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  #481  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds View Post
Salt Lake City's boundaries are huge, but a good chunk of that lies in an area that's uninhabitable due to poor ground. This is mostly everything west of 215.
This area is not uninhabitable. The city's master plan calls for residential, commercial, office, industrial development to occur in the areas known as the Northwest and the Northwest Quadrant.

Here are some maps from the master plans showing potential land usage:

Northwest (including Rose Park and the airport):



and the Northwest Quadrant:
     
     
  #482  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 9:04 PM
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Except for the area northwest of the international center, there aren't many places left to build single family homes in Salt Lake proper. Any increase in residential population (besides annexation) will have to come from redevelopment and especially condos. Of which, SLC is seeing a large increase of within the last 1-2 years and have many obvious developments underway.
     
     
  #483  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds View Post
Salt Lake City's boundaries are huge, but a good chunk of that lies in an area that's uninhabitable due to poor ground. This is mostly everything west of 215.

Let's remember, Salt Lake stretches all the way out to 8800 West over in Northpointe by the Great Salt Lake.

To put that in context, this area is just as west as Magna, though obviously to the north.

Which is why Salt Lake's density numbers are always deceiving, because they incorporate not only that western swatch, but also a huge area of mountain north-east of the city (diagonal from the Avenues).

You can't build on this area. So Salt Lake's buildable land is essentially already developed (everything east of 215 to the mountains).

Which means you can probably fit what has been developed into the incorporated part of the city and still have room.

So Salt Lake is 110.4 square miles and Boise is only 64 square miles.

However, that contains most of Boise's urban area -- land that has been used for city development. Not all, mind you, but a great deal more than Salt Lake.

If Salt Lake City's proper was solely the area of the city built up and not the huge area of land west of the city that will never be developed, it would be about 45 square miles of land -- maybe even less.

That's a pretty stark difference and explains why Salt Lake's population has never pushed beyond 200,000.

To get beyond that point, it's going to take larger and more denser developments. Because, outside of a few locations on the western side of the city, there just isn't anymore area to grow -- unless you grow up.

To illustrate my point more, here is the map of Salt Lake's boundaries.



As you can see, a lot of land there that has yet to be developed or has only been developed by light industrial.

I don't know many other cities with less than half their square miles developed.

I'm sure they're out there, but not many -- or at least many as big as Salt Lake (both in population and size).
And that 110 square miles SLC has, is actually on the low-end for major cities (many have between 300-500, while some like Dallas go as high as 1000 sq. miles. Check Wiki or Census for exacts). Plus there's not much in terms of dense urbanization, such as high-rise condos.

I wonder if ever another city in Utah looks like it may overtake SLC's population (possibly a St. George, Eagle Mountain) if some annexation doesn't go on. (Holladay, Cottonwood Heights, South Salt Lake, North Salt Lake, come to mind). I can't think of any other city where their main city doesn't have the biggest population.
     
     
  #484  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 10:02 PM
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Both Eagle Mtn and St George are projected to have larger populations than SLC.
     
     
  #485  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
This area is not uninhabitable. The city's master plan calls for residential, commercial, office, industrial development to occur in the areas known as the Northwest and the Northwest Quadrant.

Here are some maps from the master plans showing potential land usage:

Northwest (including Rose Park and the airport):



and the Northwest Quadrant:
Well that's good to know, though I think we're decades from anything being developed out that way.
     
     
  #486  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 12:00 AM
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Both Eagle Mtn and St George are projected to have larger populations than SLC.
When? If true, this is deeply disturbing. I mean, Eagle Mountain!?
     
     
  #487  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 1:09 AM
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Meh, I don't take much stock in future projections. Growth patterns change over the years and for all we know, in 20 years, Eagle Mountain will still be a nothing.
     
     
  #488  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 1:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds View Post
Meh, I don't take much stock in future projections. Growth patterns change over the years and for all we know, in 20 years, Eagle Mountain will still be a nothing.
Yah, I doubt Eagle Mountain will ever top 50,000.
     
     
  #489  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 2:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
Yah, I doubt Eagle Mountain will ever top 50,000.
Eagle Mountain up to 22,000 with new census estimates today (about 2,500 increase from last year). I think it'll reach that number pretty easily. I don't know about it topping SLC though. Same with St. George, which is estimated at about 72,000 right now. I know St. George has about half the land area right now compared to SLC, but I dont really know about land available for annexation. Plus, SLC is starting to really dense up with apartments, mid and high-rises, seeing there's not really any new area for development.
     
     
  #490  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 3:36 AM
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Well, I wouldn't place any bets against St. George becoming the most populuos city in Utah over the next 30 or so years. It could happen very easily and it certainly wouldn't be a surprise. It's proximity to Vegas and So. Cal. along with it's moderate climate and surrounding beauty make it a very strong possibility.
     
     
  #491  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 4:49 AM
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Well, I wouldn't place any bets against St. George becoming the most populuos city in Utah over the next 30 or so years. It could happen very easily and it certainly wouldn't be a surprise. It's proximity to Vegas and So. Cal. along with it's moderate climate and surrounding beauty make it a very strong possibility.
Sometimes though it just depends on how much area you have, and I know there's a lot of mountain/rocky terrain around there that's not very developable.
     
     
  #492  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 5:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
Both Eagle Mtn and St George are projected to have larger populations than SLC.
Projections are just a continuation of the current trends. Trends change, therefore projections are not always helpful.

I sure hope some nation-wide urban growth boundary policy is implemented soon!
     
     
  #493  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 12:21 PM
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Salt Lake ranks among most family-friendly cities

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705314239/SL-among-family-friendly-cities.html

...The analysis of the 40 largest cities in America compared the median income there with a "no-frills budget" for a family of two parents and two children.

On average, Salt Lakers spend just 68 percent of their $64,400 median income on necessary expenses. Residents of Detroit, Baltimore and San Francisco also spend 68 percent of their incomes on family budgets, according to Forbes.

.
     
     
  #494  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 12:48 PM
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Spies like us: NSA to build huge facility in Utah

Civilian jobs » The facility could offer more than 1,000 high-tech jobs for the state.

By Matthew D. LaPlante
The Salt Lake Tribune


Hoping to protect its top-secret operations by decentralizing its massive computer hubs, the National Security Agency will build a 1-million-square-foot data center at Utah's Camp Williams.

The years-in-the-making project, which may cost billions over time, got a $181 million start last week when President Obama signed a war spending bill in which Congress agreed to pay for primary construction, power access and security infrastructure. The enormous building, which will have a footprint about three times the size of the Utah State Capitol building, will be constructed on a 200-acre site near the Utah National Guard facility's runway.

Congressional records show that initial construction -- which may begin this year -- will include tens of millions in electrical work and utility construction, a $9.3 million vehicle inspection facility, and $6.8 million in perimeter security fencing. The budget also allots $6.5 million for the relocation of an existing access road, communications building and training area.

Officials familiar with the project say it may bring as many as 1,200 high-tech jobs to Camp Williams, which borders Salt Lake, Utah and Tooele counties.

It will also require at least 65 megawatts of power -- about the same amount used by every home in Salt Lake City combined. A separate power substation will have to be built at Camp Williams to sustain that demand, said Col. Scott Olson, the Utah National Guard's legislative liaison.

He noted that there were two significant power corridors that ran though Camp Williams -- a chief factor in the NSA's desire to build there.

The NSA bills itself as the home of America's codemakers and codebreakers, but the Department of Defense agency is perhaps better known for its signals intelligence program, which is reported to have the capacity to tap into a significant amount of the world's communications. The agency also has been the subject of significant criticism by civil libertarians, who have accused it of unwarranted monitoring of the communications of U.S. citizens.

The NSA's heavily automated computerized operations have for years been based at Fort Meade, Maryland, but the agency began looking to decentralize its efforts following the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Propelling that desire was the insatiable energy appetite of the agency's computers. In 2006, the Baltimore Sun reported that the NSA -- Baltimore Gas & Electric's biggest customer -- had maxed out the local grid and could not bring online several supercomputers it needed to expand its operations.

About the same time, NSA officials, who have a long-standing relationship with Utah based on the state Guard's unique linguist units, approached state officials about finding land in the state on which to build an additional data center.

Olson said NSA officials also seemed drawn to Utah's increasing reputation as a center of technical industry and the area's more traditional role as a transportation hub.

"They were looking at secure sites, where there could be a natural nexus between organizations and where space was available," he said. "The stars just kind of came into alignment. We could provide them everything they need."

The agency is building a similar center in San Antonio at the site of a former Sony microchip plant.

Sen. Orrin Hatch, the longest-serving member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, refused to answer questions about the project. Officials from Hatch's office said they were not at liberty to discuss a classified matter, though it is referenced in several public documents and has been spoken about openly by state officials for the past week.

NSA officials also declined to comment immediately on the project, but pledged to answer questions later this week.



..
     
     
  #495  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 1:04 PM
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Wow, this will have major ramifications for the metro, particularly the Lehi/No. Ut. County and Southern Salt lake County areas. The ancillary spin off of this has huge potential.

Continuing on with yesterday's discussion, perhaps Lehi will enter the top five in population sooner than we think. This will certainly cement the planned major projects around the I-15/90 junction sooner than later.

This is a tremendous coup for Metro Salt Lake and it's ability to attract future high paying tech jobs and tech expansion.
     
     
  #496  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 2:28 PM
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With all of this population discussions, remember that Utah is the fastest growing state in Nation. I do not remember the source of off the top of my bald head, however someone posted the link on one of the Utah related threads.

Someone tell me "Go West young (old) man". Could it be in my future???
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  #497  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 3:19 PM
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I like the number and type of jobs, but the amount of power used by this facility is a bit staggering. 65 megawatts? What about building a showcase alternative energy plant of some sort, geothermal, solar array, wind, etc. or combination to offset at least a portion of the 65 megawatts. Or at least design the building to be as energy efficient as possible. Obviously the environmental, meterological, etc, conditions need to be able to support what ever technology is used.

This will be a huge boon to the local economy in that area. Unfortunately I think it will mainly result in sprawl development: single family detached homes spread out over raw land with auto oriented retail to support it. This would be the perfect opportunity for a place like Lehi, which also gets all of the traffic generated by the cities west of Utah Lake, to create a nice little town center and take advantage of all of the people that will be passing through.
     
     
  #498  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 4:11 PM
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I agree on all points Cololi, also the need for Lehi to concentrate on it's historical village center. There is tremendous potential on Lehi's old main street and also the old State Street/89 corridor. Lehi could create for itself a Main with much the same feel as Park City's Main. I just hope a few people with vision, such as an Ashton will influence the decision making. I will say that Old Lehi has kept and restored an impressive amount of beautiful 19th century homes.

We should hope that a high tech giant such as this will be responsible enough to develop a greener than normal facility.
     
     
  #499  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 4:24 PM
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Continuing on with yesterday's discussion, perhaps Lehi will enter the top five in population sooner than we think. This will certainly cement the planned major projects around the I-15/90 junction sooner than later.
Instead of growing it's population, perhaps Lehi can grow food in permaculture gardens along the Jordan River, or somewhere nearby. Seems like covering this fertile land with single family homes is a bad idea.
     
     
  #500  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2009, 5:01 PM
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Great, now SLC is a primary location for getting bombed
     
     
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