Rapid Transit

[omro]

Originally Posted by omro

I've been on these in Nottingham several times and they are very comfortable and smooth

[thistleclub]

The Globe's John Barber ostensibly swings at the squelchers in a comment piece from today's paper.

[SteelTown]

New Rapid Transit Line 20 A-Line begins service September 6, 2009.

[SteelTown]

From RTH....

Rapid Transit Office now has a perferred B-Line route....



Two way LRT for it's entire route, using King St instead of Main St from Paradise Road to the Delta Square. Convert Main and King St back to two way car traffic.

[FairHamilton]

Looks great!!

Converting King and Main back to two-way is key (paramount), in my opinion.

[Jon Dalton]

Awesome. That is my preferred option as well. It definitely comes as a surpries to me that it was favoured by consultants and the city.

Another plus for 2-way LRT on King is that storefronts along the B-line will actually be visible to passengers. If LRT ran on Main, though the shops are in close proximity, you wouldn't be able to see them.

The current fare system discourages stopovers as they are likely to incur another fare but LRT will mean the end to that system. It will likely be replaced by magnetic tickets which are validated upon boarding and most likely will provide a more flexible fare structure. Some of the LRT's I've rode allow you unlimited travel for 2 hours after purchase.

I believe that making King Street accessible to LRT passengers, who will be more diverse in their economic status than bus passengers, will prove to be better for business than retaining curbside parking. There will be more potential customers on the LRT's passing every 10 minutes than however many parking spots there are at 1.2 average occupants per vehicle.

[markbarbera]

I am extremely concerned about the LRT route being 2-way along King. Given the limited road width allowances along King, it is extremely unlikely that it can accomodate both dedicated right-of-way LRT and streetside parking along King between Dundurn and the Delta. I can't see local businesses suporting this at all. Today, most retailers along King complain that there is not enough curbside parking, and now this proposal will eliminate it entirely.

The Main Street two-way LRT option has not been given proper consideration by the Rapid Transit office, which is doing the city a great disservice. Fortunately, Metrolinx will be performing its own independant case benefit analysis for potential routes not limited by the restrictions our city's Rapid Transit office has artificially imposed.

[SteelTown]

The redevelopment of the old Sandbar Tavern will address the parking issue for most businesses on King St East.

[markbarbera]

Actually, Steeltown, it would address it for only a small stretch of King. Having a parking garage at King and Walnut will not help the businesses on King by Hess, or King at Wentworth. The whole length of King will lose curbside parking, which will have a huge impact on the businesses on King.

In addition, you can say goodbye to local transit service along King Street such as the King, Delaware or University bus routes. Once King Street has just one lane of automobile traffic in either direction, bus service with frequent stops will have to be extensively reduced or even eliminated. Otherwise the traffic bottlenecks will become unmanageable.

[SteelTown]

There is that LCBO/Shoppers/Rogers retail/parking garage proposal for King and Hess that might include residential units. From what I learned it might even include a park and ride feature.

1 King bus might have to change to 1 Main bus.

[Jon Dalton]

Parking can't be the number one concern here. There is also the lot off King near Ferguson, the lot beside Denningers, sidestreets with parking, and various unused spaces that could be made available. The parking issue can be mitigated if there are smaller parking lots interspersed along the route and well signed. This could prove to be more car-friendly than curbside parking with the need to scout out a spot, slow down while people behind you want to keep moving, and parallel park. A totally revitalized pedestrian friendly street with LRT both ways will do more for business than a few parking spots.

[flar]

I still can't believe they won't run LRT into Dundas. I've explained it before, Dundas' core has the density, University Plaza is a dead end.

[LikeHamilton]

I found this picture of what King Street looked like when it had 2 way street car service. This is at King & Furguson Streets.

[mishap]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

The current fare system discourages stopovers as they are likely to incur another fare but LRT will mean the end to that system.

The current HSR fare system totally allows for stopovers, and even a return trip. You have at least 90 minutes to complete your trip (or at least board your final bus). Technically, you have end-of-line-plus-90, so there are many situations where riders are getting far more than 90 minutes.

[bigguy1231]

As much as I would like to see rapid transit in this city, the preferred route of the planners is just not going to fly with the citizens of this city.

Once they realize that all they are getting is a glorified street car system that will render King St. useless for cars through the whole city, the opposition is going to grow.

When people were asked if they were in favour of rapid transit, they overwhelmingly supported it. What they weren't told was that streetcars are considered rapid transit. Which it is not. You can try and dress this up all you want but this is not rapid transit.

Rapid transit should enhance current modes of transit not hinder them as this plan will. Rapid transit should be limited access stations with dedicated rights of way and should not be run down the middle of one of the busiest streets in the city rendering that street useless.

If we are going to build something and call it rapid transit it is going to have to be built either under or over the current road system. The citizens of this city are not going to approve of billions of dollars being spent on something that is essentially no better than what we already have. All it's going to do is take the current busses off King and Main street and replace them with streetcars and at the same time create a traffic bottleneck for those who choose to use their cars.

The plan as presented is not acceptable to me and I am sure a majority of taxpayers in this city. Once the plans are finalized and presented to the city for approval the opposition is going to mount. Councillors who now favour these proposals will waiver in their support, especially with next year being an election year.

[mic67]

bigguy1231

You have got it SO right....seems that very few have figured out what rapid transit really is.

Most every HSR driver I have asked believes and LRT will not happen, likely a BRT.

Streetcars in Toronto are far from rapid transit. Generally and specifically the TTC is rubbish, the HSR rocks except on off hours and on Sundays.

mic67

[adam]

Everything in the previous post about streetcars is misinformation. Whether this was done deliberately or out of ignorance is anyone's guess.

[emge]

Does it really have to be said again that Rapid transit, whether buses or light rail, will have dedicated rights of way?

Does it really have to be said again that streetcars are VERY different from light rail, and streetcars aren't even an option under consideration?

we may just have a troll on this topic...

But hey, just in case we don't...

[matt602]

Yah, the monorail worked pretty well for North Haverbrook. By god it put them on the map.

[omro]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

I found this picture of what King Street looked like when it had 2 way street car service. This is at King & Furguson Streets.

Love that photo, I love the old fashioned streetcar looks.

It looks like the cars are sharing the streetcar lanes rather than the streetcars having dedicated lanes, right?