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  #321  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2009, 8:45 PM
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No it would have to be much higher than the Cambie if it was built to the west of Cambie.

The Cambie St bridge is really low because there are no marinas to the east of it. If you were to build a ped bridge by Granville or Burrard it would have to be just as high as the existing bridges. It's probably the biggest detriment to building on, as I would assume it would have already been done if not for the height limits.
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  #322  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2009, 9:39 PM
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i didn't pay attention where they want this bridge

but i think they should build a glass one just west of the burrard bridge - at the same height and right next to it so you can see through the glass to the old bridge
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  #323  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2009, 10:51 PM
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What about a walkway that goes under the creek?
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  #324  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2009, 10:52 PM
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they can just take the subway
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  #325  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2009, 11:14 PM
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What about a walkway that goes under the creek?
ie the Maas Tunnel in Rotterdam.

however, here i'm sure it would stink like piss after the first night.
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  #326  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 12:43 AM
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ie the Maas Tunnel in Rotterdam.

however, here i'm sure it would stink like piss after the first night.
make it open enough and hire a security guard aswell as a cleaner and I'm sure you could avoid the problem. 100-200 meters of tunnel shouln't be that hard to manage.

Now, if it was more than just a tunnel, and one treated it like an underground mall or underground extension of granville market, would it not have a similar clenliness to the buisnesses already in the area?
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  #327  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 2:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
No it would have to be much higher than the Cambie if it was built to the west of Cambie.

The Cambie St bridge is really low because there are no marinas to the east of it. If you were to build a ped bridge by Granville or Burrard it would have to be just as high as the existing bridges. It's probably the biggest detriment to building on, as I would assume it would have already been done if not for the height limits.
No, it would have to be high enough to let most boats through and then some kind of drawbridge feature for the occasional watercraft.

The Burrard St. Bridge was designed to have rail underneath.
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  #328  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 3:07 AM
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How about Falsecreek becomes sailboat free east of Burrard, all sailboats get moored west of Burrard or in Coal Harbour, only lower powered boats allowed past the bridge, I beleive most of Lafarges deliveries are done via barge so they only need clearance for tugs. Of course this is too simple so there must be a reason why it isn't done. The houseboats?
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  #329  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 5:38 AM
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I imagine the reason it's not done is that the sail boat owners would kick up a huge fuss. There are quite a lot of them, if you add up all the marinas.

Having a pedestrian/bike bridge over False Creek means one of three things:

1) Huge Bridge, with high cleances, which would basically have to parrallel Burrard in its profile
2) Draw/Swing Bridge
3) Elimination of sail boats East of the bridge

1 is expensive, 2 is unreliable for users, and 3 would be difficult to get implemented.

If 3 did happen though, I'd love to see something like this built:


source: bridgink on flickr

I think it would work very well between Vanier Park and Beach Avenue, to provide a shortcut between downtown and the west side.

Interesting fact: This bridge is a pedestrian bridge over a highway in Norway. It was based on a 1502 design by Da Vinci for Istanbul.
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  #330  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 7:03 AM
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A great thing about a False Creek pedestrian/bike bridge is that it would help solve the Burrard Street cycling RoW problems.
Likely not. It would be difficult to site a new bridge so it could serve the majority of current trips over Burrard. A new bridge would be great in that it would likely generate a large number of new cycling and walking trips. Cities like London are reallocating lanes on bridges for cyclists, pedestrians and traffic while building new pedestrian bridges.
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  #331  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 7:30 AM
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Aside from sailboats, this would be another consideration:


my pic
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  #332  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 11:51 AM
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I thought that False Creek is to be all non-motorized boats as part of the Millennium Water/CoV requirements. Once the games start I don't think we will see huge motorized boats east of the Cambie St. Bridge...maybe aqua bus, but even they will be bending the rules
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  #333  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 5:24 PM
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The newspaper articles said that the boat cruise ships would each be escorted past the Cambie Bridge to their docks during 2010.

As far as I know there are no plans to decommission the marina at the Plaza of Nations that the boat cruises operate out of.
In addition, during both summer and winter (carol ships), boat cruises based in Coal Harbour also sail over to False Creek and back again.

Maybe you are thinking of the SEFC Community Centre which will have a paddling centre.
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  #334  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 7:39 PM
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remember when that sailboat got stuck under cambie bridge cause the tide was high at the time?

that was funny to see
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  #335  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 10:21 PM
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My thoughts on the bridge are we should start a thread if there is more discussion.

As for Waterfront station transportation hub, I think the draft proposal is really uninspiring.

I like the idea of continuing the roof-top garden idea with provisions for walkways this time. I would have glass for the views for the north,west and east aspects. The roof-top would be either a step down approach or curving (like convention center). Walk-ways from Granville and near Steam works start access onto the roof.

I will try and diagram on manifold....
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  #336  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2009, 1:08 AM
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Figure 17 of the Draft plan suggests private vehicle use of the Hub connection road. I don't agree with this and think the central road should be limited to transit options (including bus and street car), possibly taxi's, and of course pedestrian/bycycle traffic.

Under section 5.1:
Quote:
View Protection Guidelines (1989, amended 1990)
Building heights within the Framework area are limited by five Council-adopted View Cones which preserve views of the
North Shore mountains from areas south of the downtown peninsula (see Figure 27). The most restrictive of these View
Cones (from Queen Elizabeth Park) limits building heights over the whole Framework area to 124m above base elevation
3.5m (rail track level).
Considering just how useless that viewcone is, I think that for this purpose it should be changed or eliminated, seeing as how other viewcones could allow for up to 137 meter building heights.

Personally I'm hoping that the tallest building could be a large landmark building that leaves a big city feel and impression the same way Shaw and now Fairmont have. Hopefully with similar mass as these buildings but at 150-175 (or even 200 if possible) meters, with the second tallest/largest building being 125-150 meters, and the remainder under 100 meters, of course the heights stepping down towards the waterfront and gastown.

From 9.1.1.1; Impacts on Capacity of CPR Rail Yard:
Quote:
The requirements for building over the rail yard are addressed in an agreement initiated in 1985 between CPR and
Marathon Developments which established a statutory right-of-way for rail operations within the yard. This is referred
to as the “Front Yard Agreement” and the rights and responsibilities contained within it have been transferred to the
current owner, the Vancouver Whitecaps. In summary, the Front Yard Agreement allows for development to occur over
the rail yard (at least 7.2m above the top of the rails) including the necessary foundations and columns placed within the
yard, provided that there is no loss in the quality of the rail facility. This implies that any rail capacity that is lost due to
column placement or other disruption caused by the development would need to be replaced.

The structural feasibility study included a preliminary investigation of the impacts on the rail yard likely to result from the
development anticipated in this framework document, using the Illustrative Concept Plan as a basis for the analysis. It
was initially thought that some portions of the rail tracks would be able to pass below the development sites, however on
further exploration it was determined that the required structural components for earthquake resistance would preclude
the ability to maintain rail lines under the buildings. The study concluded that there would be a loss of up to one third of
the existing rail track length
within the yard to accommodate the development in the Illustrative Concept Plan.
It may be possible to offset some of this loss through the provision of additional tracks to the north of the yard, however,
these additional tracks may be required just to address additional demand for yard capacity
resulting from the anticipated
increase in container throughput at the port terminals. Further work will need to be undertaken to examine ways to
maintain the capacity of the yard, including:
• Further analysis to explore the potential to reduce the impact of development on the rail yard e.g. through
alternative structural design and/or reduction in building footprint.
• A comprehensive study of options for offsetting capacity losses within the yard and increasing capacity at other
locations within the Burrard Inlet South Shore rail system.
Basically the way the supports for any overhead structure would be designed would reduce rail capacity, which can't be offset by northward expansion of the rail yard because that would already be needed for anticipated future growth of the area.

My question is, would it be possible to build another railyard under the current one, with a massive superstructure that would support the upper rail yard deck AND overhead structures?
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  #337  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2009, 1:33 AM
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You could but it would be extremely expensive as it would end up under sealevel, and the support colums needed to hold up double decked loaded trains and the highrises would need to be monstrous. Possibly negating the whole thing as you might not end up with much net gain, especially once you include the exhaust system that would be needed for the underground level.
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  #338  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2009, 1:46 AM
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You could but it would be extremely expensive as it would end up under sealevel, and the support colums needed to hold up double decked loaded trains and the highrises would need to be monstrous. Possibly negating the whole thing as you might not end up with much net gain, especially once you include the exhaust system that would be needed for the underground level.

What I was imagining was that the actual ground level would be dug down 7-8 meters (or however much space a train needs), and it would be a bridge-like superstructure holding the second level of tracks above. If the support beams were frequent enough between any two given lines of track, they wouldn't have to be very large at all (based on personal observation of rail-bridges). Only under the towers would any support columns have to be substantiall bigger, and likely would have been a similar size anyways given that even a 10 storey building weighs far more than a train. Sacrificing 1/3rd of the lines in the railyard to support columns for a total of 2/3rds the original rail area on the upper and lower levels each is an overall expansion of capacity of the railyard, without having to build anymore tracks to the north.

And with an open-air bridge like superstructure, would the railyard need any more ventilation than what would already be required for a single level railyard?
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  #339  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2009, 8:23 PM
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Was cruising through the diagrams, and stumbled upon the old Portside Marriot Hotel proposal: Link

Quick google search took me to emporis, from where I gathered by the diagram that the old site for the building was to be over the current location for the Transportation Hub... except part of a new cruise ship terminal.

Based on the diagram of the thing, and the emporis picture, I think it would have been a good looking building, compared to it's younger offshoots at the head of Canada Place.

If a 164 meter building was considered in the past for this site, is there any chance of one at the same height being considered currently or is there any chance at al of the same design being used?



Image from Emporis.
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  #340  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2009, 8:30 PM
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Quote:
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If a 164 meter building was considered in the past for this site, is there any chance of one at the same height being considered currently or is there any chance at al of the same design being used?



Image from Emporis.
That rendering shows how useless the observation deck on Harbour Centre would be if tall buildings are built there.

Not that I mind.
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