ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[sevensixtwo]

Originally Posted by hokiehigh

I wish the Streets of Buckhead development would have been in Midtown. That would really kickstart the movement to become another Mag Mile. I don't see how Midtown can pull it off now since Buckhead seems like the place to be for shopping.

In the city of Chicago, you have the Mag Mile and the North/Clyborne shopping area but all other large concentrations of national chains are in the burbs.

If a development is going to be a huge let down, Im glad its not in midtown. Good planning Mr. Do-Nothing!

[UVAsuperman]

I think we should start looking at Broadway in New York as the better model for Peachtree: a heavily traveled, well known boulevard with a constant stream of retail and restaurants, many of which are local and/or unique (though with some national chains sprinkled in). The Midtown stretch is an important part of the fabric, and has a great opportunity to mold itself into a higher density portion of Peachtree, but we should be thinking Five Points to Brookhaven. The term Midtown Mile really should come to mean a mile of highrise offices and condos along Peachtree. Just my opinion, from someone living and owning on the Midtown Mile...

[Fiorenza]

Retailing in Atlanta, Chicago, NYC feels like your grandaddy caddy...no cachet, no future.


This is the 21st century. Midtown (east and west) has a future, but it ain't what you think. The west side may be closer to the future reality.

[ugagrad08]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

Retailing in Atlanta, Chicago, NYC feels like your grandaddy caddy...no cachet, no future.


This is the 21st century. Midtown (east and west) has a future, but it ain't what you think. The west side may be closer to the future reality.

If you could, Fiorenza, please elaborate on what you mean by this statement...
I'd just like to know your pov

[Fiorenza]

Isn't it obvious? I was also on Mich Ave recently, and it felt like death. When I'm in NY, I still see rich ladies shopping on 5th Avenue, but are't they a disappearing minority? Let's get real here. The internet has killed large segments of value added retailing. Even dress shops and pharmacies are taking the hit. It's actually time- and energy-efficient to not waste time and gas on such activity. It used to feel nice to see and be seen, but who needs it anymore with all the low-life who populate the shopping areas? Further, the landlords are unable to offer meaningful concessions. People want to feel they're getting a bargain, and the overhead is too high for that to happen. The new paradigm is internet/warehouse bespoke mix done out of cheap, well-secured space, the Huff Rd experience. Why do you need me to tell you this?

[UVAsuperman]

With perhaps a few limited exceptions, you can't eat out at a restaurant over the internet. With high gas prices, who wants to drive far for anything?

So, you live in a highrise on Peachtree, walking distance to restaurants and bars, have a concierge pick up all your internet purchases delivered by USPS, UPS, and FedEx, walk or take MARTA to work, shop at usuable retail like CVS, grocery stores, and a few unique boutiques, and only drive when you have to leave town or go to the warehouses on Huff Road.

Is that your vision, Fiorenza?

If so, Midtown Mile is about the only place to do it in Atlanta.

[sevensixtwo]

Ha! I thought you were talking to me.

[Fiorenza]

Midtown has value, just not as a retailing corridor. Upscale live-work-play...sure.

[GlobalNative]

Well, somewhat like people, retailers want to be seen as well. And in on a chic address at that. I highly doubt that Prada, Georgio Armani, Versace, Oscar de la Renta, Bulgari, Chanel, Dolce & Gabanna, Valentino, and host of other retailers would want their business to be confined solely in the realm of the internet. Retailers surely do like to have a presence. Now I'm not saying that presence will necessarily be in Midtown Atlanta (or anywhere in Atlanta for that matter), but to say that retailers are done with physical stores is a bold statement. Should you know the history of fashion (and I'm not saying you're ignorant if you don't -- many people don't bother themselves with these things), you would know that these fashion houses got their starts on the street. The traditional fashion house will never revert to simply an internet entity. It would not be considered haute couture or high fashion. The reason why these labels are so expensive (well half the reason -- the other half is simply because you're buying the name) is because these are custom fit garments. You can't get a custom fitting on the internet! These retailers simply wouldn't be what they are without their street presence -- it just wouldn't work!

[cybele]

I seriously doubt that I'd ever buy any of that fancy-schmantzy stuff but if I did I'd certainly want to do it over the Internet rather than being forced to go into some store where they look down their noses at you and treat you like you just fell off the turnip truck. If I'm spending my hard earned money I'm more concerned with getting good value than with some retailer making a "statement" about how fabulous he thinks his store is.

[eddie21]

I do not really know if Atlanta could sustain it, but I would love to see a theatre district emerge. It will never happen, but I would love to see it.

[BettyBowers]

Originally Posted by cybele

they look down their noses at you and treat you like you just fell off the turnip truck

Speaking of shoes that fit, I would rather try on expensive clothing, rather than click on a icon and hope for the best.

[AtlMidtowner]

Originally Posted by cybele

I seriously doubt that I'd ever buy any of that fancy-schmantzy stuff but if I did I'd certainly want to do it over the Internet rather than being forced to go into some store where they look down their noses at you and treat you like you just fell off the turnip truck. If I'm spending my hard earned money I'm more concerned with getting good value than with some retailer making a "statement" about how fabulous he thinks his store is.

Upscale retailers arent looking for customers "concerned with getting good value!" Those customers arent the target market. There are plenty of Walmarts, Target's and TJMaxx stores for those types of customers. The attitude will of course be if you cant afford it, dont enter the store, and sometimes turnip truck workers enter these stores just to look and not to buy which can be irritating to the staff.

I prefer to see and touch clothes, but my wife points out that returns are actually free, so you can try on clothes at home....so she prefers to order online. At Neiman Marcus you can order online and return in the store. You an window shop at the stores, and then buy it cheaper online without sales tax! I dont think the stores will ever go away, but Firenza is right, even the upscale retailers have move a lot of their business online.

Given the failure of almost every high rise condo building to be completed in the last year, I dont see the Midtown Mile being anything signifcantly successful in a LONG Time!!

[AtlMidtowner]

Did anyone realize the designed bottleneck on the new 14th Street Bridge. If you are coming from West Midtown east, there will be only ONE LANE on 14th Street!!! I could not believe my eyes when I saw the curb going up! 30 feet of pedestrian walkway that will never be used and only a 12 foot passage for one car at time!! Wow, talking about killing development in Midtown.

I know we all want Midtown to pedestrian friendly, but most people that live in Midtown still drive to other parts to work.

This design will be a disaster!

I hope I am seeing the curbs incorrectly!
http://www.oxblue.com/pro/open/gatech/14th
If you zoom and look to the far right you will see the curb making only one lane from Williams towards the east on 14th, but if you drive by, its obvious!!! IN the far right of the photo, you will see the new supertall power poles in the new sidewalk, then you see the one lane of traffic, and then the island in the center of the road about 15-20 feet wide. and then you see the westbound traffic of 14th, currently driving between the red road cones.

When the bridge is done, coming home, I probably now will go the 10th Street Bridge so that I will not be stuck at the 14th bottleneck, even though I live on 14th. On 10th Street, there are still 3 lanes coming into Midtown.

[scpatl4now]

Originally Posted by AtlMidtowner

Did anyone realize the designed bottleneck on the new 14th Street Bridge. If you are coming from West Midtown east, there will be only ONE LANE on 14th Street!!! I could not believe my eyes when I saw the curb going up! 30 feet of pedestrian walkway that will never be used and only a 12 foot passage for one car at time!! Wow, talking about killing development in Midtown.

I know we all want Midtown to pedestrian friendly, but most people that live in Midtown still drive to other parts to work.

This design will be a disaster!

I hope I am seeing the curbs incorrectly!
http://www.oxblue.com/pro/open/gatech/14th
If you zoom and look to the far right you will see the curb making only one lane from Williams towards the east on 14th, but if you drive by, its obvious!!! IN the far right of the photo, you will see the new supertall power poles in the new sidewalk, then you see the one lane of traffic, and then the island in the center of the road about 15-20 feet wide. and then you see the westbound traffic of 14th, currently driving between the red road cones.

When the bridge is done, coming home, I probably now will go the 10th Street Bridge so that I will not be stuck at the 14th bottleneck, even though I live on 14th. On 10th Street, there are still 3 lanes coming into Midtown.

I've been looking at that image for 5min now and have no idea what you are talking about. On the east side of the bridge its more angle of the camera that makes it look closer in. I cannot imagine that sidewalks would be wider than the actual car lanes

[cybele]

Originally Posted by AtlMidtowner

Upscale retailers arent looking for customers "concerned with getting good value!" Those customers arent the target market. There are plenty of Walmarts, Target's and TJMaxx stores for those types of customers. The attitude will of course be if you cant afford it, dont enter the store, and sometimes turnip truck workers enter these stores just to look and not to buy which can be irritating to the staff.

Well, you are probably right about that. My footwear needs are satisfied by some sneakers and a nice pair of oxfords, and I can almost always find perfectly good pants and shirts at the Wal-Mart or second hand store. But it's not necessarily because I can't afford it. I could spring for a pair of $40 blue jeans if I wanted to but I don't see the need. Who am I supposed to be impressing?

Anyway, it sounds like the Midtown Mile is not aimed at me.

[patrick84]

Originally Posted by AtlMidtowner

Did anyone realize the designed bottleneck on the new 14th Street Bridge. If you are coming from West Midtown east, there will be only ONE LANE on 14th Street!!! I could not believe my eyes when I saw the curb going up! 30 feet of pedestrian walkway that will never be used and only a 12 foot passage for one car at time!! Wow, talking about killing development in Midtown.

I know we all want Midtown to pedestrian friendly, but most people that live in Midtown still drive to other parts to work.

This design will be a disaster!

I hope I am seeing the curbs incorrectly!
http://www.oxblue.com/pro/open/gatech/14th
If you zoom and look to the far right you will see the curb making only one lane from Williams towards the east on 14th, but if you drive by, its obvious!!! IN the far right of the photo, you will see the new supertall power poles in the new sidewalk, then you see the one lane of traffic, and then the island in the center of the road about 15-20 feet wide. and then you see the westbound traffic of 14th, currently driving between the red road cones.

When the bridge is done, coming home, I probably now will go the 10th Street Bridge so that I will not be stuck at the 14th bottleneck, even though I live on 14th. On 10th Street, there are still 3 lanes coming into Midtown.

Please consult the GA DOT's schematic...

http://www.midtownalliance.org/Documents/14thSt-17thStCorridor.pdf

There will be two lanes in each direction approaching and crossing the bridge in addition to multiple left turn lanes.


This one is a little prettier and less technical:

http://www.midtownalliance.org/Images/14th%20street%20bridge.jpg

[cybele]

Cool, Patrick, thank you.

[AtlMidtowner]

Originally Posted by patrick84

Please consult the GA DOT's schematic...

http://www.midtownalliance.org/Documents/14thSt-17thStCorridor.pdf

There will be two lanes in each direction approaching and crossing the bridge in addition to multiple left turn lanes.


This one is a little prettier and less technical:

http://www.midtownalliance.org/Images/14th%20street%20bridge.jpg

Thanks.....that certainly puts me at ease.....perhaps the proportions dont seem right when I drive by the sight every single morning on my way to Marietta from 14th Street, and if you look at the
http://www.oxblue.com/pro/open/gatech/14th
and zoom in at 600% and move to the far right, you will see the first black pole and the center median. If you look carefully, the curb has been built well to the left of the black power pole. It really appears that there simply is not enough width for two lanes between the curb and the median, especially when you drive by in person, but hopefully I am mistaken!!

[rgreen2206]

2008

Rank City Population Growth Rate 1998-2008

1 New York 19,006,798 0.036
2 Los Angeles 12,872,808 0.039
3 Chicago 9,569,624 0.049
4 Dallas 6,300,006 0.18
5 Philadelphia 5,838,471 0.025
6 Houston 5,728,143 0.176
7 Miami 5,414,772 0.075
8 Atlanta 5,376,285 0.21
9 Washington 5,358,130 0.104
10 Boston 4,522,858 0.029
11 Detroit 4,425,110 -0.006
12 Phoenix 4,281,899 0.23
13 San Francisco 4,274,531 0.035


2018

Rank City Population

1 New York 19,691,042
2 Los Angeles 13,640,758
3 Chicago 10,038,535
4 Dallas 7,434,007
5 Houston 6,736,296
6 Atlanta 6,505,304
7 Philadelphia 5,984,432
8 Washington 5,915,375
9 Miami 5,820,879
10 Phoenix 5,266,735
11 Boston 4,654,020
12 Detroit 4,398,559
13 San Francisco 4,424,139

2048

Rank City Population

1 New York 21,817,674
2 Los Angeles 15,236,726
3 Chicago 11,514,199
4 Dallas 11,448,370
5 Atlanta 10,603,645
6 Houston 10,293,062
7 Philadelphia 6,433,264
8 Washington 7,760,972
9 Miami 7,130,576
10 Phoenix 8,900,782
11 Boston 5,058,919
12 Detroit 4,319,384
13 San Francisco 4,888,673


2098

Rank City Population

1 New York 25,744,855
2 Dallas 21,751,903
3 Atlanta 20,146,925
4 Houston 19,350,956
5 Phoenix 18,246,603
6 Los Angeles 17,019,422
7 Chicago 14,335,177
8 Washington 11,796,677
9 Miami 9,804,542
10 Philadelphia 7,237,422
11 Boston 5,792,462
12 San Francisco 5,744,190
13 Detroit 4,293,467