Mobile Development Thread

[BlessedMobile]

Originally Posted by NitekKetin

The footprint of the Civic Center Auditorium would make a focal point for this new 'destination'. This lush Mardi Gras themed park would be the starting and endpoint for parade routes and a cultural space rivaling Cathedral and Bienville Squares. The lots north of this plaza could be developed into a mixture of hotel and higher density residential complexes with ample ground level retail and street interaction, while the areas south would be the sites of townhomes, rowhouses and, in order to match the scale of the neighborhoods south of Downtown, single family homes built to zero lot lines. The supermarket-anchored shopping center would probably be oriented towards Canal Street. Oh, how I love my somewhat infeasible developments!

NitekKetin....I thing you have seen the plans! What you see and believe is very feasible. I think that Spanish Plaza would become another better used parks than it is now as it will be in the buffer between Government St. and the developments on the Civic Center property.

[nimsjus]

Originally Posted by BlessedMobile

NitekKetin....I thing you have seen the plans! What you see and believe is very feasible. I think that Spanish Plaza would become another better used parks than it is now as it will be in the buffer between Government St. and the developments on the Civic Center property.

Yeah I think you are dead on for what to expect for the civic center spot. Pie in the sky would be new malls/department store/whole foods, aquariums, amusement parks, etc. Those are the kinds of things that just are not going to be in the works for this site no matter how much some of us might want them. I think townhomes, mixed use, a few single family homes, and maybe a midrise condo/apt will be incorporated into a probably gridded streetscape to blend with the rest of that area and downtown. I think the most important compenent will be affordable, but interesting rental property (apts,townhomes, etc) Alot of the people who would consider living downtown (young professionals/college students) cannot afford to buy. That is why my wife and I didnot live down there. We were renting and it was very difficult to find some of these small individual rental units. It is a lot easier for renters to just find a big complex in west Mobile and sign up.

[CottonCity251]

Originally Posted by nimsjus

Yeah I think you are dead on for what to expect for the civic center spot. Pie in the sky would be new malls/department store/whole foods, aquariums, amusement parks, etc. Those are the kinds of things that just are not going to be in the works for this site no matter how much some of us might want them. I think townhomes, mixed use, a few single family homes, and maybe a midrise condo/apt will be incorporated into a probably gridded streetscape to blend with the rest of that area and downtown. I think the most important compenent will be affordable, but interesting rental property (apts,townhomes, etc) Alot of the people who would consider living downtown (young professionals/college students) cannot afford to buy. That is why my wife and I didnot live down there. We were renting and it was very difficult to find some of these small individual rental units. It is a lot easier for renters to just find a big complex in west Mobile and sign up.

I don't know nimsjus, Sam Jones favors and visions the Civic Center lot as something like Atlantic Station in Atlanta. He also visions a riverside arena...I think that is why they give alternate options for the Civic Center and northern waterfront in the New Plan for Old Mobile. I like it!

[nimsjus]

Originally Posted by CottonCity251

I don't know nimsjus, Sam Jones favors and visions the Civic Center lot as something like Atlantic Station in Atlanta. He also visions a riverside arena...I think that is why they give alternate options for the Civic Center and northern waterfront in the New Plan for Old Mobile. I like it!

I would love it if some of those bigger things happened. I think at the very least we are going to get the things Nitekittin mentioned.

Here are a couple of things from the press register...
From the realestate column by Kathy Jumper- "Alion Science and Tech nology Corp. has leased 8,000 square feet on the ninth floor of the Riverview Office Plaza on Royal Street downtown, according to Ga vin Bender Jr. of Bender Real Estate Group , who represented the owners. Pete Riehm of Grubb & Ellis/Peebles & Cameron worked for the tenant"
Good to see RSA has not sucked up all the other tennants like some people suggested might happen. The other downtown office buildings are holding their own or are being sold to people who want to update them and lots of smaller buildings are being rennovated too.
Also there is an article on the racetrack. It is mostly just more hot air from the developers about how they will get their funding by summer. I will believe it when I see it with that project. I really want it to happen for Prichard but it is tough to get financing right now and I can't see how a project like this would get off the ground. Spanish Fort TownCentre (basspro) just opened in a pretty affluent area and is still 90% empty so I doubt anyone is going to jump to finance a race track with alot of retail attached to it in a relatively poor area (Prichard,Saraland, Satsuma).
http://www.al.com/business/press-register/insider.ssf?/base/business/124315662954100.xml&coll=3

[NitekKetin]

^I think the major problem with Spanish Fort Town Center is that most national retailers interested in having an Eastern Shore location would probably go to Eastern Shore Centre instead.

Still, Spanish Fort Town Center should have just never happened.

[nimsjus]

Originally Posted by NitekKetin

^I think the major problem with Spanish Fort Town Center is that most national retailers interested in having an Eastern Shore location would probably go to Eastern Shore Centre instead.

Still, Spanish Fort Town Center should have just never happened.

Agreed! If Bass Pro would have been located at ESC or at our existing malls (Springdale/BelAir) it would have turned any of those retail centers into a big time shopping center. ESC has struggled to stay full leased because there really is not the population base over there to support all of that. Bel Air actually has a much better occupancy rate. Either way Bass Pro should have been built with one of those other centers.

[BlessedMobile]

Originally Posted by nimsjus

Agreed! If Bass Pro would have been located at ESC or at our existing malls (Springdale/BelAir) it would have turned any of those retail centers into a big time shopping center. ESC has struggled to stay full leased because there really is not the population base over there to support all of that. Bel Air actually has a much better occupancy rate. Either way Bass Pro should have been built with one of those other centers.

My developer friends think the Bass Pro will suffer a slow death in Spanish Fort. The Town Centre will be no better than it is now. I could never understand how the developer convinced Bass Pro that they would get tourist, travelers and Mobilians to shop there consistently...it just has not happened. Yes, the parking lot is often full...but with lookers.
I do know that the failing Colonial Bank who owns BelAir Mall will likely sell it to someone who will convert the mall to something more like the ESC. You can keep the big anchors, tear down the "mall" aspect of the place
and build back something more like a lifestyle strip center with better parking and better shops.

[Port_of_Bama]

Bass Pro should have been in Tillmans Corner where it was first proposed. The ESC should have been the WSC and the perfect area would have been across the street from Springhill Hsopital,near the Salt air development or out near Dawes. That is exactly what they get for looking over Mobile County no matter what Mobile County has the population asnd the demographics as well.

[NitekKetin]

Speaking of suburban shopping centers, I'm guessing that whole McGowin Park retail development near Hank Aaron Stadium has fizzled. Sigh, If only the nearby languishing Festival Centre could be redeveloped into a strong power center.

[Electrical Porpoise]

Originally Posted by Port_of_Bama

Bass Pro should have been in Tillmans Corner where it was first proposed. The ESC should have been the WSC and the perfect area would have been across the street from Springhill Hsopital,near the Salt air development or out near Dawes. That is exactly what they get for looking over Mobile County no matter what Mobile County has the population asnd the demographics as well.

They didnt overlook Mobile, they just didnt get much support. The developers are Mobilians and would have preferred to do it there but it was too cost inefficient.

Bass Pro and those areas will be fine.

[Port_of_Bama]

Originally Posted by NitekKetin

Speaking of suburban shopping centers, I'm guessing that whole McGowin Park retail development near Hank Aaron Stadium has fizzled. Sigh, If only the nearby languishing Festival Centre could be redeveloped into a strong power center.

I have forgotton about that, and yes the festival centre has potential.

[BlessedMobile]

Originally Posted by Electrical Porpoise

They didnt overlook Mobile, they just didnt get much support. The developers are Mobilians and would have preferred to do it there but it was too cost inefficient.

Bass Pro and those areas will be fine.

I wish the "local" developer was true. ESC was done by MGHerring Group out of Dallas and the SF Town Center was done by Cypress Equities also out of Dallas. We can let time tell their investors whether the location choice was good or not...anyone care to hazard a guess? Here's a hint...read the link from the Town Center and tell me they are anywhere near where they said it would be. Please don't tell me it is a "sign of the times" as the Spanish Fort project is at least 5 years in the making.

http://www.mgherringgroup.com/Projects/PastProjects/tabid/55/Default.aspx

http://www.baldwincountynow.com/articles/2007/12/07/local_news/doc4756cc6a7b8ad011478169.txt

[Port_of_Bama]

Bottom line blessed the ESC should`ve been planned in Mobile County instead.

[Electrical Porpoise]

Originally Posted by BlessedMobile

I wish the "local" developer was true.

The company is not local but it was originally put together by a man from Mobile.


The only good thing about Mobile's malls is it keeps people employed that have to clean up Dog River.

[NitekKetin]

Originally Posted by Port_of_Bama

Bottom line blessed the ESC should`ve been planned in Mobile County instead.

Even though Mobile County has the population base, overall we lack the affluent demographics that higher-end stores desire. On the Eastern Shore, just the opposite is true, and thus regional centers like ESC and SFTC will have quite visible vacancies.

[BlessedMobile]

Originally Posted by NitekKetin

Even though Mobile County has the population base, overall we lack the affluent demographics that higher-end stores desire. On the Eastern Shore, just the opposite is true, and thus regional centers like ESC and SFTC will have quite visible vacancies.

Maybe I don't know what constitutes "higher end" stores. Look at the list of tenants from the ESC web site and tell me who is high end that we don't have in Mobile? I have a pretty good idea that the vast percentage of national retailers in the ESC shops are in Mobile. The ESC "look" may say upscale but the list of tenants does not. I have noticed that the local upscale tenants who originally opened have mostly closed. There will have to be more than a few upscale tenants that we don't have if we are to buy the notion that Baldwin County affluence was a strong factor in locating ESC to Spanish Fort. I think the developers sold their investors on the idea that travelers, Baldwin tourist and Mobilians would be big supporters. Personally, I strongly believe that Mobile will get a major lifestyle center after the economy swings up again; hopefully, a redevelopment of BelAir or the Festival Centre.
http://www.easternshorecentre.com/directory.php

[NitekKetin]

Pottery Barn and Williams-Sonoma could be see as upscale, while Sharper Image, before it imploded, was 'foolishly overpriced'. True, everything else is standard mall fare mixed in with an assortment of empty storefronts. Still, the shopping center does make a nice diversion from the crowded stores/malls of West Mobile during the Holiday season.

I kind of want ESC to be successful because it is supposed to be *the* upscale shopping complex of the South Alabama region.

[Port_of_Bama]

I would love to see ESC successful as well it`s a nice shopping center and is in a good location as well. I strongly believe that the demeographics in Mobile as far as income goes . The Money is still and always will be in Mobile,I know that the little shopping area that is across the street from Springhill avenue has upscale stores that Baldwin doen`t have like Jos A. bank I believe.

I`m just tired of Mobile beeing overlooked ,because developers believe that Mobile residents will ride to the ES to support shopping well i`m sure es shoppers would ride to Mobile as well. When I have family and friends visiting Mobile I shouldn`t have to travel to another county to impress them with a shopping experience.

Over all before they upgrade/build more retail in west Mobile. Dowtown need to be looked at 1st.If they are building and restring the buildings downtown into 250-600 K dollar lofts then the demographics will certainly be there. I believe they can start off simple downtown fisrt such as: Footlocker,Old Navy or Gap,Buckle,and Hat shack.To see how it would do tourist are downtown and they need something to do.

[Randallg223]

I know this is a topic that's been discussed 100's of times in this forum, but now in effect's me personally. In the past year it's become nessacary for me to travel across the bay to Baldwin county several times a month. It never fails that the I-10 bayway will have a accident either near the tunnel or on the bayway itself, probably 50% of the time I make the trip. I can not believe it's taken ALDOT or the Federal DOT as long as it has to resovle the problem. Just everyday rush hour traffic is horrible, and given a holiday on top of that, forget it. And what I've notice on the day's I travel is that probably 50% -60% are out of state tags. So this is not only locals who are casing the traffic tie ups. I-10 needs to be 8 laned (4 west bound 4 east bound) from the new McDonald road interchange to Past the Hwy 59 exit in Baldwin county, and it should have been done years ago. I know as a local I can travel Cochran bridge and the causeway, but why should I be forced to drive out of my way and inconvince myself just because the people in Mobile, Montgomery and Washington D.C. have failed to do there job. It is really way to late, anyone traveling to Florida from in any state west of Alabama drives through Mobile, and having talk to many of them this traffic problem is giving them a very negitive opinion of Mobile.

[Port_of_Bama]

I agree with you but I think I-10 should be widened from the Mississippi state line to the beach exits unless thats the hwy 59 exit also.

It isnt realy that diffficult to widen I-10 baybridge, all they have to do is just simpley add/build a lane going in both directions simular to what Pensacola is doing with there bridge that crosses there bay. The only problem that wouldn`t be resolved from that would be the tunnel , but atleast it would some sort of relief once you get on the bay bridge.


Traffic shouldn`t really give any one a negitive opinion of any city because traffic is in every moderate to large size city.