Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[waterloowarrior]

from zero means zero

"We're hearing that the boys and girls over at Bombardier are getting the paperwork ready - who said yet another law suit - in the event Siemans gets a "sole source" - you know an exclusive from the city of Ottawa. There's that word again."

[lrt's friend]

We were told long ago, that a significantly new LRT project will have to go to tender.

[waterloowarrior]

City to announce preferred path for transit tunnel


BY JAKE RUPERT, THE OTTAWA CITIZENAPRIL 28, 2009 11:02 AM


OTTAWA — The city will announce on Wednesday the preferred alignment and path of a downtown transit tunnel and placement of the stations.

Municipal planning staff have been studying four different underground paths and several station locations for months to determine which is the best route for the tunnel, which is to anchor the city’s multi-billion dollar unfunded rapid-transit, light-rail network.

Construction of the network is to start with the tunnel and a east-west transit line from Blair Road to Tunney’s Pasture along the current transit way at a cost of $1.4 billion.

The plan will see light-rail running east and west to the edges of the city’s core and south to Riverside South, and be built as quickly as funding can be found. Eventually, light rail would run across the greenbelt to the suburbs.

The subway is to have five stations. Stations at Lebreton Flats and the University of Ottawa are already given, and staff are expected to announce selections for stations to serve the downtown core east and west and the Rideau Centre area.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[Rathgrith]

I sure as hell hope that the station at the U of O is underground!!

[Richard Eade]

I'm fairly confident that the new Capmus Station will be underground, but it will not be as deep as the downtown stations since the section of the tunnel south of Laurier will be constructed using cut and cover. I think that you will find that the tunnel will end at the new Campus Station and the train will run above ground from there, over the existing Mann overpass. The new Campus Station will be in the same place it currently is.

There will not be anything new in this announcement; they could have made it on the second day of the 'Study'.

Oh, except for the cost; which has probably risen. Recall that the original DOTT stuff was estimated at $1357M ($600M for tunnel, $227M for rail conversion - Blair to Tunneys, $100M for a new rail yard, $390M for LRVs, $40M for the new AVTC Bridge) in the approved plan. Expect the DOTT to be priced much closer to $2000M.

And I don't think that the Hurdman Station will be configured for a converted S-E Transitway, so don't get too hopeful about that, either.

Actually, the one thing which might have changed is the placement of the Rideau Station: I would not be surprised to find it a little to the east of where they originally placed it. This would put it more in front of the Rideau Centre. I suggest this because I think that the loose material in the underground valley might be a problem for the TBM and if the station spanned the valley, then it could be dug to help the TBM get past the trouble spot.



Where the red shaded areas are cut and cover.

[Franky]

I was specifically told the AVTC bridge was not needed for the tunnel project, that emergency vehicles could share the Hurdman bridge with trains.

I can't wait to hear the "logic" behind "Hurdman station not being configured for a converted S-E Transitway".

The "good" news is if the cost keeps rising, we'll be back to surface rail or a bus tunnel.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I'm fairly confident that the new Capmus Station will be underground, but it will not be as deep as the downtown stations since the section of the tunnel south of Laurier will be constructed using cut and cover. I think that you will find that the tunnel will end at the new Campus Station and the train will run above ground from there, over the existing Mann overpass. The new Campus Station will be in the same place it currently is.

There will not be anything new in this announcement; they could have made it on the second day of the 'Study'.

Oh, except for the cost; which has probably risen. Recall that the original DOTT stuff was estimated at $1357M ($600M for tunnel, $227M for rail conversion - Blair to Tunneys, $100M for a new rail yard, $390M for LRVs, $40M for the new AVTC Bridge) in the approved plan. Expect the DOTT to be priced much closer to $2000M.

And I don't think that the Hurdman Station will be configured for a converted S-E Transitway, so don't get too hopeful about that, either.

Actually, the one thing which might have changed is the placement of the Rideau Station: I would not be surprised to find it a little to the east of where they originally placed it. This would put it more in front of the Rideau Centre. I suggest this because I think that the loose material in the underground valley might be a problem for the TBM and if the station spanned the valley, then it could be dug to help the TBM get past the trouble spot.



Where the red shaded areas are cut and cover.

They definitely need to protect for the Southeast Transitway, otherwise expropriation would be needed to realign it on a curve, or an awkward 2-platform station would be necessary.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by Franky

I was specifically told the AVTC bridge was not needed for the tunnel project, that emergency vehicles could share the Hurdman bridge with trains.

I can't wait to hear the "logic" behind "Hurdman station not being configured for a converted S-E Transitway".

The "good" news is if the cost keeps rising, we'll be back to surface rail or a bus tunnel.

Specifically told by whom? I haven't hear that from any of the Consultants or Staff members.

The AVTC bridge is being justified by the following: The bridge is in the TMP for future construction; the conversion of the Transitway will take 2-3 years, during which buses will not be able to use the bridge over the Rideau River; trains will not be using the bridge over the Rideau River until the entire line is converted and tested; if the AVTC bridge timetable is advanced, then buses could use that bridge until the train was in service. Thus, the AVTC Bridge should be built ASAP. Q.E.D.

As far as I know, this is still the Consultant's thinking on the subject. (I don't happen to agree with the thinking, but that doesn't alter it.) And, yes, the idea that the AVTC Bridge maintains an emergency evacuation route out of the downtown will also be used to justify it.

Whether it is 'required' is another story, and I don't think that that story will be read tomorrow.

As was originally planned, the S-E Transitway will be THE bus link required to maintain an East-West BRT. The bus will leave Orleans, follow the new Cumberland/Hospital BRT line to Hurdman, then follow the S-E Transitway to the Baseline BRT to head west to Bayshore, then out to Kanata on the West Transitway Extension. (Have you wondered why the missing link of the Western Transitway - Pinecrest to Lincoln Fields - is not a priority?) The bus can even travel from Baseline to Barrhaven on a Bus Transitway. And, of course, the south portion of the S-E Transitway will remain for buses.

Remember, by breaking the transit plan into parts, the Consultants can use the "That's not in my jurisdiction." excuse for not including recommendations for other parts of the system. What we will be getting tomorrow is only the downtown tunnel portion with the extensions along the existing Transitway from Blair to Tunneys. The rest will be "determined in another study" as the Consultants love to say.

As for a bus tunnel, Andy has hinted that he might be taking things to the OMB about that. (All though he might back down on that idea. I don't really know how serious he is about this.)

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

They definitely need to protect for the Southeast Transitway, otherwise expropriation would be needed to realign it on a curve, or an awkward 2-platform station would be necessary.

I believe the current thinking is to have a berm with a track on top of it running from the current Riverside overpass, lowering to the River Bridge. This raised track would be just north of the current bus station, which will be reconfigured. The buses would pull up along side the berm and people would walk into tunnels and climb stairs/escalators/elevators inside the berm to a central platform for the rail station.

I call it a berm just because I think the raised track's support will be almost all built of earth fill - maybe some of the spoil from the tunnel. There will be an underpass so that Industrial can go under the tracks to provide access to the development area north of the station.

Once the buses leave the New Lower (grade) Level of Hurdman Station, they can either go back south on the S-E Transitway, or cross the new AVTC Bridge to go downtown via Nicholas.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Specifically told by whom? I haven't hear that from any of the Consultants or Staff members.

The AVTC bridge is being justified by the following: The bridge is in the TMP for future construction; the conversion of the Transitway will take 2-3 years, during which buses will not be able to use the bridge over the Rideau River; trains will not be using the bridge over the Rideau River until the entire line is converted and tested; if the AVTC bridge timetable is advanced, then buses could use that bridge until the train was in service. Thus, the AVTC Bridge should be built ASAP. Q.E.D.

As far as I know, this is still the Consultant's thinking on the subject. (I don't happen to agree with the thinking, but that doesn't alter it.) And, yes, the idea that the AVTC Bridge maintains an emergency evacuation route out of the downtown will also be used to justify it.

Whether it is 'required' is another story, and I don't think that that story will be read tomorrow.

As was originally planned, the S-E Transitway will be THE bus link required to maintain an East-West BRT. The bus will leave Orleans, follow the new Cumberland/Hospital BRT line to Hurdman, then follow the S-E Transitway to the Baseline BRT to head west to Bayshore, then out to Kanata on the West Transitway Extension. (Have you wondered why the missing link of the Western Transitway - Pinecrest to Lincoln Fields - is not a priority?) The bus can even travel from Baseline to Barrhaven on a Bus Transitway. And, of course, the south portion of the S-E Transitway will remain for buses.

Remember, by breaking the transit plan into parts, the Consultants can use the "That's not in my jurisdiction." excuse for not including recommendations for other parts of the system. What we will be getting tomorrow is only the downtown tunnel portion with the extensions along the existing Transitway from Blair to Tunneys. The rest will be "determined in another study" as the Consultants love to say.

As for a bus tunnel, Andy has hinted that he might be taking things to the OMB about that. (All though he might back down on that idea. I don't really know how serious he is about this.)

I heard it at the DOTT open house from the Q&A session's presenter in front of a room full of people.

AVTC bridge - use the Queensway's ramps instead.

The new Cumberland/Hospital BRT is another mistake that will be debated (starting tomorrow). If the plan must be LRT, the "Cumberland/Hospital BRT" should be LRT via the Train Yards.

What?! You mean consultants don't tell the WHOLE truth?! Though I see this happening all over the place, I'm thinking these sorts of lies gets us the kind of crap we keep seeing and it needs to stop. So I'll take it to the bank under the assumption that consultants, as representatives of the city, would not knowingly mislead Ottawa citizens or at least would not be allowed to. BTW, Vivian Chi(sp?) was present and responding as well at the Q&A so this lie (if it was a lie) was condoned.

For the censors: Monorail.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

As for a bus tunnel, Andy has hinted that he might be taking things to the OMB about that. (All though he might back down on that idea. I don't really know how serious he is about this.)

BWHAHAHA!! Andy taking the City to the OMB over their not including his bus tunnel! Hilarious. What's he going to do? Haul in John Bonsall as an expert witness? Well if there's one way to see off Andy and maybe the OMB in one shot, that's the way. If Andy loses, that's the end of Andy. If Andy wins, that's the end of the OMB because there is no way that the Province is going to allow BRT proponents an opportunity to rewrite the major transit plans in the Toronto area via the OMB. There's simply too much at stake for a bizarre bus fetish in Ottawa combined with OMB overreach to be permitted to endanger the expansion of real transit in the GTA. If the OMB has any sense of self-preservation, it'll know which way to "find" in such a case...

Originally Posted by Franky

I heard it at the DOTT open house from the Q&A session's presenter in front of a room full of people.

I don't recall that... what exactly was said? That a new bridge wasn't strictly necessary?

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Dado

I don't recall that... what exactly was said? That a new bridge wasn't strictly necessary?

That the AVTC bridge was not necessary for the project and that emergency vehicles could share/use the existing bridge.

[MalcolmTucker]

Not with 2 minute frequency they couldn't. At least not regularly. You would either have to have a section of street rules, or block trains from the section when it is otherwise needed.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

Not with 2 minute frequency they couldn't. At least not regularly. You would either have to have a section of street rules, or block trains from the section when it is otherwise needed.

??? 2 minutes? Only 2 seconds are needed between cars, so you could fit a pretty long string of emergency vehicles in a 2 minute interval. I'm not sure what you mean here.

[OttawaSteve]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

City to announce preferred path for transit tunnel

BY JAKE RUPERT, THE OTTAWA CITIZENAPRIL 28, 2009 11:02 AM

Details on today's media event (note the location...):

http://ottawa.ca/cgi-bin/pressco.pl?&Elist=15265&lang=en

[waterloowarrior]

Here's what the Citizen is saying this morning...

Planning staff settles on route, stations for underground light-rail transit tunnel
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Planning+st...t+rail+transit+tunnel/1543810/story.html

BY JAKE RUPERT, THE OTTAWA CITIZENAPRIL 29, 2009 7:00 AMCOMMENTS (7)




Proposed route for the LRT tunnel.
Photograph by: Dennis Leung, The Ottawa Citizen
OTTAWA — Even without funding commitments from the provincial and federal governments, Ottawa's downtown subway project planning is moving ahead at full steam with the announcement today of the preferred route.

According to a briefing note on the announcement, the tunnel will follow what staff call a "cross-country alignment."

It will start on the downtown edge of Lebreton Flats, roughly at Albert Street, run under the road to roughly Kent Street, then angle northward and cross downtown under streets and buildings and under Confederation Square.

It will then go under the canal to roughly Rideau Street and Sussex Drive, then loop south under more streets and buildings before lining up under Nicholas Street, passing the University of Ottawa campus before popping back to the surface on the existing transitway near Lees Station.

The note says staff will also announce the location of five large stations for the project. One will be above ground on Lebreton Flats. The four other stations will be underground between Bay and Lyon streets, O'Connor and Metcalfe streets, near Rideau Street and Sussex Drive, and at the university.

The stations will have platforms in the centre with rail lines running on either side of them, the note says.

Municipal planning staff studied several different underground paths and a number of station locations for months to determine the best route for the tunnel, which is to anchor the city's planned multibillion-dollar rapid-transit, light-rail network.

If built, the network will see light-rail lines running to the edges of the city's core east and west, south across the greenbelt to Riverside South, and improved bus transit ways serving the suburbs. This portion is to be built as fast as funding becomes available. Eventually, light-rail lines would run to the east and west suburbs, but only after they reach ridership and population density targets.

Construction of the network is to start with the tunnel, which is 3.2-kilometres long, and a east-west, 12.5-kilometre transit line from Blair Road to Tunney's Pasture along the current transitway and through the tunnel at an estimated cost of $1.4 billion.

The city has requested the provincial and federal government each contribute a third of the funding for the project. City officials have been meeting with their upper tier counterparts to discuss the project, but neither government has announced support.

However, in an interview Tuesday, Mayor Larry O'Brien said he thinks these governments will commit to funding the project this summer.

The necessary studies, including detailed geological testing, and costing projections on the tunnel are expected to be completed early next year, and the briefing note says "construction may begin as early as 2012, and take four to five years to complete."

It adds that the tunnel is designed alleviate the major problem with the existing bus-based transit system -- congestion on downtown streets.

"The additional capacity provided by the tunnel will address congestion by removing buses from downtown streets and make commutes more manageable, while enhancing the city's sustainability and quality of life," the note says.

In May, elected officials on the transit committee and city council will vote on the preferred routes, station location and design.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Here's what the Citizen is saying this morning...

Yé for the most expensive routing with the most curves, because it can reach 2000 more people! Such good planning! Comments: not enough stations downtown, nuff said.

[jcollins]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Yé for the most expensive routing with the most curves, because it can reach 2000 more people! Such good planning! Comments: not enough stations downtown, nuff said.

Well said. One around Kent-Bank would be a perfect addition.

Part of me thinks one between the Sussex station and the Campus station, but Im not even sure if it'd be worth it.

[harls]

So long, Glue Pot and Barbarella's. At least we have a few years left together before the hammering begins.

[MalcolmTucker]

With 160m long stations, and each underground station costing approximately $100 million, I would say they have a good balance. Realistically, they could remove one and reposition the others without reducing projected ridership that much (especially since most riders are captive anyways).

In downtown it looks to be a maximum 1 & 1/2 blocks from any station to any location along the line. Like that is really going to provide hardship.