YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[osirisboy]

there is so much land around the area already that is ready for development there is no need to try and demolish burkeville anytime soon.

[punkster1982]

By Joanne Lee-Young, Vancouver SunApril 13, 2009


VANCOUVER — It’s always an arduous affair when two countries sit down to hammer out so-called “open-skies” agreements.

The arcane details of how talks went last November, when officials from Canada and Korea met behind closed doors to discuss widening air services, are unclear, but it appears that each side returned home with a different sense of how things should proceed.

In Korea, local news reports proclaimed a breakthrough. KBS News, the country’s public broadcaster, reported: “South Korea and Canada have agreed to the full liberalization of air travel. The Land, Transport and Maritime Affairs Ministry in Seoul says Korea became the first Asian nation to strike such a deal with Canada during two-day talks in Vancouver.”

Seeing these headlines in Korea, observers checked Transport Canada’s website, but there was no corresponding news.

Now, five months later, there is a mini-brouhaha because Korean Air has ramped up its Vancouver staff and sold thousands of tickets, believing it would be able to bump its three-times-a-week service to daily flights starting in late March or early April. Instead, the silence from Ottawa has been deafening.

It’s not just Seoul that wants to know when things might move ahead, but Victoria does, too, according to Premier Gordon Campbell.

Both the Vancouver Airport Authority and Transport Canada say that no agreement was reached between the two countries in November. “No date has been set for the signing as negotiations have not yet concluded,” said Transport Canada spokeswoman Maryse Durette in an e-mail.

Pressed for details on what could be stalling the process—for example, has the economic downturn changed the landscape? — the federal body said only that it is “very interested in reaching agreement with Korea to benefit customers in both Canada and Korea. Again, there is no set timeline to these negotiations. We unfortunately don’t have more to say at this time, but the negotiations have to follow due process.”

Over at Korean Air, Vancouver-based regional manager James Koh is at a loss to explain the situation. He has hired about 20 new staff across various departments to deal with an expanded schedule.

“I don’t know exactly what was agreed. Only the governments know. But usually in the case of air services talks, they decide their position first, then negotiate the details.” In a later e-mail, he said that it is “normal international practice” to work out everything and cement a deal within three months.

Jay Shin, the Vancouver-based vice-president of the Canada Korea Business Association and a partner at Borden Ladner Gervais, says: “The Koreans thought they had an agreement in principle. … They had an expectation that it was going to be signed before March of this year.”

Indeed, in a letter dated mid-March to Premier Campbell, Korean Air president J.H. Lee explained the company’s strategy and its hopes for a stop-gap measure: “Since it was believed that the agreements would be effectuated soon, we have worked out Canada routes expansion plans for 2009 summer season. However, due to unexpected delay of the agreements between our two governments, we have no choice but to operate additional flight as extras.”

Even with this, however, Lee has been stonewalled: “We keep hearing over a month, on one hand, from CTA [the Canadian Transportation Agency] that Air Canada’s concurrence is indispensable to approve Korean Air’s application for extra flights, and on the other hand, from Air Canada that they are not to give a concurrence now that the open-skies scheme is agreed upon.”

Without even a temporary solution, Korean Air started in early April to cancel flights right through its summer schedule into October. In total, some 7,000 passengers had to be “re-accommodated,” according to Korean Air.

For David Moon, owner of one of the larger agencies selling Korean Air tickets, Smile Travel Agency in Coquitlam, the rigmarole of doing this “is a big headache right now. Many people are very angry that the flights are being cancelled. We have to change them to Seattle, to L.A., to San Francisco, or onto Air Canada.”

These U.S. cities have already been benefitting because the U.S. has an open-skies agreement with Korea. Flights from Seoul to Seattle on Korean Air costs just $735, compared to the cheapest fare to Vancouver at $1,150.

Last week, one day after Transport Canada’s e-mail to The Vancouver Sun, the situation took another turn when the Canadian Transport Agency granted Korean Air permission to put the 52 extra summer-to-the-end-of-October flights it had cancelled back in play.

The decision still won’t give Korean Air the daily access it had expected, but will get it up to five flights per week out of Vancouver for a period of time. It isn’t clear yet what will happen after October and into the winter schedule.

Although air travel stats from Asia have been tumbling as the global recession worsens, demand does appear to outstrip supply on this specific route. For the first quarter of this year, the passenger load factor (or how much passenger-carrying capacity is used) on Korean Air was over 95 per cent, according to Koh.

He believes the case is similar elsewhere. He estimates that Air Canada has about 40 per cent of the market share on this route, Korean Air about 25 per cent, and Singapore Airlines about 20 per cent. At the end of April, however, there will be a fresh source of long-term pressure for more seats because Singapore Airlines is bowing out of the picture completely.

Premier Campbell has been publicly urging Ottawa to secure more liberal air agreements with various Asian countries for the sake of trade and tourism. He regularly suggests that B.C. business people should pester their local MPs about this.

“Flights and traffic can lead to investments of other kinds,” said Shin. “I have clients now that came to Canada 10 years ago to visit or to learn English. They had such a favourable impression.

“It is easier for Koreans to set up businesses [in Canada] and look from here at North America as an overall market. But if trade delegations and business people who want to scope out Vancouver have to first stop in Seattle, if it is easier to travel there, Vancouver will lose out.”

It’s a chorus that goes beyond B.C. In Alberta, the Calgary Airport Authority has “become aware of seemingly non-competitive and restrictive actions that we feel have the potential to damage the aviation, tourism and business linkages between Canada, Korea and the connecting Asian markets,” according to an e-mail sent from Katherine Kelly, its director of air service development and industry relations, to Transport Canada.

“In consideration of the economic times and the positive impact that Asian tourism and business linkage have on our city, province and country, we find it puzzling that the Canadian government would prevent ‘open-skies’ between Canada and Korea, or in the interim, an additional 120 flights into Canada.”

[email protected]
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/sputtering+start+Seoul+Vancouver+open+skies/1490147/story.html

[SpongeG]

Singapore Airlines no longer flying out of Vancouver

Airline blames the tough economy

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - After 20 years of operations in Vancouver, tomorrow will be the last flight for Singapore Airlines.

Sales manager for Western Canada Michael Wraight says the office will remain operating until the end of May. "And all the staff will be let go, we will have two people representing the company. One in Western Canada will be representing Singapore Airlines, one in Eastern Canada. We will be reporting to our regional office in Los Angeles."

About 23 people will be losing their jobs. Wraight says passengers out of Canada can now use star alliance carriers to transfer to Singapore Airlines flights to Asia. Wraight blames the economy and calls it a sad day. The last flight will go from Vancouver to Seoul, then from Seoul onto Singapore.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20090424_144626_8952

Several injured after Air Canada flight hits turbulence

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - At least a dozen people were injured aboard an Air Canada flight en route to Vancouver from Sidney, Australia after encountering severe turbulence. Air Canada Flight 34 encountered the turbulence southwest of Hawaii at around 3:10 a.m. Pacific time.

Air Canada's Angela Mah says nine passengers and two flight attendants have been treated for minor injuries during an unscheduled stop in Honolulu, where the plane was inspected. It departed from Honolulu about two hours later. Two other passengers remained there for further assessment, but have since been released and will return to Vancouver later today.

Mah says the airline will be investigating the incident. "We're going to be doing a further investigation into the incident, but the seatbelt sign was on during the time the turbulence occurred."

The Boeing 777 aircraft was carrying 256 passengers and 17 crew members.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20090424_120418_1780

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by punkster1982

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/sputtering+start+Seoul+Vancouver+open+skies/1490147/story.html

Unless your initials are YYZ, you get put on the back burner.

I wouldn't surprise me if they were trying to get more flights into YYZ as a condition of flying more flights to YVR.

[Gordon]

It Seems that starting today the Flex gates in the International Terminal have been re - numbered ie CD5 or DE7 instead of having the gates numbered more or less numerically from 50-96

[Yume-sama]

Supposedly JAL is letting any customers booked on JAL 017 / 018 from YVR - NRT (or NRT - YVR) cancel without penalty.

These flights are codeshare with Mexicana Airlines and fly from NRT - YVR - Mexico City and back.

In addition...

* ･All meals on board JAL flights do not contain pork produced in Mexico.
* ･All pork used in in-flight meals have undergone safety checks and are thoroughly cooked.
* ･Face masks are loaded onboard every JAL flight.
* ･The air-cleaning systems onboard JAL aircraft have been fitted with the highest grade of filter that has been authorised by aircraft makers, to ensure the air in the cabin remain clean.

[CBeats]

^^ Those measures are mostly unecessary. You can't get the swine flu from eating pork. Apparently wearing gas masks does not prevent the spread of infection.

[SpongeG]

at least with masks people who don't cover their mouth at least are covered

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Unless your initials are YYZ, you get put on the back burner.

I wouldn't surprise me if they were trying to get more flights into YYZ as a condition of flying more flights to YVR.

Precisely! It's too bad that that the majority of people out here can't wake up and the smell the coffee.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Precisely! It's too bad that that the majority of people out here can't wake up and the smell the coffee.

And what exactly could people do about it?

[zahav]

Canada's air regulations are a joke, they are so outdated, if I was an airline I wouldn't want to deal with all of their red tape... but it's true, they give Toronto the best of all routes, and leave Vancouver to suffer.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

And what exactly could people do about it?

First of all, if enough people are actively interested, they could (and can) write to their MP in Ottawa. With enough letters, this would give local Parliamentary representatives "bargaining power" to start a debate on the topic with the Minister of Transport (nearly all of whom, you will notice, are from Southern Ontario and Quebec; formerly Lawrence Cannon, now John Baird). "Takin' it to the streets" is the most effective way of creating change, and this IS possible if enough people write and make their voices heard, rather than just sitting back and lamenting the situation.

[LotusLand]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

First of all, if enough people are actively interested, they could (and can) write to their MP in Ottawa. With enough letters, this would give local Parliamentary representatives "bargaining power" to start a debate on the topic with the Minister of Transport (nearly all of whom, you will notice, are from Southern Ontario and Quebec; formerly Lawrence Cannon, now John Baird). "Takin' it to the streets" is the most effective way of creating change, and this IS possible if enough people write and make their voices heard, rather than just sitting back and lamenting the situation.

Okay I'll start and I urge everyone else on this site to start, perhaps a facebook group even I don't know but lets get the word that enough is enough and its time for a change. No more T.O. as the hub screw them. We want more direct flights from Van.

Although having said that the economic climate would trump everything else, now add the swine flu and its only going to get worse.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LotusLand

Okay I'll start and I urge everyone else on this site to start, perhaps a facebook group even I don't know but lets get the word that enough is enough and its time for a change. No more T.O. as the hub screw them. We want more direct flights from Van.

Although having said that the economic climate would trump everything else, now add the swine flu and its only going to get worse.

Thanks for your support! Gather kindling, gather firewood. Set it ablaze. Then spray CO2 foam all over it and watch it fizzle out. Keep up the faith. Isn't that the Canadian way? (... and people wonder why things don't change ....)

[abc1]

Does anyone have any current pics/renderings of C pier (is it due to be finished this summer) and if they plan to finish it (Both) in a way that complements the international terminal? B pier looks like little has been updated since it was built.

[trofirhen]

Here is an exhaustive list of Air Canada destinations from YYZ (Toronto) It does not include air Canada Jazz. For interest, it came from Wikipedia. Compare it with the list of Air Canada destinations out of Vancouver. Oh, and don't forget to throw in a few other air lines like Alitalia, El-Al, Olympic .... plus major European, American, and foreign carriers .......
_____________________From YYZ: Air Canada: Antigua, Aruba, Barbados, Beijing-Capital, Bermuda, Bogotá, Boston, Buenos Aires-Ezeiza, Calgary, Cancún, Caracas, Cayo Coco/Cayo Guillermo, Chicago-O'Hare, Cozumel, Dallas/Fort Worth, Deer Lake, Denver, Dublin [seasonal], Edmonton, Fort Lauderdale, Fort McMurray, Fort Myers, Frankfurt, Geneva [begins 1 June][16] Grand Cayman, Grenada, Halifax, Havana, Holguin, Hong Kong, Ixtapa-Zihuatanejo, Kelowna, Kingston, Las Vegas, Liberia (Costa Rica) [seasonal], Lima, London-Heathrow, Los Angeles, Madrid [seasonal], Mexico City, Miami, Montego Bay, Montréal, Munich, Nassau, New York-LaGuardia, Newark, Orlando, Ottawa, Paris-Charles de Gaulle, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Providenciales, Puerto Plata, Puerto Vallarta, Punta Cana, Regina, Rome-Fiumicino [seasonal], San Francisco, Samana [seasonal], San José de Costa Rica, San José del Cabo, San Juan [seasonal], Santa Clara (Cuba), Santiago de Chile, São Paulo-Guarulhos, Sarasota/Bradenton [seasonal], Saskatoon, Seattle/Tacoma, Seoul-Incheon [seasonal], Shanghai-Pudong, St. John's (NL), St. Maarten [seasonal], St. Lucia, Sydney (AUS), Tampa, Tel Aviv, Tokyo-Narita, Vancouver, Varadero, Victoria, Washington-Reagan, West Palm Beach, Winnipeg, Zürich ____________________
(the joke's on us)

[twoNeurons]

Canada, Japan expand bilateral air transport agreement

TOKYO -- Canada and Japan have agreed to expand their existing bilateral air transport agreement.



The expanded agreement allows airlines to offer unlimited services between Canada and any city in Japan outside of the Tokyo area. It also allows, for the first time, under certain conditions, access to Haneda Airport, Tokyo's metropolitan airport. Officials say the agreement further includes modernized aviation safety and security provisions and provides mechanisms for airline prices to adapt faster to market fluctuations.



Stockwell Day, Minister of International Trade and Minister for the Asia-Pacific Gateway, has said the move will benefit trade, tourism and investments in Canada's economy.



"This expanded agreement will be of considerable benefit to Canadian business," said Minister Day, who was in Tokyo for a series of meetings aimed at opening new opportunities for Canadian exporters and investors. "This agreement will permit Canadian citizens to fly directly to regions in Japan outside of Tokyo, making their travel more efficient. As well, it will help create new jobs for our economy, expand market potential and build connections for our citizens across the important Asia-Pacific Gateway."



Officials have touted the new agreement as evidence of further progress in the Government of Canada's $1-billion Asia-Pacific Gateway and Corridor Initiative (APGCI). The APGCI is a national initiative that focuses on ensuring Canada's competitiveness in global commerce, including air services, while also benefiting local communities by improving the safety, security and environmental sustainability of the transportation system in the long term.

source

I welcome any improved service to Japan. I thought AC had suspended YVR-KIX(Osaka) for economic reasons, which didn't make sense, because those flights were always full.

Currently, the YVR-NAR flight originates at YYZ. I certainly hope we can get a YVR-KIX reinstated, or at least a YVR-HND (Tokyo Haneda), which would make it a lot easier to transfer (there are a LOT more flights from HND to other destinations inside Japan)

[Yume-sama]

From what I read the Haneda times will be extremely odd, during non-peak hours. I think it was between 22:00 and 05:00 both arriving and departing.

I'd rather just stick to Narita, given those times

JAL has pretty good times from YVR - NRT 5 - 6x per week, with one day having 2 departures and arrivals.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

From what I read the Haneda times will be extremely odd, during non-peak hours. I think it was between 22:00 and 05:00 both arriving and departing.

I'd rather just stick to Narita, given those times

JAL has pretty good times from YVR - NRT 5 - 6x per week, with one day having 2 departures and arrivals.

Ick. No kidding. However, it might make sense to land a plane in Haneda at 5:00, and then transfer on the first flight out to Sapporo, Osaka etc. probably around 6:00-6:30. You're at your final destination in time for breakfast.

a 22:30 flight out of Vancouver would put you in Vancouver around 13:30 or so.

Not the best of flights, but if you can sleep on the plane, those can be good times.

[trofirhen]

The last time I was in Vancouver was back in 2006, while the LINK building was under construction, and the Pier C expansion had not yet begun. I wonder what the terminal looks like now. Does anyone have some good visuals of YVR? I'd love to see them, and I'm sure a lot of people, would, too.
Thank you, fellow readers.