Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

In downtown it looks to be a maximum 1 & 1/2 blocks from any station to any location along the line. Like that is really going to provide hardship.

As someone who's used to Montreal and Toronto Subway systems, just walk between subway stations in both cities, and you'll find it a long walk. No double that time. This is what Ottawa is getting.

[Rathgrith]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

As someone who's used to Montreal and Toronto Subway systems, just walk between subway stations in both cities, and you'll find it a long walk. No double that time. This is what Ottawa is getting.

If there were more stations, there would be more stops and thus slowing the system down. Walking for a few minutes should not be an issue. I think its fine. The East downtown station is a short walk to Bank. Not a big issue.

I think you are expecting the subway to go into a building, drop you off, and then kiss your ass as you sit down.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

With 160m long stations, and each underground station costing approximately $100 million, I would say they have a good balance. Realistically, they could remove one and reposition the others without reducing projected ridership that much (especially since most riders are captive anyways).

Oh yes it would... because loading times would shoot through the roof. It's going to be bad enough with only 3 stations serving the core (down from 5 right now) but if that were to be reduced further it would insane.

You also have to bear in mind that fewer stations = fewer trains in the core loading at any one time. According to this plan, there is an absolute cap of 3 trains in the downtown. If that were to be reduced it would not only reduce the number of available trains at any one time to 2 but also reduce the effective hourly throughput as well.

You can't just keep reducing station numbers and hope that there are no further consequences. If we're going to build a tunnel, then it has to be done right first time. I tend to favour incrementalism in other things, but tunnels don't lend themselves to it. The tunnel has to have enough stations, they have to be long enough for anything we'll ever run and the tunnels have to be large enough in diameter for double-deck trains.

[waterloowarrior]

The distance between those two CBD stations looks to be about 750 metres... while in Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton and Montreal, they are around 400-500 metres

[highdensitysprawl]

Originally Posted by harls

So long, Glue Pot and Barbarella's. At least we have a few years left together before the hammering begins.

I've never been the Glue Pot....what is this Barbarella's that people are talking about?

[highdensitysprawl]

Originally Posted by Rathgrith

I think you are expecting the subway to go into a building, drop you off, and then kiss your ass as you sit down.

In this society that we live in whereby vast sections of society have a very high sense of entitlement yet don't believe that they should pay for anything that benefits the common good, you'll have people who echo your thoughts.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Rathgrith

I think you are expecting the subway to go into a building, drop you off, and then kiss your ass as you sit down.

That's PAT/PRT.

[m0nkyman]

Not enough stations. I've read the arguments both ways, but I maintain that they are too far apart. 1 1/2 blocks isn't a hardship, but it makes it more appealing to park in the basement when the weather is -30º and the wind is a blowing.

[waterloowarrior]

What does everyone think about the Sussex - Ottawa U distance? It looks to be about 1300-1400 metres via the tunnel, or about 900-1000 metres walking distance (more direct).... seems kind of far to me for a central station

[eemy]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

What does everyone think about the Sussex - Ottawa U distance? It looks to be about 1300-1400 metres via the tunnel, or about 900-1000 metres walking distance (more direct).... seems kind of far to me for a central station

I kind of think so too, but I suppose it is mostly only the University that is affected, and they're captive riders anyway.

[highdensitysprawl]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I kind of think so too, but I suppose it is mostly only the University that is affected, and they're captive riders anyway.

and likely to be fitter than federal gov't slugs.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I kind of think so too, but I suppose it is mostly only the University that is affected, and they're captive riders anyway.

And they'll be buying cars as soon as they can having experienced the joys of our public transit system.

[waterloowarrior]

display boards and presentation with recommended station options

https://ottawa.ca/residents/public_consult/transit_tunnel/interim/index_en.html

[waterloowarrior]

Here's a list of the recommended station options

Tunney's Pasture: Parallel Configuration
Bayview: Direct to Downtown
LeBreton: Buses on Booth/Albert
Downtown Alignment: Cross-Country, Parallel Tunnels
Downtown Stations: Centre configuration... Bay/Lyon, O’Connor, Rideau
Campus Station: South portal, station underground
Lees Station: Side platform, slightly north of existing station
Hurdman: North
Train: Diagonal
St. Laurent: Side platforms (with additional vertical access b/c of longer platforms)
Cyrville: Side platforms
Blair: LRT Lower level

[Kitchissippi]

A couple of photos from this afternoon's unveiling

[harls]

What are the names of the stations going to be, or will that be decided later? I'm assuming Sussex and Campus will stay, as will LeBreton. The other two - Lyon and Metcalfe? 'Dowtown West' and 'Downtown East' seem like placeholders.

Originally Posted by highdensitysprawl

I've never been the Glue Pot....what is this Barbarella's that people are talking about?

We need to talk, sir.

[harls]

Originally Posted by m0nkyman

Not enough stations. I've read the arguments both ways, but I maintain that they are too far apart. 1 1/2 blocks isn't a hardship, but it makes it more appealing to park in the basement when the weather is -30º and the wind is a blowing.

I'm thinking there will be a lot of connections to existing buildings and their thoroughfares (eg. Place de ville, CD Howe) so people won't have to brave the elements. Even right now, I will admit when the weather is not nice, I get my Starbucks at Confederation Sq. III on Kent, cut through the inside, jaywalk across to Minto place and out the other side to Laurier Ave.

[Kitchissippi]

When the Transitway first opened, the stop at Metcalfe was called "Parliament/Parlement". I guess they aren't committing to names for downtown until the major access points are figured out. I like "Rideau" better than Sussex, as it can refer to the canal, the street or the mall. Because the downtown stations are going to be the most used as reference especially for tourists, people often relate them to adjacent spaces rather than the exact street they stop under.

[Suzie]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

With 160m long stations, and each underground station costing approximately $100 million, I would say they have a good balance. Realistically, they could remove one and reposition the others without reducing projected ridership that much (especially since most riders are captive anyways).

In downtown it looks to be a maximum 1 & 1/2 blocks from any station to any location along the line. Like that is really going to provide hardship.

You may or may not be right. This is a key issue for many people but I don’t get the impression that the Consultants/City seriously looked into it. They should have done and made public a comprehensive technical analysis of the costs and benefits of adding a station at Bank and adjusting, as necessary, the location of the other two downtown stations. If the analysis had been rigorous and showed that a station at Bank was not desirable, I would have accepted it and moved on. But all we got was silence on the issue. We will not be able to fix this mistake in the future.

The choice of the alignment (the “Cross-Town route”) is also mistake in my opinion. It means that the eastern station will be located on Queen St, which is farther away from the large current/future office buildings in the area than Albert St or Slater St. The Rideau stop will also be farther north and west than currently is the case, thereby aggravating the loss of the Laurier stop.

I would also question the recommendation to move the Lees stop northward and putting it under the Queensway.

The bottom line is that an opportunity to make a bad plan better (i.e., minimizing the damage) has been lost. I’m still waiting for the other shoe to drop (i.e., the detailed costing), although Richard hinted yesterday at what we can expect.

[waterloowarrior]

press release..

NR: City maps out plan for downtown transit tunnel

Ottawa – The City presented a preview of what Ottawa’s downtown will look like when the new downtown Ottawa transit tunnel is built. Standing above the proposed location of the underground Light Rail Transit (LRT) route, Mayor Larry O’Brien and Councillors Alex Cullen, Maria McRae and Peter Hume revealed plans and images of the future LRT system. The visuals are part of a staff report that recommends the preferred path for the tunnel, the location and layout of the LRT stations and next steps for the public to provide comments.

“The downtown tunnel is the key component to Ottawa’s new transit plan that was approved overwhelmingly by City Council on a vote of 22-2,” said Mayor Larry O’Brien. “This exciting project is a wise investment that offers economic, environmental and social gains for our residents.”

The project includes 12.5 km of LRT track, extending from Tunney’s Pasture to Blair Road with 13 transit stations along the route. The route includes a downtown tunnel from Lebreton Flats to the University of Ottawa, with four below grade stations at Lyon/Bay, O’Connor/Metcalfe, the Rideau Centre and the University of Ottawa Campus Station.

“The LRT system and the downtown Ottawa tunnel will form an integral part of Ottawa’s rapid transit network,” said Councillor Cullen, Chair of the Transit Committee. “The twin-track tunnel will provide a quick, convenient and comfortable trip that creates an enjoyable ride and improves the daily commute for thousands of downtown passengers. LRT is the next generation of transit and will help to expand ridership toward 30 per cent of commuter trips as Ottawa’s population approaches one million.”

The estimated cost to construct the entire LRT line is $830 million. The 3.2 km downtown tunnel portion is expected to cost about $600 million. The City has applied for funding for the project from both the Government of Canada and the Province of Ontario.

“The transit tunnel is vital to solving traffic congestion issues in Ottawa’s downtown core,” said Councillor McRae, Chair of the Transportation Committee. “LRT riders will enjoy a faster trip, without having to stop at cross streets, or deal with delays from motorists travelling through the bus only lanes. Motorists, cyclists and pedestrians will appreciate the reduced volumes on Albert and Slater that will increase their movement through the core.”

The report with staff’s recommendations will be discussed at the May 6 Transit Committee meeting. Council will consider the issue on May 27 and the public will have an opportunity to comment at a second open house in June.
The study is expected to wrap up in January 2010. The start of construction is anticipated for 2012 and could take four to five years to complete.

“An electric LRT system offers a clean environmentally friendly transportation option for commuters,” said Councillor Hume, Chair of the Planning and Environment Committee. “An attractive alternative to commuting by single occupant vehicle will improve the quality of our air and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Ottawa already has a reputation as a clean and green city, the proposed LRT system and downtown tunnel will only serve to enhance our status.”

For more information on the downtown transit tunnel, visit ottawa.ca/tunnel or contact 3-1-1 (TTY: 613-580-2401).
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