white trashy —. lord knows we need less white trash drunks on the street

[Evil Empire]

Originally Posted by Daltnpapi4u

And lets not forget your white trashy —. lord knows we need less white trash drunks on the street

I think we can all agree that there needs to be less human trash of any race & ethnicity on the street...

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by Daltnpapi4u

And lets not forget your white trashy —. lord knows we need less white trash drunks on the street

oh look, there you go again. The guy who likes to make personal attacks on people he has never met.

I don't think I am in any way, shape, or form white trash or a drunk. I drink maybe once every week or two and don't listen to country, wear oakley wrap arounds, watch nascar, or say git r done on any occasion.

Stop taking things so seriously and trying to make a personal issue out of it. If you feel threatened or hurt by my generalizations, then so be it, but it's not meant to be directed at daltnpapi4u.

I hate how people have these conversations they think are taboo or shouldn't be ever brought up because it's not "PC." That's retarded. If you have an opinion, and you have something to talk about, then by all means talk about it. If nobody wants to talk about it, then thats it, and if nobody agrees with you, you can have a debate about it. What the — is wrong with this logic?

If you're offended by racial slurs, generalizations, or really anything for that matter, you need to spend some time seeing the big picture. There are far more important things to worry about in this world than OMG he said weed out the criminal mexicans. Evil Empire, thank you. Trash is trash. It just so happens that every 50 year old hard working mexican couple has a — young kid with a LA hat, ray bans, and stupid baggy dickies shorts. I can't help that, none of us can, but that group if individuals is responsible for MOST CRIME, in a city where a majority of crimes are gang related. Take that demographic away (18-25 year old mexican males) , and I guarantee you have a huge chunk of your crime gone. daltnpapi, this is not saying they are the only ones who commit crimes, you dumb uptight retard, it is just saying that in Phoenix, that is it. In Chicago, it's young poor blacks, in Portland it is young skinhead whites....

stop being so god damned defensive.

[Jsmscaleros]

While John may or may not be correct, I still think his comment is not constructive and moot, considering the fact that 18-25 year old mexican males aren't going anywhere, and are actually probably increasing in number here in Phoenix.

Comments like that don't solve problems or start constructive dialogue, they just tend to piss people off.

[HX_Guy]

Just about done...

Photos by gymratmanaz.

[Sonoran_Dweller]

Supposed to open this fall, right? Sometime in October or something?

[gymratmanaz]

That is the battle plan.

Also, a friend of mine who designed OCPE said there will be a couple of tenants announced soon.

[Leo the Dog]

Thanks again for the photos again gymratman.

I can't wait for the new landscaping to go in!

[Vicelord John]

know what I would like to see? I would like to see no — open space like that on central avenue in downtown phoenix.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

know what I would like to see? I would like to see no — open space like that on central avenue in downtown phoenix.

I definitely agree with that...that was my first impression too, but since it is built with a huge setback from Central, I really hope they fill in that open space with large shade trees from the setting Western Sun.

[Jsmscaleros]

^^^^Agreed - I think added foliage will do the street scape well, though. I've seen the plans and I don't think it will have the same isolated effect that Chase Tower has. It appears to be much more welcoming - lots of trees and not sunken below the street level.

[Vicelord John]

yeah I'm sure it will be welcoming, and just like chase, they will have some doucebag rent a cop who thinks he is tough — telling people its private property.

BTW, I saw a TEAM security guy working at the jellyfish park last week telling someone to get off his bike because you cannot ride a bike in the park (no signs say you can't ride a bike.) I wanted to slap him and tell him a) he isn't a real cop... real cops have — and badges and b) he is a roid rage —. It made me sick when the kid actually complied and started walking his bike. I'd have told that guy so quick to call a real cop and have him tell me to get off my bike. I even thought about riding over there to — with him.

[glynnjamin]

hate to disagree with you john but the rules are clearly stated at every side of the park and they prohibit bikes, skateboards, and roller skates (segways too...but not explicitly).

I do think it is a stupid policy to have a park that you can't ride a bike through but I think it has to do with the dirt paths and the grass more than anything else.

[SunDevil]

I completely love your third picture on this page HX_guy.

[gymratmanaz]

I thought I would get artsy fartsy with that picture. Thanks. You really get a good look at the new glass that way. Glad you liked.

[kingofleos]

Shouldn't this be on GoogleEarth by now? In looking at the 3D buidings of downtown this is still completely missing.

I noticed in another city on GoogleEarth a building under construction was shown. Wonder why this isn't on there (and along with the Wachovia tower under construction).

[gymratmanaz]

It all depends on when they took the pictures for google earth. It is not like they update them weekly.