South Fraser Perimeter Road/Highway 17 Extension | Completed

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by Andlauer

Actually records show that the population in of Metro Vancouver started to balloon in the late 60's, early 70's. They've had just under 50 years to plan for the increase in population and traffic, yet they're just now starting to play catch up. Pretty sad.

Don't forget the extensive plans for a freeway network that was to be built in the City of Vancouver, circa this time (and in the 60's too). The decision was made to not build them, and opt for rapid transit. So, instead, we're way behind on the 'alternative to highways.' Now the whole region has grown so much, it needs both highway and rapid transit expansion to keep pace.

But, just imagine how congested that freeway network work be today, had it been built. Would we discussing the 12-laning of the Srathcona-Hastings freeway??? Or perhaps widening of the English bay freeway (ugh!, I'm sure glad that didn't get built).

Re: overpasses not wide enough.
Yeah, but they're 50 years old, and probably don't measure up to today's seismic standards anyway. Furthermore, some of them are to be replaced by high-speed directional ramps (cape horn).

[Metro-One]

this is why i dont know why people are against this expansion. many of the bridge structures need to be replaced anyways for they are reaching the end of their life span. not to mention the #1 must have the world's worst on ramps and off ramps, they are short, pot holed and patch-worked to death, have horrible signage and lane markings, dip up and down as the land has settled and have horribly tight corners. The perfect example of how bad they are is the West bound Willington exit. It is so rough, tight, bumpy and floods so often it very dangerous and a complete embarrassment of a developed nation.

The only good interchange in all of metro vancouver is where the 91 and the 99 meet.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The only good interchange in all of metro vancouver is where the 91 and the 99 meet.

Don't forget Hwy 1 and McGill! And although nothing special, Hwy 1 and Upper Lonsdale/Westview just because it feels very urban around there.

I think only a few of us are against the Gateway program. I don't get what Andlauer's rant is all about, preaching to the choir.

[Andlauer]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Don't forget Hwy 1 and McGill! And although nothing special, Hwy 1 and Upper Lonsdale/Westview just because it feels very urban around there.

I think only a few of us are against the Gateway program. I don't get what Andlauer's rant is all about, preaching to the choir.

My rant is addressing the people that don't think we should put the majority of our infrastructure funds into upgrading our highways and roads

Obviously we should

[mattropolis]

we should put the majority of our infrastructure funds into upgrading our highways and roads

Obviously we should

No we shouldn't. The rail, bus system in Metro Vancouver is woe-fully inadequate. We are spending too much on roadways now: Golden Ears, Highway 1, Port Mann, Pitt River Bridge, Sea-2-Sky, SFPR, etc. There has been no real improvement in transit in the south of Fraser area (Surrey, Langley, and east) ever. Only a small portion of the SkyTrain system goes into Surrey.

The Gateway plan should be scrapped as currently planned and replaced with a rapid regional rail system linking Squamish-Horseshoe Bay-Vancouver-Burnaby-New West-Surrey-Langley-Abbotstford-Chilliwack.

[Whalleyboy]

stupid idea roads are about as crappy in surrey as transit is

[racc]

Originally Posted by Andlauer

My rant is addressing the people that don't think we should put the majority of our infrastructure funds into upgrading our highways and roads

Obviously we should

Have you tried to use transit lately? Compared to transit, our roads are excellent. Congestion is really insignificant compared to many cities around the world. It is obvious that massive investment is needed in transit to create a balanced transportation system.

Secondly, road infrastructure is a very poor investment. The Highway 1 expansion will have a capacity of under 10,000 vehicles per direction per hour while SkyTrain has the capacity of 25,000 passengers per direction per hour. The Highway 1 expansion is $3.1 billion while the UBC Line is only $2.8 billion. Over 2 times the capacity for less money and the UBC Line is about the most expensive a transit project will ever get. Most others would be even a greater bargain than road expansion.

Well, once oil prices skyrocket after the recession, I guess you all will finally figure out highway expansion is the road to nowhere.

[Hong Kongese]

Originally Posted by Whalleyboy

stupid idea roads are about as crappy in surrey as transit is

[Andlauer]

Originally Posted by racc

Have you tried to use transit lately? Compared to transit, our roads are excellent. Congestion is really insignificant compared to many cities around the world. It is obvious that massive investment is needed in transit to create a balanced transportation system.

Secondly, road infrastructure is a very poor investment. The Highway 1 expansion will have a capacity of under 10,000 vehicles per direction per hour while SkyTrain has the capacity of 25,000 passengers per direction per hour. The Highway 1 expansion is $3.1 billion while the UBC Line is only $2.8 billion. Over 2 times the capacity for less money and the UBC Line is about the most expensive a transit project will ever get. Most others would be even a greater bargain than road expansion.

Well, once oil prices skyrocket after the recession, I guess you all will finally figure out highway expansion is the road to nowhere.

2.8 Billion dollars for the UBC expansion. Thats almost as much as the Gateway Project which includes 3 new bridges, many km's of lane widening, upgraded off ramps.

2.8 Billion for the UBC expansion and who does it even help?? The lack of highway and road upgrades are killing our economy and making us less competitive as a port city.

Upgrading our highways and roads will help BC prosper much more than any investment in public transit

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Andlauer

2.8 Billion dollars for the UBC expansion. Thats almost as much as the Gateway Project which includes 3 new bridges, many km's of lane widening, upgraded off ramps.

2.8 Billion for the UBC expansion and who does it even help?? The lack of highway and road upgrades are killing our economy and making us less competitive as a port city.

Upgrading our highways and roads will help BC prosper much more than any investment in public transit

That's a pretty bold statement backed up by a lot of nothing.

For starters the bridge and pre-requisite widening for the port mann twinning is 3 bil. Not 3 bridges, not the SFPR, not the NFPR, not the Golden Ears, not the United Blvd upgrades, not the Pitt River bridge.

Just the damn Port Mann and it's corridor.

Secondly who does a sky train line help? Oh, only about a 100K or so people living in kits or that would otherwise use a replacement for the 99 or would like reduced traffic on Broadway. That's about as many people as there is of age people who currently live in Langley is it not?

Now I don't see why you're so hot and bothered over this issue. The province has committed to both gateway and improved transit. Do you see some other corridors that could use $3 bil all that well?

Would you recommend perhaps a 15 lane PMB instead? Maybe a 6 lane Serpentine highway with another crossing over the fraser? A tunnel from Clark to Lonsdale? A bridge from Boundary to Hwy 91? A tunnel under New Westminster? What's on your hit list?

[Andlauer]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

That's a pretty bold statement backed up by a lot of nothing.

For starters the bridge and pre-requisite widening for the port mann twinning is 3 bil. Not 3 bridges, not the SFPR, not the NFPR, not the Golden Ears, not the United Blvd upgrades, not the Pitt River bridge.

Just the damn Port Mann and it's corridor.

Secondly who does a sky train line help? Oh, only about a 100K or so people living in kits or that would otherwise use a replacement for the 99 or would like reduced traffic on Broadway. That's about as many people as there is of age people who currently live in Langley is it not?

Now I don't see why you're so hot and bothered over this issue. The province has committed to both gateway and improved transit. Do you see some other corridors that could use $3 bil all that well?

Would you recommend perhaps a 15 lane PMB instead? Maybe a 6 lane Serpentine highway with another crossing over the fraser? A tunnel from Clark to Lonsdale? A bridge from Boundary to Hwy 91? A tunnel under New Westminster? What's on your hit list?

Twinning the Massey Tunnel

Desperately needed more than any public transit initiative

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Andlauer

Twinning the Massey Tunnel

Desperately needed more than any public transit initiative

LOL WUT?

[twoNeurons]

We could go on and on and on when it comes to roads... there will always be a road that is "the worst road in Vancouver"

Right now it's the Port Mann bridge.
Tomorrow it will be the George Massey.
Then the 2nd Narrows.
Then maybe the Queensborough
Then we'll take break from water crossings and move to Viaducts or arterial widening...

It just goes on and on...

Which is why we need a balanced approach. For every major road project, we get a major transit project. Make them part of the same transit project.

Gateway could've included a transit element or a commuter rail to the Valley solution. Instead we have a "potential rail link across the Port Mann"

I mean seriously, is there ANY bridge that wouldn't include the possibility of a future rail connection?

[go_leafs_go02]

Is there any feasibility of extending the WCE from Mission over the train bridge to Abbotsford? I know there is a rail-link present, and Mission to Abbotsford really is not that large of a distance to cover.

[Andlauer]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

We could go on and on and on when it comes to roads... there will always be a road that is "the worst road in Vancouver"

Right now it's the Port Mann bridge.
Tomorrow it will be the George Massey.
Then the 2nd Narrows.
Then maybe the Queensborough
Then we'll take break from water crossings and move to Viaducts or arterial widening...

It just goes on and on...

Which is why we need a balanced approach. For every major road project, we get a major transit project. Make them part of the same transit project.

Gateway could've included a transit element or a commuter rail to the Valley solution. Instead we have a "potential rail link across the Port Mann"

I mean seriously, is there ANY bridge that wouldn't include the possibility of a future rail connection?

Theres no need for commuter rail to the valley. They already have the westcoast express, thats more than adequate. Name me one other city in north america that has commuter rail running through low density areas and farm land.

Hopefully the canada line is the last major transit project for a long while. From here on out our roads and highways need to be addressed as top priority. Thats the way to increase growth and prosperity in the lower mainland.

Its pretty sad when several dozen main arterial roads and highways fit the criteria of "worst road"

[Kodii]

Originally Posted by Andlauer

Theres no need for commuter rail to the valley.

Wow. Anti-UBC Skytrain AND Anti-LRT? Someone is asking for massive brain —. Don't let zweisystem see what you wrote.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Is there any feasibility of extending the WCE from Mission over the train bridge to Abbotsford? I know there is a rail-link present, and Mission to Abbotsford really is not that large of a distance to cover.

I responded here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=139991&page=144

[Andlauer]

Originally Posted by Kodii

Wow. Anti-UBC Skytrain AND Anti-LRT? Someone is asking for massive brain —. Don't let zweisystem see what you wrote.

Whats worse? Being anti-LRT or anti-road/highway?

I'm not against the skytrain routes we already have in place. But adding more should be out of the question until our roads and highways have been addressed.

[LeftCoaster]

The worst thing is being hardline either way...

The answer lies in the middle.

[CrazyCommute]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

the same people who thought no one would want to go east bound on the skytrain hence why they don't have enough escalators

Yup, and the same people -- albeit 50 years ago -- who went against George Massey's original plan, design and recommendation to make the Massey Tunnel six lanes. The government at the time felt there would never be enough traffic or demand to warrant six lanes, and scaled it back to four lanes.