[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Empire]

Originally Posted by sdm

Yup we need this attitude.

One thing that is interesting though is mr pacey does have the rampart rules down. Again correct me if i am wrong, but didn't that cause the Midtown project to be squashed?

No, the Midtown was squashed because it was determined it was out of scale with what little heritage buildings their are around it and the fact that the scale is supposed to step down from the hill or Brunswick street. At 17fl the scale did not step down enough but it was under the sightline from inside the ramparts. The height now is 14fl. and wider on the same site so it is still a stretch under the current policies. The plan is to go forward under a new HRM b design format that has excluded this site from its height limits of approx 7fl. for this general area

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by sdm

Yup we need this attitude.

One thing that is interesting though is mr pacey does have the rampart rules down. Again correct me if i am wrong, but didn't that cause the Midtown project to be squashed?

I could be wrong, but I don't think the Midtown violated the Ramparts Bylaws. I believe the particular piece that stopped the (ugly, in my opinion... who builds a hotel tower in a location like that and leaves the side facing the ocean views windowless?) Midtown development was the interpretation of a part of the MPS that discussed the height of developments in the "vicinity" of Citadel Hill. The interpretation hinged on how many streets toward the water you had to go before you weren't in the "vicinity" of the hill anymore. I recall that the Utility and Review Board's ruling has since then been used as a measure of what vicinity means.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by sdm

Yup we need this attitude.

One thing that is interesting though is mr pacey does have the rampart rules down. Again correct me if i am wrong, but didn't that cause the Midtown project to be squashed?

There are multiple related bylaws. There are the "hard" viewplane and ramparts bylaws and the Midtown proposal was in accordance with both of them. There are other MPS regulations open to interpretation, as mentioned above, and basically the Midtown was cancelled because it was deemed "too close" to the Citadel and too out of scale with nearby buildings. There were no hard numbers involved and there was no way for the developer to know going in what exactly would be expected -- that is a huge flaw with the development process in Halifax.

[eastcoastal]

Anyway, back to THIS proposal... I have to say I'm not a huge fan, but I'm cautiously optimistic. I think the material treatment leaves a bit to be desired (but have yet to experience anything of significant size built and be treated in any manner that could be described as current in downtown Halifax). I hope that the details encourage at-grade relationships with the street, but it's too early to tell (or the renderings don't say enough about that). I feel, as other commenters have noted previously, that the cladding seems a bit dated.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

(ugly, in my opinion... who builds a hotel tower in a location like that and leaves the side facing the ocean views windowless?)

Interestingly enough, this is because the height restrictions allowed for an equally tall building at the north end of the adjacent lot. That combined area is taken up by the 14 storey tower in the convention centre development.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by someone123

Interestingly enough, this is because the height restrictions allowed for an equally tall building at the north end of the adjacent lot. That combined area is taken up by the 14 storey tower in the convention centre development.

The sad part is that you can build to the property line. When you do that you are not permitted any windows due to fire code regulations. In the case of the midtown, council was willing to accept a building with a 17fl shear concrete wall facing the mouth of the harbour with no windows. The justification that something may be built to cover it doesn't work if a 10fl building is built. To counter this the building needs to be set back approx 5ft. to allow for windows. This should be required in most cases.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

Yes and no. From my understanding it was canned because they put up to much fuss about it and the council just abandoned it eventually.

What I'd like to see if this replace the old WTCC and have room to extend the arena

i rather see a new arena and expand the WTCC into the old one.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by sdm

i rather see a new arena and expand the WTCC into the old one.

That was what I wanted right from the start...

Anyway, I have to admit when I first say the renderings of this project I was underwhelmed. The buildings themselves don't really do much for me, and that arch is just retarded. A couple of pedways crossing at each end of the street would be nice, but the arch is just bizarre...

[Empire]

I think you might have to tear down the WTC & Metro Centre and start over to get 15000+ seats on that site. The current ice runs north/south with the ends with no upper bowl on Carmichael & Duke. If the ice ran east/west and was moved to the centre on the site you might get over 15000 seats. If that happened and you were connected to the new trade centre via a link through the Prince George you would have a mega complex.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

That was what I wanted right from the start...

Anyway, I have to admit when I first say the renderings of this project I was underwhelmed. The buildings themselves don't really do much for me, and that arch is just retarded. A couple of pedways crossing at each end of the street would be nice, but the arch is just bizarre...

Just think if we could get some of the port lands back, put a arena there, renovate the existing arena and WTC to be one large trade centre. Talk about getting the best of both worlds. Then we could be innovative by meeting the cooling capacity for the new arena using sea water. Not sure if any arena in the world would uses that.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Empire

I think you might have to tear down the WTC & Metro Centre and start over to get 15000+ seats on that site. The current ice runs north/south with the ends with no upper bowl on Carmichael & Duke. If the ice ran east/west and was moved to the centre on the site you might get over 15000 seats. If that happened and you were connected to the new trade centre via a link through the Prince George you would have a mega complex.

There was a plan to re-arrange the Metro Centre so that an upper bowl was thrown out over Duke. That would add 1-3K seats, depending on final design. I would like to see a modest renovation of the metro centre, to add some seats, fix the exterior, update the interior, and make it so you can more easily back a 53' trailer into the building. Metro Centre is old enough that trailers were shorter, so it is a challenge for big bands to get their stuff inside.

I am not convinced we need a 15K seat arena. If we could get MC to 12-13K, and then also invest in Huskies Stadium so we had a multi-use stadium with say 5-10K seats and the option for 10-20K more temporary, we could stop talking about this!

Convention centre needs to happen. So do lower end hotels, maybe when they take Cogswell down we can put a Comfort Inn up there!

[hfx_chris]

*cough* new stadium at Shannon Park *cough*

[sdm]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

*cough* new stadium at Shannon Park *cough*

Would make an awesome site, however you could hear the screams from downtown retail owners/ hotel owners now.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Convention centre needs to happen. So do lower end hotels, maybe when they take Cogswell down we can put a Comfort Inn up there!

Once the number of pending hotel come online, Nova Centre, Salters Street, Queens Landing, and there is another, many of the existing hotels will be considered lower end.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by sdm

Would make an awesome site, however you could hear the screams from downtown retail owners/ hotel owners now.

Shannon Park is a good choice for that very reason... they are going to scream regardless of what happens.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

*cough* new stadium at Shannon Park *cough*

Lousy location. Cold, damp, windy, on the wrong side of the harbor from the majority of your customers, bridge tolls, likely typical screwed-up roadway access. Do something on the existing MC site (use the Forum for a year for hockey) and punch out a parking facility under Citadel Hill.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by sdm

Would make an awesome site, however you could hear the screams from downtown retail owners/ hotel owners now.

Halifax could never have room for a stadium downtown. An arena yes, but not a stadium.

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Lousy location. Cold, damp, windy, on the wrong side of the harbor from the majority of your customers, bridge tolls, likely typical screwed-up roadway access. Do something on the existing MC site (use the Forum for a year for hockey) and punch out a parking facility under Citadel Hill.

I knew that was coming. The location is good, has excellent highway connections so people would be able to get in and out quickly (with modifications of course to the Princess Margaret Blvd ramps). Definitely not the wrong side, since there really is no right or wrong side, it's what an extra 2 minute drive across the bridge, it's not like I'm suggesting building it in Musquodoboit Harbour. Bridge tolls would be an issue no matter which side it's on, they do charge tolls for people going from Dartmouth to Halifax too you know. I don't see how the wind would be an issue, and no matter where it goes around here it's going to be cold and damp on cold and damp days.
If I recall, once upon a time you were suggesting the Halifax Forum site. Yeah, now there's a great location for getting cars into and out of it quickly. I can imagine the traffic tie-ups, much worse than Market Street when an event gets out at the MC. Piss poor highway connections too.
Your problem kp is you're assuming the majority of people who visit a stadium are coming from mainland Halifax. Maybe for the Moosehead games at the MC, but if a stadium were built with a CFL team representing the province (or maritimes), you would have people coming from all over Nova Scotia (and possibly a few from NB and PEI), so a location next to the highway would be ideal, but still close enough to the city so that it could truly be called a Halifax stadium, instead of a "Robert L Stanfield Airport Stadium" or something like that.

Anyway, I apologize for taking this discussion way off track...

[Empire]

Put the stadium in Africville c/w boardwalk hotel marina etc. It would be connected to Seaview park and there could be ferry shuttles to downtown. Barrington shuttles would be very efficient if Barrington St. north is ever brought into this century as a major commuter route.

[Barrington south]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I feel, as other commenters have noted previously, that the cladding seems a bit dated.

it's not just the cladding that contributes too the 15 year old feel to the nova center...the form of the the squarish slab like towers is anything but cutting edge and you could practical drape them in titanium and still have an outdated and uninspiring set of high rises.... the form a building takes , and the quality of materials used are very important factors in aesthetically pleasing, super modern architecture but also the way in which material's are used make a large contribution , for example, the way the podium has bands of blueish glass and the silver (metal?) just reeks of the 90's to me, now bluish glass and silver colored metal when used properly can definitely be cutting edge...not in this case though....and also...like someone123 said....the section with the sign appears to be prefab.....well, it could get worse....imagine stucco...

[Wishblade]

This article is from a couple of days ago, explaining how Mr. Ramia is confident despite the coming provinical election:

Vote no worry for Ramia

DESPITE the provincial election, developer Joe Ramia says he’s confident his new convention centre proposed for downtown Halifax, in partnership with the province and city, will proceed on schedule.

The fact that the $300-

million Nova Centre Global Trade and Finance complex was announced on the same day the government was defeated in the legislature was just a coincidence, as far as Ramia is concerned.

He told me on Tuesday that he has been very careful not to be political or link the project to one party over another.

The plan for the convention centre, which includes an 18-storey hotel and 14-storey office tower, was revealed at a ceremony during which Progressive Conservative Premier Rodney MacDonald and Mayor Peter Kelly signed a memorandum of understanding to work together to come up with financing for the convention portion of the development, which could amount to as much as $200 million. But Ramia says he was sure to give NDP Leader Darrell Dexter and Liberal Leader Stephen McNeil an advance peak, and both indicated they also supported it going ahead.

Even though it is just a memorandum of understanding, Ramia is confident that governments will be able to come up with the funds to support the development.

He has a permit that would allow for demolition of the former Herald building on Argyle Street to begin almost immediately but says, as a sign of support for HRM by Design, he will wait for city council to pass the final version of its new rules for downtown development before he starts any work.

Financial consultant Deloitte has been hired by the province and city to prepare an independent cost estimate and business plan, and make an application to the federal government for funding. Ramia told me on Tuesday he expects the Deloitte report will be completed by late May or early June, and then there will be "a little bit of negotiation" to come to a reasonable financial arrangement.

Aside from the Ramia family’s involvement in the project, there are several investors with deep pockets who are participating, but Ramia declined to identify them publicly. He says the level of excitement over this development has been building in Nova Scotia and across Canada and there have been many companies calling on him to see if they could participate.

Nova Centre will provide a total of 1.2-million square feet of space — which Ramia describes as being the equivalent to building another Purdy’s Wharf I and II, plus Cogswell Tower — to be completed by 2013.

Bob Mussett, senior vice-president of CB Richard Ellis Ltd., says the construction of a new convention centre is very important for downtown Halifax.

"I think the convention centre announcement is extremely positive on all kinds of levels. From the general business downtown, there is no question that as a city we need a larger facility and that it will be well-used. And, as part of that, we will see a lot more visitors and conventions come to the city, which will require more hotel rooms and which is part of Mr. Ramia’s plan, as I see it."

Ramia says there is already a market for the space in the new centre. On the strength of the government’s commitment to proceed, he says he is in final negotiations to secure commitments to lease 75 per cent of the available space.