New York set to ban cars from Times Square

[Tom In Chicago]

When I first heard about this idea I thought, "they can't possibly be serious?!?". . . then after looking at the photos I can rest assured that this is a bad idea. . . I could be wrong, but I don't see this lasting very long. . . there are just too many reasons that this isn't a good idea. . .

[philvia]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

When I first heard about this idea I thought, "they can't possibly be serious?!?". . . then after looking at the photos I can rest assured that this is a bad idea. . . I could be wrong, but I don't see this lasting very long. . . there are just too many reasons that this isn't a good idea. . .

well list them and i'm sure someone here can tell you that those reasons have already been addressed. it is also pretty retarded to judge your opinion from those pictures, which show only the first couple hours of this being in effect and none of the changes they will make.

[Crawford]

Many people are this thread are criticizing the idea. What are your reasons for not liking the change?

Oh, and it's no temporary program. It's permanent. The "test program" BS is just to placate the typical NIMBYs.

And it's just the beginning. NYC's Transportation Commissioner Jeanette Sadik-Khan has made it very clear that her goal is for almost ALL of Broadway in Manhattan to be transformed into a continuous pedestrian corridor.

The U.S. currently has no balance between cars and pedestrians/transit. This is just one step in restoring balance.

[Derek2k32]

I was there today and so far so good. There was temp seating and performances happening in the blocked off areas, all while 7th avenue moved very smoothly. Although this could also be due to the lighter Memorial Day traffic.

[CGII]

Also the closure of Broadway to vehicular traffic streamlines the traffic light system: as in, traffic should move more smoothly now that the algorithm that deals with controlling the traffic lights has a solid grid to negotiate without the intrusion of the meandering Broadway. Traffic should move better, since the lighting patterns will be improved.

[blockski]

This is a great idea.

Pedestrian flow up and down Broadway is still there. The urban design of the street is still intact. There's more space for pedestrians, traffic movements are simplified - this is a win-win-win.

[KVNBKLYN]

I went to Times Square today and the changes are long overdue and working out just fine.

I posted photos in a thread in the transportation forum: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=165700&page=2

[ardecila]

Can we merge this thread with the other one in the Transportation forum? The two different discussions is misleading.

[koolkid]

Originally Posted by CGII

one thing that really drives me mad about Midtown is how goddamn long the blocks are, it forces one to navigate in a frustratingly hyper-linear manner.

What I think I'd like to see as this city grows up is a greater attempt by the city to start creating new corridors through existing blocks to start to explore the potential of those spaces; I can imagine endless possibilities for the public's use of the unbuilt space in the middle of most prewar blocks. Maybe they can start to link majour points of interest through new pedestrian corridors that creatively cut through existing buildings without removing them, think kind of like the Chelsea Market, only a network.

I've always thought the blocks in midtown/west side were too damn long. Those on the east side, however, are okay and are how I think the rest of midtown should have been developed. I like your idea of creating new corridors through existing blocks. (There are buildings that allow this through their ground level parking garages.) I always though it'd be cool to create alley ways in many of the midtown blocks, similar to those in lower manhattan and Pittsburgh. Just looking at this alley in Downtown Pittsburg really makes me dream...


flickr Presto!

Originally Posted by NYguy

I'm refering to Manhattan's cyclists from hell...

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by CGII

What I think I'd like to see as this city grows up is a greater attempt by the city to start creating new corridors through existing blocks to start to explore the potential of those spaces; I can imagine endless possibilities for the public's use of the unbuilt space in the middle of most prewar blocks. Maybe they can start to link majour points of interest through new pedestrian corridors that creatively cut through existing buildings without removing them, think kind of like the Chelsea Market, only a network.

How about some traboules? They sound almost exactly like what you're describing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traboule

[CGII]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

How about some traboules? They sound almost exactly like what you're describing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traboule

This is similar, yes, but in the United States (and Midtown Manhattan in particular) they'll have to be created more like arcades with retail if they should hope to be sucessful in drawing in foot traffic and redefining the pedestrian experience of Midtown.

Also, koolkid, there are plenty of alleys in Lower Manhattan similar to those of downtown Pittsburgh, but to create new alleys in Midtown would be disastrous, akin to Robert Moses' destruction of neighbourhoods for freeways. We'll need something really creative here.

[MonkeyRonin]

Something like this? (from Melbourne)


http://www.melbournephotos.net.au/

[CGII]

Well, for inspirations sake. But the point is, we don't know what it would look like because there hasn't been a really thorough architectural investigation of such a program yet performed, and as such, we wouldn't know what such a construction would look like to acheive such goals, but more likely than not, it would need to be a very innovative network of systems that wouldn't necessarily resemble anything yet accomplished in the real world. It's not just a matter of chopping up big blocks into smaller ones, it's a matter of reading the built environment and understanding where a certain intervention creates what kind of experience and how that affects the built environment both today and in the future. I mean, I could pull examples of effective pedestrian malls out of my ass but they couldn't even begin to explain their relevance towards completely redefining Manhattan and thus the lives of those people that live through it. It will have to take its own form in order to fulfill the unique requirements of the idea.

[koolkid]

CGII, perhaps a better idea would be for future mid block developements to incorporate passages that would be something like "indoor alleys". Inside there would be restaurants,etc. Something like this:

[CGII]

Right right, that's called an arcade and as I said above there are lots of novel concepts out there but the field needs to be explored first. I don't really think there has been any discussion about how to re-do Midtown ever that doesn't involve utopian fantasies or Robert Moses' nightmares, so it's really hard to say what would be appropriate or not, suffice to say that just listing off things that have worked is just the first of a billion steps in addressing the previously stated issues at hand.

[NYguy]

This is just absurd...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/26/arts/design/26clos.html?_r=1

Lose the Traffic. Keep That Times Square Grit.


THEN


NOW Tourists and New Yorkers alike lounged in the middle of Broadway on Monday, a day after the city opened the five-block-long Times Square pedestrian mall.


Families brought chalk and drew on the street near the army recruiting office.


Jamaal Kendall, 24, tap danced to the sounds of the Colin Huggins Show, one of the many live bands entertaining large crowds in Times Square.




By NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF
May 25, 2009

When New York City announced a plan to shut down parts of Times Square to traffic, New Yorkers’ reactions ranged from bemusement to mild hysteria.Despite reassurances from the Transportation Department that the changes would create a greener, more pedestrian-friendly city, some critics of the plan worried that it would sap the square of its chaotic energy. Others, apparently nostalgic for the seediness of the 1970s version of the square, denounced it as another step in New York’s transformation from the world’s greatest metropolis to a generic tourist trap.

Well, I’m happy to report that, a day after the stretch of Broadway between 42nd and 47th Streets was closed to cars, the soul of Times Square remains intact. The neon still sparkles. Tourists still wander around bewildered. The whiff of last night’s junk food still hangs in the air.

Nor is the new pedestrian mall a cataclysmic shift in New York’s identity. Cities as diverse as London, Copenhagen and Melbourne have managed to reduce the number of cars in the city center without losing their urban character. And part of Times Square’s value, from the days of its notoriety as a porn haven to the Walt Disney Company’s takeover of 42nd Street, has been as a kind of instant snapshot of how the city sees itself. Its next incarnation will have as much to do with broad economic and social changes that New York is undergoing as with a few planters and chairs.

But I worry about the character of the mall, with its string of disconnected plazas. While Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has said the plazas are a work in progress — he will decide in December whether to transform them into something more permanent — they feel like odd leftover spaces. Until the city commissions a plan for a more detailed design, we won’t know what they will become.

The new five-block-long mall is the largest of a series of such spaces that now stretch from the Theater District down to Herald Square and Madison Square Park. Conceived by the city’s transportation commissioner, Janette Sadik-Khan, the plan is partly inspired by the redevelopment of downtown Copenhagen, many of whose medieval streets and plazas have been closed off to cars in the past decade.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

there are just too many reasons that this isn't a good idea. . .

It's a terrible idea. The people who complain about what Times Square has become have seen nothing yet.

A little more perspective on just where this madness ensues...

.Eliane.

[Tom In Chicago]

The biggest problem I see with this is how it affects emergency vehicular traffic. . .

. . .

[10023]

Originally Posted by Zerton

I think it's a great idea as long as surrounding streets can handle the extra traffic. I always wondered why anyone would drive through times square anyway. All the cars honking does give it some of its allure though.

Times Square has allure?

But yes, it's best to avoid Times Square regardless. I sometimes tell cab drivers that they shouldn't take me through it if they want to be tipped.

Whether or not surrounding streets can handle the extra traffic isn't the logic one needs to use in New York though. You could double the number of streets and avenues and they'd fill completely with cars anyway. This probably makes it more of a pain to get downtown on 9th or 5th, though.

[urbanactivist]

So this actually happened today, correct? what do the NYC traffic reports say? Did it increase the traffic, or number of traffic incidents on surrounding streets??