Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Lee_Haber8]

I recently did a design project on a rapid transit project in Montreal comparing LRT with BRT. For the project we did a cost-benefit analysis in order to choose a technology.

What I found when calculating the external benefits is that time-savings holds the greatest value, dwarfing all other pollution and noise reduction benefits. The time-savings were even greater than the fare-revenue generated! The Skytrain will be quite a bit faster and more efficient than LRT, which will translate into higher time-savings and therefore greater external benefits.

[Metro-One]

Thats what i found the funniest. All the LRT supporters are trying to convince the Broadway business association that building and at grade LRT will be less disruptive than a subway! so funny.

[djh]

When I think of trams along Broadway, I think of one stop every two blocks or so.
When I think of Skytrain along Broadway, I think of a stop at the major intersections (Main, Oak, Granville, etc.)

So perhaps clarifying to the public how the Skytrain will be used (as a backbone going between medium-to-long-distance locations; commuting; destination-to-destination) compared to how a tram might be used (for short-to-medium-distance locations, and perhaps long-distance locations) might help set the debate on the right foundations.

[CBeats]

Posted by Mr. X on SSC years ago:

Vancouver Sun, Page A01, 25-May-2006
More city residents legging it to work

By Frances Bula

More people in Vancouver walk to work than anywhere in North America except New York City.

The proportion of people commuting by bicycle has doubled in 10 years.
And the transit system, with triple the number of people using it to go to the University of B.C. since 1997 thanks to U-Pass, has become so popular that it's in danger of losing passengers because of overcrowding.

That's the latest transportation picture for Vancouver, a city that is setting the standard as North America's "greenest" city as it bucks the trend to more cars, roads and traffic that prevails elsewhere.

Vancouver has already exceeded the goals it had for 2021 when it comes to reducing car trips and promoting cycling and walking downtown, a shift that many environmentalists and planners say is vital in order to reduce pollution and create more livable cities.

"Our projection for 2021 was to be at 18 per cent for all biking and walking trips. We're now at 27 to 32 per cent, as of 2004. This does not look very ambitious any more," says Lon LaClaire, Vancouver's strategic transportation planning engineer, the co-author of a report outlining the city's progress on its transportation plan.

That's largely because of the city's hugely successful development of a residential downtown, he said. Having 72,000 people living on the downtown peninsula surrounding the central business district is a major reason for that radical increase in walking and cycling.

"There are two things that affect how people get around -- land use and structure. The bigger piece is probably the land use." The city has also doubled the number of kilometres of cycling routes in the past 10 years and worked on ways to make walking more enjoyable.

But people outside Vancouver's boundaries are also choosing not to bring their cars.

Although trips to the city have increased by 23 per cent between 1995 and 2005, vehicle traffic decreased by 10 per cent across Vancouver boundaries in the same period.

The just-released statistics in the city report come from trip diaries, surveys and 24-hour road counts done mostly in 2004.

All of that is in stark contrast to most of the United States. The U.S. Department of Transportation noted recently that "the private vehicle, especially driven alone to work, is the mode of choice. . . . In every major metro area, workers who drove alone to work increased in numbers and share in the last 40 years."

The one problem area for Vancouver is central Broadway, where drivers in cars still account for 50 per cent of all trips. That's partly because the transit connections between the city's two major office hubs -- Broadway and downtown -- are so bad. It's also because transit along Broadway is at capacity.

"We're hitting the wall," said LaClaire. "There's no more capacity in the system for them to get on."

More than 60,000 people use the Broadway buses every day and passengers are getting left at stops because buses are so crowded, even though they're running at one a minute.

LaClaire said the Broadway/Commercial transit hub is the city's biggest congestion problem, with the result that transit use has dropped off slightly in the past year because some people are giving up.

"It's a really tragic thing for us. Anywhere else, carrying that number of people would be on [light rapid transit]."

The extension of the Millennium SkyTrain line from Vancouver Community College to Granville Street had been a priority for TransLink and was originally scheduled to be done by this year. But it was bumped for the Richmond-to-downtown Canada Line and the proposed light rail line into Coquitlam, Port Moody and Port Coquitlam.

LaClaire said some of the Broadway problems will be relieved by the Canada Line, which will create a fast link from Broadway to downtown. But, LaClaire said, the extension to Granville has to be a priority.


And this was in 2006!
But the article reveals how necessary the Millennium Line extension is, and that a major increase in capacity is needed - to Skytrain, not a tram.

[metroXpress]

^ great find

[amor de cosmos]

sounds like skytrain on broadway is long overdue. what say you, lrt people?

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Originally Posted by amor de cosmos

sounds like skytrain on broadway is long overdue. what say you, lrt people?

Export jobs closer to people's homes and reduce the times of travel!

[metroXpress]

LRT construction in Norfolk, VA



A nice one in Charlotte

[mr.x]

Kits Dave Apr 30, 2009 2:52P Skytrain is the wrong system for the City of Vancouver
I believe what Mel Lehan, the coalition and community are correct in their opposition to Skytrain on the West Broadway corridor.Studies shown that Skytrain is the wrong option for the Broadway corridor. A $2.8 dollar, 12km Skytrain extention to UBC makes little sense fically or for providing transit service to the community. For the same $2.8 billion a modern 175km tram system could be implemented throught the Lower Mainland! Studies have also shown that an tram system while being slower than skytrain, has a greater carrying capacity as well as being a "greener and cleaner" alternative to Skytrain expansion. I encourage everyone to read what the alternatives are and make their own decision based on the facts and notPR representatives from the government and Translink. Here are the links to studies by UBC professor Dr. Patrick Condon. http://www.sxd.sala.ubc.ca/8_research/sxd_FRB06_tram.pdf and http://www.sxd.sala.ubc.ca/8_research/sxd_FRB07Cost_Comparisons%20Jan%209.pdf



guru Apr 29, 2009 1:46A Trams are quaint are they?
Further evidence that this author knows not of what he speaks is the this: Montreal-based Bombardier will be building 204 new streetcars for the TTC (Toronto Transit)– a contract worth $1.22 billion. Time for a writer who has an informed opinion!



guru Apr 28, 2009 8:31P Light Rail is better
Skytrain is heavy rail. It takes five times as much money to build and maintain the Skytrain than a light rail system. Skytrain tracks, once built, are ugly and massive, destroying the aesthetics of neighborhoods. The author offers opinions with no rationale to back up his claims: such as light rail shouldn't be used on heavy traffic roads. Why? His bias for heavy rail is showing when he calls the tram system "quaint". Trams are in use throughout Europe and even in Toronto for a very good reason: they work and other traffic can easily adapt to it. The Skytrain is using 18th century technology, so let's call the Skytrain quaint as well, shall we? Light rail is of human scale and fits into it's local environment in a far less intrusive manner. The author talks about our crowded system. With light rail, because it is far cheaper to build, could offer hundreds more cars and 24/7 operation which would accommodate ever increasing the ridership.



Johannes502 Apr 27, 2009 3:24P
I find it rather amusing that the columnist would conclude that a community getting together to have their voices heard in a democratic process would be a bad thing. The town hall from my understanding was about the lack of local input in the decision-making, and the worry about this being another Cambie fiasco. The greatest achievements Vancouver has accomplished in terms of planning were when the public had a hand in the decision-making. Unfortunately, the worst planning decisions have happened in this city when there was a lack of community involvement.



Marlon Anaka Apr 27, 2009 3:10P Have your voice heard
It's great that there's discussion around the issue! TransLink is currently considering several options for the Broadway – UBC corridor, whether it is Skytrain, bus or some other form of transit. They're actually looking for public input on the issue at a series of public consultations, the first of which is happening on June 1. And as more people move to the area, it become even more important to make sure our city remains livable - especially since population is estimated to increase to 3.4 million by 2040. To learn more about these public consultations, go to bepartoftheplan.ca

[Metro-One]

I hate to say it, but this is why the majority of North American cities have such poor public transit, because of misinformed dribble such as these comments. It is actually amazing that Vancouver was able to implement such a relatively terrific metro system in the first place! We really need to go more public, we have to organize a civic event and start producing flyers with all of our 22 points and our rebuttal to the LRT people's attempt to debunking our points.

Honestly, do these people even do any research, do they even understand the basics of mass transit? There are so many errors in those comments it is beyond belief.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I hate to say it, but this is why the majority of North American cities have such poor public transit, because of misinformed dribble such as these comments. It is actually amazing that Vancouver was able to implement such a relatively terrific metro system in the first place! We really need to go more public, we have to organize a civic event and start producing flyers with all of our 22 points and our rebuttal to the LRT people's attempt to debunking our points.

Honestly, do these people even do any research, do they even understand the basics of mass transit? There are so many errors in those comments it is beyond belief.

I agree with you....but:

Where do we get the money for printing flyers? Organizing a civic event? It costs quite a bit.

Personally, I think we really need our own website...or at the very least, perhaps buy a domain name for the blog and upgrade it. That's a starter.

[Metro-One]

We should try and get things more together for the summer.

Anyways, just a side note, this weekend i went downtown friday and saturday nights and i used skytrain to do so because it is fast and frequent. If we did not have skytrain and had a street level LRT running down Kingsway or some other road in its place, i would have driven both nights and almost every other time i go downtown. Why? Becuase i see no advantage (especially during non-rush hour times) to using a street grade LRT over a car.

Again, i use skytrain because it is frequent, fast, clean and reliable. Trust me, there are many transit users such as myself that will not use a street grade LRT over a car for long trips (if it is a km or 2, sure, but anything more, nope). And to those people who think that the entire world can work, play, live, go to school, etc... all within a a square kilometer or so have no idea what the real world is like. For example, what do you do if you live and work in Coquitlam, but your wife works in Richmond, and you son goes to SFU while your daughter goes to UBC and you r family income is already strapped to the point where you can not afford to house your children on campus? Not to mention special work events, family outings or special purchases that will take you to almost any corner of the Metro area, this is called the real world, and this is why all the major regions need fast frequent mass transit connecting them.

[usog]

You should probably start with a blogspot account or something, a central place to put all the arguments and rebuttals as they come up. I'm pretty sure those are free.

[metroXpress]

Perhaps you can create a free forum and get the LRT supporter to join the discussion.


I requested a discussion question on bepartoftheplan.ca and I hope they will start a discussion question soon.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by usog

You should probably start with a blogspot account or something, a central place to put all the arguments and rebuttals as they come up. I'm pretty sure those are free.

We already have.
www.ubcskytrain.wordpress.com

[metroXpress]

I got a link to free forums. They aren't bad...only a few ads =]

http://www.forumotion.com/


I have one question, where do LRT supporters post their counter points?

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Allen

Perhaps you can create a free forum and get the LRT supporter to join the discussion.


I requested a discussion question on bepartoftheplan.ca and I hope they will start a discussion question soon.

There's no discussing with the LRT supporters, especially Johnston. They're arrogant, and they would never admit they are wrong....not to mention they seem to have loss all logic and common sense.

Most of us probably wouldn't want to set up a forum, and then only have to debunk their posts every single day.

[metroXpress]

Another question:

Where do LRT supporters, like Johnston, post their arguments?

[mr.x]

http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/

PriceTags blog

Tyee

The comments section on the ubc skytrain blog too, before we shut down the comments features.

[metroXpress]

^ Thanks! I missed half of the discussion