AUSTIN | Projects & Construction II - Page 269

priller · #**5361** Posted **Jun 7, 2009, 5:53 PM**

Knowledgeable quote from another thread on this subject:

Quote:

The cost difference between steel frame and RC frame is, on average, small. However, regional differences in labour & material often favour one system over the other.

Cost aside, we generally see faster construction times in steel frames. While the steel frame may rise quickly on site, what is not generally known, is that the procurement, fabrication, and delivery of steel may require 6 to 10 months of lead time. Concrete structures can go up without that excessive lead time and essentially start work on "day 1".

Design wise, steel is definitely lighter (not always a good thing) and more flexible. To help counter this inherent flexibilty, designers often couple the frame with concrete or masonry infill panels and/or "cores". Usually this works out well because most codes require some fire separation at the stairwell(s) and block or solid concrete does the job nicely.

Concrete frames really shine in super-slender structures because they can produce a very stiff system even within a small profile. Carnegie Hall Tower is such an example where the tower is 50' wide in the upper portion. Designers rejected a steel frame only because they could not get it to develop sufficient lateral stiffness. The extra mass of concrete structures also produces better damping, meaning that it adsorbs energy quicker and produces better (generally speaking) dynamic performance. This is advantageous when controlling any movements - whether seismic or wind induced.

One should also recognise the newer composite systems (RC is itself a composite system) whereby conventional structural steel sections are either filled or encased with concrete. The overall performance of these types of frames are generally better than either of the constituent parts could offer individually. To take full advantage of these new hybrids we also ofter use "high performance" steels, concretes, polymers, composites, etc.

priller · #**5362** Posted **Jun 7, 2009, 5:57 PM**

Re the above, I understand that many people who work in steel high rises in Manhattan have to get used to the swaying motion. I imagine that can be quite disconcerting at first.

For residential buildings, concrete is definitely the way to go -- stiffer and better sound dampening.

AustinSkyscrapers · #**5363** Posted **Jun 7, 2009, 5:58 PM**

Is the Austonian done with the 48th floor yet?

migol24 · #**5364** Posted **Jun 7, 2009, 6:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoOgE

Do we know if the city managed to sell the land for the water treatment project? Or did it ever get that far?

I know that nothing of that scale is going to be built in this economy.. just curious how far along it got before everything went to hell.

what do you mean went to hell? why so negative?

i thought the trammel crowe were already chosen to build their project there. i haven't heard any news of the project being aborted. neither have i heard any news on the 21c being aborted.

nothing's gone to hell. at least i haven't heard any news of it. the economy isn't even as bad as people put it.. for one thing austin is always coming out in the top 5 cities on forbes and other places as the best cities during these "economic turmoils".

heck, i work as a barista and making nearly $2,000 a month... tell me we're in an economic crisis.

StoOgE · #**5365** Posted **Jun 7, 2009, 10:29 PM**

Umm.. the lending market went to hell. The LIBOR rate shot through the stratosphere and has just now come down to reasonable levels. Several large REITs went illiquid.

We are starting to see daylight, but the world of finance certainly went to hell.

I don't doubt that the water treatment plant will be built at some point in the future, but unless Trammel Crowe is planning on self financing the entire thing the loans they can get today will be overpriced versus what they can get in a few years, and construction of a 4-5 block area is going to take a very long time.

Not to compare it to that mess out in Vegas, but city center Vegas is the sort of thing you don't want to be trying to get construction loans for in this economy... it almost sunk MGM completely simply because they couldn't get a bridge loan.

KevinFromTexas · #**5366** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 9:16 AM**

I found The Austonian's Flickr page.

From the 37th floor.

From TheAustonian on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theaustonian/3576902444/sizes/l/

From TheAustonian on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theaustonian/3576902374/sizes/l/

From TheAustonian on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theaustonian/3576902010/sizes/l/

From TheAustonian on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theaustonian/3576097771/sizes/l/

M1EK · #**5367** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 2:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by migol24

what do you mean went to hell? why so negative?

i thought the trammel crowe were already chosen to build their project there. i haven't heard any news of the project being aborted. neither have i heard any news on the 21c being aborted.

nothing's gone to hell. at least i haven't heard any news of it. the economy isn't even as bad as people put it.. for one thing austin is always coming out in the top 5 cities on forbes and other places as the best cities during these "economic turmoils".

heck, i work as a barista and making nearly $2,000 a month... tell me we're in an economic crisis.

Have you missed the stories about the commercial developments going bankrupt because they couldn't refinance their bridge loans?

Myomi · #**5368** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 3:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by migol24

what do you mean went to hell? why so negative?

i thought the trammel crowe were already chosen to build their project there. i haven't heard any news of the project being aborted. neither have i heard any news on the 21c being aborted.

nothing's gone to hell. at least i haven't heard any news of it. the economy isn't even as bad as people put it.. for one thing austin is always coming out in the top 5 cities on forbes and other places as the best cities during these "economic turmoils".

heck, i work as a barista and making nearly $2,000 a month... tell me we're in an economic crisis.

Where do you work as a Barista? That might give us a little insight as to how you can say the economy "isn't so bad" when we are nearing double digit unemployment (which doesn't even take into account underemployment). We aren't having another great depression, and those of us who live in Texas are tremendously lucky for being able to ride this recession out in a place that is being affected far less than other places in the country. But to say that "its not so bad" is at best ignorant of the situation and at worse insensitive to the hardships people around the nation and the world are going through right now. I could say a lot more now to "tell you we're in an economic crisis", but I think its pretty clear what I am trying to say here. But if it's not, let me put this into perspective. Last month, this economy lost 345,000 jobs. That's 345,000 families affected. And that was good. People were excited it wasn't as bad as they expected. And I know, unemployment is a lagging indicator, right? Well it is also the indicator that affects the most people and the most people truly care about. And it will be the indicator that tells us when the economy gets back to being not "as bad as people put it."

priller · #**5369** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 4:27 PM**

Kewl! Austonian on flickr!

priller · #**5370** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 5:17 PM**

RE: Economy

We are very fortunate to live here in Austin where the effects of the recession are only barely felt. But country-wide, and worldwide, the economy is on track to match, or worse than, the Great Depression.

Here is a series of charts comparing some worldwide economic indicators to the Great Depression:

Charts from http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/3421

You can see from the recent green plot points that things improved a little in the last 2 months. But I think most economists see that as just a bump on the downward path, and not really indicative of recovery. This recession will last for years (which makes it a depression, of course) .

Again, we're very fortunate here in Austin. And I think development will continue here, as this is one of the few places in the US where investors will actually risk their money. Having said that, we shouldn't turn a blind eye to what's going on everywhere else.

AustinSkyscrapers · #**5371** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 5:47 PM**

How did we get into economy frenzy in a construction thread smack in the middle of 21C, the Austonian, and the water treatment project?

Revive the construction talk!

zx14 · #**5372** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 11:22 PM**

I would expect the Austonian to be starting floor 49 today. I should post some pics i took off the observation deck of Carew Tower in Cincy. the deck is on floor 49 and is the exact same height at that floor as the Austonian is.

KevinFromTexas · #**5373** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 11:32 PM**

^They still aren't finished with the 48th floor though. There's at least two sets of columns that haven't started yet on the south side of the building. Basically, they're about 75% done with the 48th floor.

zx14 · #**5374** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 11:32 PM**

anyone know how to put a immage on this web sight.

KevinFromTexas · #**5375** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 11:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zx14

anyone know how to put a immage on this web sight.

See this link:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=4207936#post4207936

Let me know if you need any further help.

AustinSkyscrapers · #**5376** Posted **Jun 9, 2009, 12:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

^They still aren't finished with the 48th floor though. There's at least two sets of columns that haven't started yet on the south side of the building. Basically, they're about 75% done with the 48th floor.

I think that they didn't start the 49th floor yet, but I think that they have set up the platforms on that floor. I remember the Austonian's 47th floor was completed after platforms were set on floor 48 according to priller. Well, that's my opinion. I only go to downtown maybe once per month, so I can't be sure. So that is my prediction/suggestion of what is going on up on floor 48/49? of the Austonian. Comments anybody?

KevinFromTexas · #**5377** Posted **Jun 9, 2009, 3:22 AM**

Had to post these. Really great shots. Check out arbeiter's photos from West Lake Hills.

Austin's suburbia: ersatz Tuscany
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=170186

The Austin 'thing'
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=170083

zx14 · #**5378** Posted **Jun 9, 2009, 4:26 AM**

great pics. you can tell frosty is shorter now! Also the lake is so low. Paleface would not be a good idea right now. heck it scared me at 680 jumping. it split my swim trunks on impact.

priller · #**5379** Posted **Jun 9, 2009, 1:19 PM**

Photos from the W yesterday, showing metal-work going in for the ACL venue.

I noticed all these angled pieces when I drove by yesterday morning. I didn't know what it was for at the time, but when I went back to look at it after work it's obvious they're for seating.

There appears to be a lower seating area (concrete) and a larger upper seating area formed by the metal beams.

Still working on the 4th floor on the tower section:

The did start moving the platforms up to floor 49 yesterday at the Austonian:

AustinSkyscrapers · #**5380** Posted **Jun 9, 2009, 3:53 PM**

It does seem that W Austin Hotel and Residences is getting a lot done recently. I could tell those slanted bars were for seating because that's where the home for ACL is going to be! While for the Austonian, it has just 2 more floors to go until it gets the cake for the tallest building in Austin. Your caption of that means I was correct that they set platforms on floor 49 yesterday!

And Kevin, thanks for providing us the links to arbeiter's photos. I love the tour!