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  #441  
Old Posted May 24, 2009, 6:27 PM
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WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE IN WINNIPEG GAVE $10 TO BE AN NHL OWNER?

Joe O'Connor, National Post

Published: Saturday, May 23, 2009

Ian Hudson remembers. He is 41 years old and grew up in Winnipeg, so of course he remembers. Now an economics professor at the University of Manitoba, he went to plenty of Winnipeg Jets games. Thomas Steen was his favourite player. He had almost forgotten -- well, he did, for the briefest of moments -- but there is a Steen sweater in his basement.

Hudson is not alone.

There are Jets souvenirs hiding in basements all across the city, and memories that are lying deeper still. Those dusty, bittersweet recollections of the franchise that flew away to Phoenix to become the Coyotes -- the team currently at the heart of the pistols-at-20-paces legal duel involving the National Hockey League, Jerry Moyes and, by extension, Jim Balsillie --are much more valuable than the trinkets to Winnipeggers.

The far-away fight for a franchise Winnipeg lost to the desert 13 years ago seemed pretty distant at first. But a court filing in Arizona, consisting of an e-mail sent by NHL commissioner Gary Bettman to his chief lieutenant, Bill Daly, included 13 magic words: "If this team had to move, it should first be offered to Winnipeg."

Could it possibly be true? And, if it could, how would it possibly work? There is no Winnipeg billionaire, at least not one that Prof. Hudson is aware of, standing at the corner of Portage and Main with a US$212.5-million-plus cheque in his pocket looking to pluck the Coyotes out of bankruptcy protection.

But maybe there is another way. Winnipeg is a Prairie town, and neighbours help their neighbours on the Prairies. Canadian social democracy was born in the West, where the collective matters, and if Manitobans from Flin Flon to Neepawa to Brandon to Winnipeg, population 703,900, were to pass around a hockey helmet and pool their money together, perhaps all the nickels and dimes would add up to a few hundred million and a homecoming parade for the Winnipeg Jets.

"I would throw into the giant helmet," Hudson says, without pause. "The giant helmet could work in the short term. I think you could drum up enough enthusiasm for a large number of people to make small contributions."

Community-based ownership on a substantial scale may sound quaint, like a throwback to the horse-and-buggy era of professional sports when the conquering heroes went back to the farms in Manitoba or Saskatchewan during the offseason to bale hay and earn a couple of extra bucks.

But the community model has been successful in modern times. Nowhere more so than in Green Bay, Wisc., home of the NFL's Packers. The Packers have 112,088 shareholders (the population of Green Bay is 101, 203). Each stockholder has voting rights, and every vote counts in electing the club's board of directors. Dividends are never paid out on shares, and the stock never increases in value.

North of the border, and right next door to Manitoba, are the community-owned Saskatchewan Roughriders. The CFL franchise has 6,000 shareholders.

"It is $250 for a share, so it is not a small decision for most folks," says Jim Hopson, the Roughriders' president and CEO. "But obviously, with over 6,000 shareholders, people have said, 'Yes, I want to be a shareholder. I want to be able to vote and to run for the board.' And yes, we do offer some perks. But more than that, I think it is: 'I am an owner.' There is pride in ownership. You know, people are pretty proud of the team around here."

And people in Winnipeg pine for their Jets.

Ken Morrissette, a local event planner, is already tapping into the Prairie collective with the "Winnipeg Jets Fan Challenge," a Facebook-driven campaign. Morrissette's master strategy: Create an online community of 100,000 members and have every member contribute $500 toward creating a $50-million pot, one capable of showing the NHL -- and Winnipeg's business leaders -- the little people are serious about bringing a team back.

Morrissette's Facebook page currently boasts 5,792 members, and features some lively comments, including one fan's pledge to "buy season's tickets every year if the Jets were to come back" and another's honest query: "Ummm, do u have to give $500?"

Alas, even if the group did reach its goal and win over some bigger investors and come up with a bank balance large enough to lure the Jets home, Hudson, the economics professor, says the community ownership model is rife with potential pitfalls.

"What happens if the team comes back here and is losing money hand over fist?" Hudson says. "Who is going to absorb those losses? Is it going to be absorbed by the very small owners? Well, they probably do not have the money to afford that. Is the government going to be asked to step in and try and keep them here? That is where things get problematic."

They could get worse if the Canadian dollar cratered (remember what 65 cents to the U. S. dollar felt like?) and the NHL salary cap, which kept on rising year over year before the recession, rebounded with a sustained salary-fattening run.

Amid all the hypothetical scenarios, there might be some genuine hope.

Winnipeg mayor Sam Katz is about 15 years older than Prof. Hudson. Katz's hero was Bobby Hull. Somewhere around his house there is photo of the politician at another point in his life, with Hull and Anders Hedberg and Ulf Nilsson, from the World Hockey Association era Jets. "Those three," says the mayor, "were as good a line as you are ever going to see in professional hockey."

Katz is cautiously optimistic about Winnipeg's chances of reclaiming its place among NHL cities. He remembers the Save the Jets campaign back in 1996, and how little kids were cracking into their piggy banks to chip into a cause that was doomed nonetheless. Winnipeg has been burned before, and false hope can lead to further heartbreak. Plus, says Katz, when it comes to the Coyotes he does not want to start a fight with Hamilton. He believes both cities are deserving of an NHL team.

Katz's city does not have a billionaire on hand, although the mayor believes the 703,900 citizens would be a pretty good place to start passing around the giant helmet.

"With the Green Bay Packers, these people are all shareholders. They put up money, and I am not convinced there is a better form of ownership, to be frank. It is as broad a base as you are going to get in professional sports," Katz says. "And if there is a team available for Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, I would be happy to lead the charge and see if there is a group of people, or thousands of people, who are interested."

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  #442  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2009, 9:08 PM
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Somewhat related...

Sat in the upper deck for Saturday's Moose game. Felt like a second-class citizen, which is who that upper deck was clearly designed for.

Not nearly enough concessions. Only two places serving beer, with the most minimal amount of workers at each location (one of the spots also sold gourmet nachos, which didn't help matters).

OTL & I vented about the shortcomings of the upper deck for at least fifteen minutes while waiting in line for a beer. We were in line that long, and it wasn't even during intermission.

The concourse... way too narrow.

The employees... too fat and old to be effective. I couldn't even find one perky & energetic sweetheart-next-door-type to escort me to my seat (not that I need the assistance, mind you...).

The one washroom... don't even bother. If you need to relieve yourself and don't want to wait for 15 or so minutes in line, you've got no choice but to piss on the church located on Donald & Graham.

If Winnipeg does get an NHL team, they'll have to somehow add more concessions and washrooms up there. To me, it seemed like they (for whatever reason) don't want to come anywhere close to meeting demand for beer and concessions.

Now that I've been to all aspects of the place, I can state that the whole damn MTS Centre was built on-the-cheap.

I'll tell you this... if the CMHR has any sense, whatsoever, they'll plan it so there won't be insane line-ups at the CMHR Beer & Nachos Stand. (but that request would probably bring the total up by another $50-M )

Last edited by DowntownWpg; Jun 1, 2009 at 9:42 PM.
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  #443  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2009, 10:01 PM
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^ Or build a proper 18000 seat arena on the CHRM site, convert the MTS centre to a water park and use the downtown post office building for the CHRM!
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  #444  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2009, 11:38 PM
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OMG...seriously. The MTS centre is one of the nicest facilities that there is. I swear, people just can't do anything but complain in this city.
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  #445  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 1:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownWpg View Post
Somewhat related...

Sat in the upper deck for Saturday's Moose game. Felt like a second-class citizen, which is who that upper deck was clearly designed for.

Not nearly enough concessions. Only two places serving beer, with the most minimal amount of workers at each location (one of the spots also sold gourmet nachos, which didn't help matters).

OTL & I vented about the shortcomings of the upper deck for at least fifteen minutes while waiting in line for a beer. We were in line that long, and it wasn't even during intermission.

The concourse... way too narrow.

The employees... too fat and old to be effective. I couldn't even find one perky & energetic sweetheart-next-door-type to escort me to my seat (not that I need the assistance, mind you...).

The one washroom... don't even bother. If you need to relieve yourself and don't want to wait for 15 or so minutes in line, you've got no choice but to piss on the church located on Donald & Graham.

If Winnipeg does get an NHL team, they'll have to somehow add more concessions and washrooms up there. To me, it seemed like they (for whatever reason) don't want to come anywhere close to meeting demand for beer and concessions.

Now that I've been to all aspects of the place, I can state that the whole damn MTS Centre was built on-the-cheap.

I'll tell you this... if the CMHR has any sense, whatsoever, they'll plan it so there won't be insane line-ups at the CMHR Beer & Nachos Stand. (but that request would probably bring the total up by another $50-M )
Well said..

Sitting in the cramped confines of the second deck will definitely change your perspective on the NHL worthiness of our arena.

I know it sure changed mine.

Believe it or night at one point in the evening I was in line with 20 other guys chanting 'BRING BACK THE TROUGH!'

All joking aside, the facility is completely inadequate for a professional hockey game.

The staff clearly didn't know what to do, and the number of concessions on the second deck could be counted on three fingers.

After waiting in line for 20 minutes, there was not enough beer in the fridge and the $7 hot dog I ordered was cold to boot.

My own feelings are that it was irresponsible on the part of True North Entertainment to sell 15,000 seats when they clearly weren't willing to service 15,000 patrons.

Well, hopefully in 50 years when we build our next arena we will get it right.

Unfortunately, by that time I'll probably be more interested in carpet bowling and playing crib.
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  #446  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 1:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
^ Or build a proper 18000 seat arena on the CHRM site, convert the MTS centre to a water park and use the downtown post office building for the CHRM!
What is CHRM? Is that a new radio station? ....... Never mind. Google is your friend. It is a French radio station in Matane, Québec - http://www.chrmfm.com/
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  #447  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 2:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
Well said..

Sitting in the cramped confines of the second deck will definitely change your perspective on the NHL worthiness of our arena.

I know it sure changed mine.

Believe it or night at one point in the evening I was in line with 20 other guys chanting 'BRING BACK THE TROUGH!'

All joking aside, the facility is completely inadequate for a professional hockey game.

The staff clearly didn't know what to do, and the number of concessions on the second deck could be counted on three fingers.

After waiting in line for 20 minutes, there was not enough beer in the fridge and the $7 hot dog I ordered was cold to boot.

My own feelings are that it was irresponsible on the part of True North Entertainment to sell 15,000 seats when they clearly weren't willing to service 15,000 patrons.

Well, hopefully in 50 years when we build our next arena we will get it right.

Unfortunately, by that time I'll probably be more interested in carpet bowling and playing crib.
So... it is about he lack of concessions, employees to run them and bathrooms. not the arena itself...
They can add all of those if NHL came to town. By the way all new arenas are short bathrooms. Sad but true, I have been to many of the new big arenas for NHL games. You are always lined up for the bathroom. try going to the Saddledome or GM Place then talk about MTS Centre bathrooms...
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  #448  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 2:42 AM
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So... it is about he lack of concessions, employees to run them and bathrooms. not the arena itself...
They can add all of those if NHL came to town. By the way all new arenas are short bathrooms. Sad but true, I have been to many of the new big arenas for NHL games. You are always lined up for the bathroom. try going to the Saddledome or GM Place then talk about MTS Centre bathrooms...
15000 people, predominantly men, many of which are drinking beer, and two 20 minute bathroom breaks = lineups

I agree with Pegger, you will find lineups no matter where you go. Why double the number of stalls when they are empty 90% of the time.

Go to the can during an extended whistle. Take your uninterested girlfriend/boyfriend and get them to get your beer and nachos.

Oh and spending $250 million on a completely arena on the CMHR site makes zero sense. I am sure $50 million would be plenty to upgrade the MTS centre and add 3000 seats. The problems are just engineering problems.
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  #449  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 1:02 PM
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i heard from reliable sources that the upper deck can be changed and would if the facility was used for an NHL team. why make put in lots of washrooms and concessions when the place get barely used?
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  #450  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 3:11 PM
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OMG...seriously. The MTS centre is one of the nicest facilities that there is. I swear, people just can't do anything but complain in this city.
Really? Maybe one of the nicest facilities for minor league hockey, monster truck shows and the circus. Have you actually been to NHL arena?
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  #451  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 3:27 PM
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i went to a game in the NBA arena in phoenix a month ago and it was a lower calibre than MTS....concourse was narrower, just painted concrete everywhere....

at the bell centre the upper deck doesnt even have real seats...you kind of lean on a bar stool shaped thing.
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  #452  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 3:34 PM
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^ shhhh... everything's worse in Winnipeg, remember?
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  #453  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 3:42 PM
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^^^ I thought the same thing of the US Airways Center - where the Suns play, i was there in Nov and found it very tight. We sat in the upperdeck (talk about tight and steep) and 6 rows up from the floor - good seats but still tight. The MTS Centre isn't that much different from the big boys.
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  #454  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 3:47 PM
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^ shhhh... everything's worse in Winnipeg, remember?
That's right...I forgot...did you see how green the grass is in every other city in...the world?
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  #455  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 7:22 PM
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I've been to many, and can state emphatically that the MTS Centre is substandard. Admittedly, I know this is subjective perception and we can debate it until we're blue in the face.

IMO, if the MTS Centre could somehow talk about itself, it would say "well intentioned but inadequate."
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  #456  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 7:31 PM
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So Balsillie is in town today I hear...
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  #457  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 8:02 PM
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So Balsillie is in town today I hear...
Yeah... in essence, he's getting an award for being so damn visionary as to place a tiny keyboard onto a cell phone.
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  #458  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 8:18 PM
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I've been to many, and can state emphatically that the MTS Centre is substandard. Admittedly, I know this is subjective perception and we can debate it until we're blue in the face.

IMO, if the MTS Centre could somehow talk about itself, it would say "well intentioned but inadequate."
what is substandard about it?...can you list a few things?...

i have also been to many arenas and have never really noticed a difference, other than size.
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  #459  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 8:43 PM
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Hey DowntownWpg, are you old enough to ever set foot in the Winnipeg Arena? now that was beyond sub-standard
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  #460  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2009, 9:03 PM
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To answer your questions (Wags & Viking)...

Wags: Yes, I went to Jets games through most of the '80s, up until and including the last ever event held there (a Moose game). I knew the Old Barn very well. As for the second part of your statement, yeah, the Old Barn became substandard as she aged, but I sure did enjoy its character!

Viking: "Substandard" is all relative, and in this conversation, based on what we are comparing it to (NHL). To summarize much of what I have posted in this thread previously, IMO the Phone Booth's shortcomings are:

- size, size size! Biggest bone of contention, by far. Most notably the seating capacity for hockey. But also the leg room and seat width. Not to mention the narrow concourses. You can tell they really did their best to squeeze the 15,003 seats into an area too small. Should have built it elsewhere, where they didn't have to squeeze it all to fit like that.
Believe me, it is not just called "The Phone Booth" because MTS is the namesake.
Related, but if the NHL wants to screw Winnipeg from getting a team, they only have to raise the minimum capacity specification by about 50 seats. They could even make it as high as 16,200, meaning that the MTS Centre doesn't quality, but every current NHL arena still does. I think time will tell that building the MTS Centre to the NHL's minimum seating capacity spec will prove to be a critical mistake, making the MTS Centre substandard as a tool to bring the NHL back to Winnipeg.

- washrooms, not enough; and within, not enough urinals. I could get more descriptive, but I'll spare you of that.

- concessions, again... not enough (particularly in the upper deck).

However, perhaps there is some possibility to improve on my last two points. Again, though, my "substandard" is predominately related to various aspects of size. The most concerning being capacity. Not just hockey, so many concerts sell out there, I'm quite sure that if we did it right and had an 18,000 seat arena, we could still sell out a significant amount of concerts.

From what I understand, and you may want to correct me, an expansion to seating capacity would be either impossible or ugly at best.

I know I'm very negative with this, so let me try to list a few positives of the Phone Booth:
- good audio and concert sound. The visual displays are very nice with hockey (the wrap-around LCD banner and the LCD's on the score board).
- attached to the downtown skywalk system.
... if I think of more positives, I'll update this list.

Last edited by DowntownWpg; Jun 2, 2009 at 9:18 PM.
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