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  #101  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 6:27 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
 
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There are currently weekday backups during rush hour southbound on Burrard Bridge because of some sewer work on Cornwall west of Cypress.
     
     
  #102  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 6:30 PM
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Stingray2004 Stingray2004 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Does anybody have stats on Burrard volume vs. Granville? The Granville bridge has many more off and on ramps/options and never seems to be backed up, in my limited experience.
Burrard St. Bridge

Persons cross per hour: 8,000 - 9,000 (peak times)

Lone drivers: 49%
Car poolers: 21%
Transit riders: 21%
Cyclists: 5%
Walkers: 4%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burrard_Street_Bridge

So we are going to have a 33% reduction in one-way traffic to accommodate the 5% of cyclists.

Another problem is that the city removed the 4th Ave. EB -> NB on-ramp to the Granville St. Bridge years ago, which further hinders the ability to move traffic from the Burrard St. Bridge to the Granville St. Bridge.

And the Burrard St. Bridge always seems to be the only False Creek crossing that receives alot of attention in late afternoon traffic reports as traffic heavily backs up heading into downtown.

I just dunno why the city doesn't reserve one sidewalk for pedestrians and the other for cyclists.
     
     
  #103  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 6:55 PM
sacrifice333 sacrifice333 is offline
 
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A dedicated bike/pedestrian bridge should be built from Beach Avenue to Vanier Park.

Very silly to restrict traffic further.

We've made the choice of not having an expressway through downtown, further restriction is not a viable option.
     
     
  #104  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacrifice333 View Post
A dedicated bike/pedestrian bridge should be built from Beach Avenue to Vanier Park.

Very silly to restrict traffic further.

We've made the choice of not having an expressway through downtown, further restriction is not a viable option.
Again, a dedicated bridge would be probably around $100 million dollars and would be very unlikely to serve as an alternative to Burrard for a lot of trips as the access points would be different. It would also take years to plan, design and fund.

Why not give the trial a chance? In world class cities around the world, including New York, London, Paris, and Portland, they are reallocating lanes of traffic on roads and bridges and in spite of the outcry from a few motorists, the traffic problems are minimal.

And, as people keep on saying, the congestion on the bridge are mainly due to the intersections on the north and south of the bridge so reallocating lanes of traffic on the bridge will have less impact on traffic than people would think.
     
     
  #105  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racc View Post

If we don't think this will be successful, we might as well just cancel the Olympics, because, compared to the street closures during the games, the Burrard Bridge will only be a minor inconvenience.

For those who think the Bridge is safe, tell that to the two people who have been seriously injured on the bridge due to the narrow sidewalks. They simply are not wide enough for the 60,000 people who walk and cycle over the bridge each week.

youre kidding me right? the olympic road closures are temporary. and if safety is a concern how about addressing the death trap called the granville street bridge and those ridiculous pedestrian crossings.

Couldnt they stick a bike lane underneath the bridge? wasnt it built originally to support a rail line?
     
     
  #106  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Burrard St. Bridge

Persons cross per hour: 8,000 - 9,000 (peak times)

Lone drivers: 49%
Car poolers: 21%
Transit riders: 21%
Cyclists: 5%
Walkers: 4%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burrard_Street_Bridge

So we are going to have a 33% reduction in one-way traffic to accommodate the 5% of cyclists.

Another problem is that the city removed the 4th Ave. EB -> NB on-ramp to the Granville St. Bridge years ago, which further hinders the ability to move traffic from the Burrard St. Bridge to the Granville St. Bridge.

And the Burrard St. Bridge always seems to be the only False Creek crossing that receives alot of attention in late afternoon traffic reports as traffic heavily backs up heading into downtown.

I just dunno why the city doesn't reserve one sidewalk for pedestrians and the other for cyclists.
The traffic on the bridge is only an issue for a couple of hours a day 5 days. Often in the mid morning, they close down a lane to replace the banners and the traffic flows smoothly. Meanwhile, the reallocation will improve the safety of people who cycle, walk and run over the bridge all day, seven days a week. With the increase in the number of people walking and cycling over the bridge during the trial, the number of people that benefit could be even greater than the number that might be slightly delayed. And what if people are delayed a bit. I thought people loved their cars and would want to spend as much time in them as possible.
     
     
  #107  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:21 PM
sacrifice333 sacrifice333 is offline
 
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It's been given a chance before and it didn't turn out well then either.

A scenic pedestrian/cyclist bridge would be a great asset. The only real challenge with this other than the funding, would be the required height to accommodate vessel passageway underneath.

Fortunately the Cambie St. Bridge is coming back online, so if enough traffic transitions back to that and some Burrard traffic back to Granville it won't be as bad as it 'could' be.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to rethink my purchase along the Golden Mile.
     
     
  #108  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:21 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
 
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The staff report on the trial has finally been posted - note that CTV got Option 2 wrong!

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20090505/documents/TT2.pdf

Note the staff bias against this option, even though all of the other bike lanes in the City are comparable to 1.5m in widh on City streets. Speed limit on Burrard Bridge is 60 km/h, only 10 km/h more than City streets. Bollards could be erected to ensure cars do not drift into the bike lane.

Quote:
• Two (2) bicycle lanes, five (5) motor vehicle lanes – One existing general purpose lane
would be converted to provide 1.5-m bicycle lanes in each direction with no separation
from motor vehicle traffic. 1.5-m bicycle lanes on the Burrard Bridge (adjacent to highspeed
traffic and high curbs) would not meet Canadian guidelines for new cycling
facilities, and may be less safe than the existing sidewalk operation. In fact, this option
may deter cyclists from using the bridge.


Quote:
Lane Configuration

The Burrard Bridge currently has three northbound and three southbound vehicle lanes, each
3.0m (10 feet) wide. Sidewalks on each side of the bridge are generally 2.6m (8½ft) wide and
are currently shared by cyclists and pedestrians.

A trial lane re-allocation could be implemented by converting one or both curb lanes to
bicycle lanes, with options for the use of the sidewalks. Three options are described below:

1. Two (2) bicycle lanes, two (2) pedestrian-only sidewalks , four (4) motor vehicle lanes
– The two existing general purpose curb lanes would be converted to bike lanes and
physically separated from motor vehicle traffic with barriers, providing 2.0-2.5m wide
northbound and southbound bike lanes on the roadway. Both sidewalks would return to
the exclusive use of pedestrians.

2. One (1) bicycle lane, one (1)shared sidewalk, one (1) pedestrian-only sidewalk, five (5)
motor vehicle lanes
– One existing general purpose curb lane would be converted to
provide space for cyclists on the roadway in the form of a single 2.0-2.5m wide lane on
the roadway. Experience suggests that a southbound conversion may have the less
impact on vehicular traffic than a northbound conversion. The sidewalk adjacent to
the new bike lane would be available for the exclusive use of pedestrians. The other
sidewalk would remain in the existing shared configuration. Such an operation would
improve safety, comfort and capacity for southbound pedestrians and cyclists, while
leaving northbound conditions unchanged for both. Pedestrian connections to the
bridge would be unaffected.

3. One (1) road-level bicycle lane, one (1) bicycle-only sidewalk (east side), one (1)
pedestrian-only sidewalk (west side), five (5) motor vehicle lanes
– One existing
general purpose curb lane would be converted to provide space for cyclists on the
roadway in the form of a single 2.0-2.5m wide lane on the roadway. Experience
suggests that a southbound conversion may have the less impact on vehicular traffic
than a northbound conversion. All pedestrians would be directed to use the west
sidewalk, which currently has almost twice the pedestrian use of the east sidewalk.
The east sidewalk would be designated for the exclusive use of northbound cyclists.
This arrangement would improve safety, comfort and capacity for all cyclists. It would
remove pedestrian/cyclist conflicts on the sidewalk, increasing comfort for many
pedestrians. However, some pedestrians who currently use the east sidewalk would
have to make additional road crossings to cross False Creek.

Two additional lane configurations were reviewed but are not considered feasible for a trial:

• Two (2) bicycle lanes, five (5) motor vehicle lanes – One existing general purpose lane
would be converted to provide 1.5-m bicycle lanes in each direction with no separation
from motor vehicle traffic. 1.5-m bicycle lanes on the Burrard Bridge (adjacent to highspeed
traffic and high curbs) would not meet Canadian guidelines for new cycling
facilities, and may be less safe than the existing sidewalk operation. In fact, this option
may deter cyclists from using the bridge.

• Reversible motor vehicle lane – In a configuration with five motor vehicle lanes, a centre
reversible lane designed to accommodate changing directional traffic volumes would
require the installation of extensive and complex traffic management measures and is
therefore not possible as a trial measure in 2009. Lane management for reversible lanes on
the Lions Gate Bridge and the Massey Tunnel extend 600-1000m in advance of the
reversible lanes. Similar arrangements on Burrard Street could extend as far north as
Robson Street and as far south as Broadway. The Lions Gate Bridge and Massey Tunnel do
not have arterial street intersections within their lane management zones. Because the
Burrard Bridge has fairly equal northbound and southbound traffic volume through most of
the day, such an arrangement may not be effective even as a permanent measure.

The two-lane re-allocation (Option 1) has the following characteristics:
• Enhanced pedestrian experience and safety. The two-lane re-allocation allows for the
removal of cyclists from both sidewalks, returning the sidewalks to their original use and
eliminating pedestrian-bicycle conflicts for those who choose to walk across the bridge.
Pedestrian volumes observed during the trial would therefore more likely reflect a
permanent removal of cyclists from the sidewalks.
• Enhanced cycling experience and safety. A two-lane re-allocation would provide cycling
facilities that meet current Canadian guidelines with increased capacity, safety and
comfort in both directions. Cyclists could travel in both directions without concern for
conflict with pedestrians or motor vehicle traffic on the bridge. Wider bike lanes mean
that faster cyclists could pass other cyclists, particularly on the uphill segments, and
would accommodate inline skating and bicycles with trailers. The provision of wider bike
lanes separated from traffic may appeal more to recreational cyclists and could enable a
complete cycling loop of False Creek via Burrard Bridge. Lastly, cyclist volumes observed
during the trial are more likely to reflect a permanent provision of adequate separated
cycling space.
• Reduction in vehicular traffic capacity in both directions. Both northbound and
southbound vehicle capacity would be reduced from three to two lanes with resulting
effects on goods movement, transit and other motorized traffic.
• Improved ability to comprehensively assess impacts. With a two-lane re-allocation, the
effects of providing two vehicle lanes northbound and two vehicle lanes southbound can
be fully assessed for the full period of the trial. This provides for a more complete
assessment of impacts on transit, goods movement and general traffic, the central
purpose of a trial.

The single-lane re-allocation with a shared east sidewalk (Option 2) has the following
characteristics:
• Enhanced cycling experience and safety for southbound cyclists Northbound cyclists
will still face the challenges of sharing the sidewalk with pedestrians.
• Maintains a complete pedestrian sidewalk network. Pedestrians on the west side of the
bridge will have increased comfort and safety through exclusive use of the west sidewalk.
Pedestrians on the east side will have a more direct route than option 3 but will be
required to continue to share the east sidewalk with cyclists.
• Decreased impact on transit, goods movement, and vehicular traffic with no impact on
northbound vehicle traffic; reduced capacity for southbound traffic with requirement
for redirection to Granville and Cambie Bridges.

The single-lane re-allocation with the east sidewalk converted to a bike path (Option 3) has
the following characteristics:
• Increased cycling capacity, safety and comfort in both directions. Cyclists could travel
in both directions without concern for conflict with pedestrians or motor vehicle traffic on
the bridge
• Enhanced pedestrian safety as cyclist/pedestrian conflicts on sidewalks are eliminated.
However the redirection of pedestrians on the east sidewalk will result in some
inconvenience through additional road crossings and a slightly longer route.
• Decreased impact on transit, goods movement, and vehicular traffic with no impact on
northbound vehicle traffic; reduced capacity for southbound traffic with requirement
for redirection to Granville and Cambie Bridge.

****************

APPENDIX D
PAGE 1 OF 1

Intersections and Connecting Streets

The configuration and operation of the two intersections serving the bridge will be critical to
the safe and efficient implementation of a lane re-allocation trial. A number of measures are
listed below which will form the basis of modified intersection operations. It should be noted
that this list is not intended to be definitive.
Details of intersection operations will continue
to be refined up to and during the trial. A number of these measures would not be needed if a
one-lane re-allocation trial were implemented.


1. Transit Lane on Cornwall Avenue, Cypress to Burrard – to provide queue jumping for
transit, the third eastbound lane on Cornwall will become a dedicated transit lane
from its introduction at Cypress to the bridge.

2. Transit Lane on Burrard Street, 1st to Cornwall - to provide queue jumping for transit,
the third northbound lane on Burrard (adjacent to an existing bike lane) will become a
dedicated transit lane from 1st to the bridge.

3. Parking Regulation Changes on Burrard Street, Broadway to 1st – to limit the capacity
of the road network to feed traffic to the Burrard Bridge and to encourage use of
other bridges, existing peak period regulations will be modified or removed to
maintain two northbound lanes of general purpose traffic on Burrard, north of
Broadway. A dedicated right-turn lane may be introduced at 4th to facilitate vehicle
re-routing to Granville Bridge.

4. Southbound Transit Lane on Burrard Street, Pacific to bridge abutment - to provide
enhanced queue jumping for transit, the existing southbound bus lane on Burrard will
be extended approximately 50m south of Pacific.

5. Northbound Transit Lane on Burrard Street, bridge abutment to Pacific – a short bus
lane will be provided approaching the Burrard and Pacific intersection to aid busses
destined for the far-side bus stop on Burrard at Pacific.

6. Pacific to Burrard right-turn slip lane – this eastbound to southbound slip lane will be
reduced from two lanes to one.

7. Burrard to Pacific right-turn slip lane – this northbound to eastbound slip lane will be
re-configured to maintain a single vehicle and to create a bicycle lane connecting to
Hornby Street to provide enhanced cycling access to the downtown bicycle network
form the Burrard Bridge.

8. Pacific to Burrard left-turn lanes – one of two existing left turn lanes will be
eliminated to accommodate the addition of the bicycle lane noted above


9. Bus phases added to Burrard/Pacific and Burrard/Cornwall signals – dedicated signal
phases could be added to hold other traffic while permitting buses to proceed, but at
the cost of overall intersection capacity. Further analysis or early trial monitoring will
precede implementing such measures. Translink staff have requested that the signal
phases be provided from the start of the trial on both Burrard Street approaches to the
bridge to address concerns related to buses merging through curves in the roadway.

Last edited by officedweller; Apr 30, 2009 at 7:39 PM.
     
     
  #109  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:26 PM
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osirisboy osirisboy is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racc View Post
The traffic on the bridge is only an issue for a couple of hours a day 5 days. Often in the mid morning, they close down a lane to replace the banners and the traffic flows smoothly. Meanwhile, the reallocation will improve the safety of people who cycle, walk and run over the bridge all day, seven days a week. With the increase in the number of people walking and cycling over the bridge during the trial, the number of people that benefit could be even greater than the number that might be slightly delayed. And what if people are delayed a bit. I thought people loved their cars and would want to spend as much time in them as possible.
i love being in my car but not in gridlock. so why cant they just make one sidewalk for bikes and one for pedestrians.

so regarding safety issues, is it that there is a risk bikes can go into traffic?? or what?
     
     
  #110  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:41 PM
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I can't wait to stroll leisurely over the BB and admire the views of city and ocean without worrying about being thrown into traffic.

I guess I just don't care if vehicle operators are put out.
     
     
  #111  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osirisboy View Post
i love being in my car but not in gridlock. so why cant they just make one sidewalk for bikes and one for pedestrians.

so regarding safety issues, is it that there is a risk bikes can go into traffic?? or what?
I know that I like to walk over both sides of the bridge.
     
     
  #112  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckkelley View Post
I know that I like to walk over both sides of the bridge.
oh excuse me, arent we spoiled.
     
     
  #113  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:49 PM
zivan56 zivan56 is offline
 
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All that's needed is perhaps a railing. However, what is really needed is a change in attitude of the bike nuts. Who are bike nuts you may ask? They are arrogant pricks that cut off or hit other bikers and pedestrians and hurl insults at everybody who dares walk over the bridge for not giving them the ability to go over 70km/h. These people are typically known as "angry white men" when not on a bike who just need to pick a fight with everyone.
If people riding their bikes over the bridge followed the rules and stayed below 30km/h (as is required on the bridge), there is no safety issue whatsoever unless you have inner ear problems. I go over the bridge on my bike at least once a week and these guys are the only problem that I can see causing safety issues.
     
     
  #114  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckkelley View Post
I can't wait to stroll leisurely over the BB and admire the views of city and ocean without worrying about being thrown into traffic.

I guess I just don't care if vehicle operators are put out.
well frankly i dont care if pedestrians are puit out by only being able to walk on one side. I just dont have much interest spending tax money on this pointless project.
     
     
  #115  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 7:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zivan56 View Post
All that's needed is perhaps a railing. However, what is really needed is a change in attitude of the bike nuts. Who are bike nuts you may ask? They are arrogant pricks that cut off or hit other bikers and pedestrians and hurl insults at everybody who dares walk over the bridge for not giving them the ability to go over 70km/h. These people are typically known as "angry white men" when not on a bike who just need to pick a fight with everyone.
If people riding their bikes over the bridge followed the rules and stayed below 30km/h (as is required on the bridge), there is no safety issue whatsoever unless you have inner ear problems. I go over the bridge on my bike at least once a week and these guys are the only problem that I can see causing safety issues.
i completely agree i was on the seawall in stanely park and some bikers are crazy and almost ran me down. its the bikers who have little respect for anyone, speed, and not respecting stop signs or red lights that are much more dangerous than the current design of the bridge.

i know lets just ban bikes from the bridge and they have to dismount and walk their bikes across
     
     
  #116  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 8:00 PM
DKaz DKaz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osirisboy View Post
well frankly i dont care if pedestrians are puit out by only being able to walk on one side. I just dont have much interest spending tax money on this pointless project.
Um, no. Walking is already the slowest mode of transport without having to cross the street twice.

They should just let cyclists on the road and reduce the vehicle speed limit to 40km/h. It'll be the cheapest thing to do, just replace a few speed limit signs. As far as I know, cyclists on Granville St. Bridge are supposed to use the roadway, they should do the same for Burrard.
     
     
  #117  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 8:01 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
 
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Forcing pedestrians to cross the street twice will not fly.
It's like intersections where one sidewalk is "closed" and you have to cross three times instead of just once.

As for crazy cyclists - It's always a few that spoil it for the many - that goes for bikes or cars.
     
     
  #118  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKaz View Post
Um, no. Walking is already the slowest mode of transport without having to cross the street twice.
aww poor baby. god forbid you have to cross the street twice. — that
     
     
  #119  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 8:41 PM
DKaz DKaz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osirisboy View Post
aww poor baby. god forbid you have to cross the street twice. **** that
Now you're likely assuming that I'm one of the many pedestrians who walk on the Burrard St. Bridge everyday. I'm not, but I used to be when I lived downtown and worked on West Broadway even though I had a car! I would drive or bus it once in awhile if I was too lazy, the problem is not the bridge, the problem is the traffic lights at either end. They could miraculously widen the bridge to 8 lanes and you would still have gridlock, especially for the Pacific Blvd bound drivers.

Reported btw. You're a driver, we get that, a lot of us here are drivers too. But your attitude is not appreciated.
     
     
  #120  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 9:21 PM
racc racc is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osirisboy View Post
oh excuse me, arent we spoiled.
Get over yourself. Surely 16 lanes over False Creek are enough. The infrastructure for driving around Vancouver is far better than the cycling infrastructure, yet you still complain and whine. You can at least drive over the bridge safely. Just be happy you are not risking your life everyday. Surely people who walk and cycle should have at least safe facilities across one of the bridges.
     
     
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