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  #1641  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2009, 6:21 PM
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^^^ Their "tube" system is absolutely amazing! It was so nice to get on at any of the stations they have everywhere and be across the city within half an hour (and the London city limits are enormous). Plus saving all the time not having to find parking... step off the tube and you are standing in front of where you needed to be.
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  #1642  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2009, 7:06 PM
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I lived in London for a while also! By having the opportunity to live in this large city with thousands of years of history (unmarked by the automobile) behind it, I could easily see how community infrastructure built around the pedestrian is far superior and more efficient than community infrastructure built around the automobile. People are empowered by infrastructure built around people (obvious); but some people don't seem to get this. Infrastructure built around the automobile is only good for those who have car or can afford one. However, they have to breath the same air as everyone else, so currently it's not even really good for them; and don't forget about road rage, which I think causes short term sociopathic behavior with real consequences. It can also put someone in a pissy mood, which isn't good for building community. Has anyone ever heard of light-rail, street-car, bus, bicycle, or trolley rage?
Urbanboy you crack me up! You are soooo dramatic when describing cars and their cost/benefits. I love how the car is used as the whipping boy. I have rode mass transit in other countries, states and of course our own, and can attest to the fact that it contributes to sociopathic behavior at least as much as the car....which is zero. I have some of the most aggravating experiences of my life dealing with riding mass transit, but likewise with car traffic and mechanical problems. It is amazing how the angriest city in the world (New York) can be so grumpy will their Utopian mass transit. I enjoy your passion.
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  #1643  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2009, 7:40 PM
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New York's mass transit isn't what I would call Utopian at all... last time I was there the subway system was filthy and run down, and only the lower class seem to use it. All the upper class either have drivers or cab it. London is what I would call a great example of Utopian mass transit. Clean, well maintained, and efficient.
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  #1644  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2009, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by DMTower View Post
New York's mass transit isn't what I would call Utopian at all... last time I was there the subway system was filthy and run down, and only the lower class seem to use it. All the upper class either have drivers or cab it. London is what I would call a great example of Utopian mass transit. Clean, well maintained, and efficient.

The NYC subway is totally ghetto! London's Tube is a lot nicer but shuts down WAY too early. Sucks to get stranded clear across London because you missed the last train at like 10pm (seriously happened to me!) I like that the NYC subway is 24 hour though.
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  #1645  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2009, 1:20 AM
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Lightbulb

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The NYC subway is totally ghetto! London's Tube is a lot nicer but shuts down WAY too early. Sucks to get stranded clear across London because you missed the last train at like 10pm (seriously happened to me!) I like that the NYC subway is 24 hour though.
There's a reason why London's Tube is clean while New York's subways are trashed. They shut down the trains at night to do maintenance.

You can't have both!
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  #1646  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2009, 3:27 AM
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Originally Posted by WASDEN View Post
The NYC subway is totally ghetto! London's Tube is a lot nicer but shuts down WAY too early. Sucks to get stranded clear across London because you missed the last train at like 10pm (seriously happened to me!) I like that the NYC subway is 24 hour though.
I lived in NYC for several years and I never thought the subway was ghetto. Sure, I've been in cleaner subways, but I kinda liked the grittiness of the city.

I definitely don't think only the lower classes use the subway in NYC. I am upper middle class and I used the subway most of the time, occasionally took cabs or private cars. I know I wasn't the only non-lower class person using the subway. And I always felt safe riding the subway no matter how late at night I was on it.

Also, someone previously said NYC was angry. I didn't experience it that way. NYC has a bad reputation for not being very friendly, but my experience living there was the exact opposite. I expected to experience an unfriendly city, but I found NYers to be extremely friendly and helpful. NYers in my opinion are far nicer than Salt Lakers who are extremely fake to your face but will stab you in the back the moment you turn around.
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  #1647  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2009, 3:37 AM
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There's a reason why London's Tube is clean while New York's subways are trashed. They shut down the trains at night to do maintenance.

You can't have both!
Well, we may not win with mass transit, but at least our interstate system kicks their motorways' butt.

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  #1648  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2009, 4:04 PM
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If you're driving on the 21st South freeway, you can see TRAX under construction to the south. It will cross I-15 using an existing underpass and then be elevated until it gets west of the Jordan River. It will cross the rail yard, 9th West, and the Jordan River. There will be a station on the west side of the river near a small park and the Jordan River Parkway. There's also an Islamic(?)- type temple south of there. That area would be an excellent place for high-density housing. I wonder if there's any plans for some. That's one of my favorite places to walk my dog.
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  #1649  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2009, 11:00 PM
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So I found myself out in West Jordan yesterday with my camera, and was impressed with how much progress had been made on the Jordan TRAX line:
4800 W looking West:




4800 W looking East:



Overpass work at Bangeter:



Crews placing ties near 4000 W:



4000 W lookingEast:



Placing sound walls near Sugar Factory:



Overpass at 7800 S:
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  #1650  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 2:37 AM
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Yep, this is what I see everyday. You are like .2 miles from my house at 4800 West.
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  #1651  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 4:36 AM
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Grade separation!!! Nice!

Thanks for the photos.
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  #1652  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 6:19 PM
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Wow, they're cruising. That's good to see.
As I remember right, this line, the West valley line, and the south-bound Front Runner all open the same year (2011?) Is that right?
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  #1653  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 7:04 PM
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That's near where I live. Thanks for the photo update.
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  #1654  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 1:08 PM
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Greening the fleet: State eyes hundreds of hybrid, natural gas vehicles

by Robert Gehrke
The Salt Lake Tribune


Utah's fleet could get a lot cleaner in the coming year, as the state spends $4.5 million to more than double the number of natural gas cars and gas-electric hybrids in the fleet.

It is a major investment and part of an effort to reduce emissions and cut costs for the roughly 7,400 motor vehicle fleet and officials say it puts Utah at the forefront when it comes to putting compressed natural gas -- or CNG -- vehicles on the road.

"In CNG we're out in front again," said Margaret Chambers, director of the state's Division of Fleet Operations. "I feel like we're still leading by example."

Over the next 14 months, officials are planning to buy 26 new CNG vehicles and convert nearly 100 from gasoline burning engines to run on natural gas.

The fleet also plans to buy a total of 343 new hybrid sedans -- either the Toyota Prius or the Cheverolet Malibu -- over that same period.

Keith Swearingen, president of the Rocky Mountain Fleet Management Association, said the move to hybrid and CNG cars is one of several options for state and local fleets and works well when it comes to passenger vehicles.

He said the technologies reduce the carbon footprint and the federal government is offering incentives through the stimulus package to coax fleets in that direction.

Salt Lake County, however, hasn't started moving toward natural gas because of the high infrastructure costs, said Greg Nuzman, associated director of the county fleet.

The total upgrade will cost the state $4 million more than just buying traditional gasoline-powered cars, but Chambers said the state will end up saving money over the life of the cars -- it's just not clear how much.

Richard Kolodziej, president of the Natural Gas Vehicle Association, a trade organization advocating for CNG vehicles, said that the CNG makes the most sense for light-duty trucks, because that's where the most efficiencies can be gained. But there are advantages for passenger cars as well.

"We've always had the environmental benefit, lower urban pollution, lower greenhouse gases ... that public policy benefit, we've always had that," he said. "When gasoline went to $4 per gallon our phones started ringing off the hook."

Now that gas prices have dropped, Chambers said, it will take longer before the state breaks even on the investment in the cars, but there will be savings. The CNG and hybrid cars also have a higher resale value at the end of their life cycle, she said.

The infusion of new CNG cars is a revival of sorts for the state.

About a decade ago, the state started making a push to convert the entire fleet to natural gas cars, but ran into trouble because there weren't enough natural gas refueling stations around the state to make the cars practical, said Chambers.

There were other problems, too, said Swearingen. The converted cars would break down and parts were hard to come by.

"I would describe CNG as a re-emerging piece," he said. "They've worked out most of the bugs and because the energy is in the United States they're looking to put that back into the marketplace, so, yes, it is emerging again."

Chambers said her goal is to get an alternative fuel vehicle in every case there is an option -- there is no substitute available for some diesel engines or other vehicles -- and to find a balance between natural gas and hybrid cars.

The natural gas vehicles are mostly deployed in the urban areas where most of the refueling stations are located. But the state also is trying to beef up its refueling network, using $500,000 from the Legislature to upgrade three stations, a response to the demand when the state opened its fueling stations to the public.


Utah adding clean-fuel cars to fleet.
Compressed Natural Gas:

86 vehicles in current fleet

26 new CNG vehicles to be purchased in 2009-2010 fiscal years

About 100 planned CNG conversions

200 total CNG cars*

Hybrid Vehicles:

192 hybrids in current fleet

148 planned purchases in 2009 budget year

195 planned purchases in 2010 budget year

535 total hybrid cars*


Source: Division of Fleet Operations

* Totals do not include cars that may reach the end of their life-cycle and sold.


.
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  #1655  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 5:23 PM
East2Westback East2Westback is offline
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I lived in London for a year and have lived in NYC for 2 decades plus...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMTower View Post
New York's mass transit isn't what I would call Utopian at all... last time I was there the subway system was filthy and run down, and only the lower class seem to use it. All the upper class either have drivers or cab it. London is what I would call a great example of Utopian mass transit. Clean, well maintained, and efficient.
You have obviously not been in NYC for a very long time. This subway system is far from filthy and rundown. "only the lower class seem to use it. " Please, you do not have a clue about what you are talking about. In NYC, everyone uses the subway. Fast and to the point. Just how many years has it been since you were in NYC? If you say less than 10 years then you are just either making things up or you were experiencing a very unusual time. I have never seen or been on a more encompassing subway.This is not personal because anyone who has been here or used the subway in the past decade knows how much things have changed. Plus, one fare and you can go anywhere. The Buss system is a fluid and maintained as it gets. Since a cab ride is just so ridiculous now, all New Yorkers are lucky to have this great system.

They are also initiating light rail in all of the other boroughs and those are integrated with subway and buss.

I do love the Tube. Nice stations. The difference that annoys me is that it charges by distance.

There are many new subway systems that are off the charts that most people do not even know about. Guongzhou and Shanghi have great subway transit and new. It is amazing what the Olympics does. Frankfurt Germany has a great one integrated with the light rail. Le Metro in Montreal and DC also. All are well integrated with their Bus systems and toad systems.

I have been fortunate to be in a business that I get to travel. I know there are many subways that I have never been on that just rock!
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  #1656  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by East2Westback View Post
You have obviously not been in NYC for a very long time. This subway system is far from filthy and rundown. "only the lower class seem to use it. " Please, you do not have a clue about what you are talking about. In NYC, everyone uses the subway. Fast and to the point. Just how many years has it been since you were in NYC? If you say less than 10 years then you are just either making things up or you were experiencing a very unusual time. I have never seen or been on a more encompassing subway.This is not personal because anyone who has been here or used the subway in the past decade knows how much things have changed. Plus, one fare and you can go anywhere. The Buss system is a fluid and maintained as it gets. Since a cab ride is just so ridiculous now, all New Yorkers are lucky to have this great system.

They are also initiating light rail in all of the other boroughs and those are integrated with subway and buss.

I do love the Tube. Nice stations. The difference that annoys me is that it charges by distance.

There are many new subway systems that are off the charts that most people do not even know about. Guongzhou and Shanghi have great subway transit and new. It is amazing what the Olympics does. Frankfurt Germany has a great one integrated with the light rail. Le Metro in Montreal and DC also. All are well integrated with their Bus systems and toad systems.

I have been fortunate to be in a business that I get to travel. I know there are many subways that I have never been on that just rock!
I was there six years ago. I remember a lot of the tunnels having 70's yellow tile, and a lot of it was falling off. I'm sure it is a great asset to New York and I know that the system is very extensive, and they've probably made a lot of improvements since then. In comparison to London though, there is no comparison when it comes to upkeep. I've never seen a more well maintained and constantly upgraded system. A lot of people may use the subway in New York, but I don't think it is as relied upon by every class of people as the London Tube system, which is why I think the Tube system is so well maintained. It may just be a cultural/political difference... London has the Labour party, which is very focused on public systems, whereas the U.S. has a more capitalistic mindset when it comes to transit.
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  #1657  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 6:20 PM
East2Westback East2Westback is offline
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Hmmmm....

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Originally Posted by DMTower View Post
I was there six years ago. I remember a lot of the tunnels having 70's yellow tile, and a lot of it was falling off. I'm sure it is a great asset to New York and I know that the system is very extensive, and they've probably made a lot of improvements since then. In comparison to London though, there is no comparison when it comes to upkeep. I've never seen a more well maintained and constantly upgraded system. A lot of people may use the subway in New York, but I don't think it is as relied upon by every class of people as the London Tube system, which is why I think the Tube system is so well maintained. It may just be a cultural/political difference... London has the Labour party, which is very focused on public systems, whereas the U.S. has a more capitalistic mindset when it comes to transit.
I have been to London twice this year and no doubt the Tube is as good as it gets but this does not change what you said.

"last time I was there the subway system was filthy and run down, and only the lower class seem to use it. All the upper class either have drivers or cab it. "

This relationship with the system NYC mass transit is how you judge a system? The lower class and upper class thing is WAY bizarre. I was not kidding EVERYONE uses the subway here. Yeah, if you are in a serious hurry you take a cab but that is not the norm for the 11 million immediate area. The Upper class have drivers or cab it? Uhhhh...you watch way too many movies.
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  #1658  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 7:19 PM
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What I said is only the lower class SEEM to use it, based upon my personal experience there... and I could understand why if that were the case. It was filthy. And like you said, maybe I was there at an unusual time. I think you are over dramatizing my original comment just a bit.
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  #1659  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 7:37 PM
East2Westback East2Westback is offline
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No...I live here...I know what it is like everyday...

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Originally Posted by DMTower View Post
What I said is only the lower class SEEM to use it, based upon my personal experience there... and I could understand why if that were the case. It was filthy. And like you said, maybe I was there at an unusual time. I think you are over dramatizing my original comment just a bit.
No...I live here...I know what it is like everyday... I love SLC and know it, I also love NYC and know it.

It was filthy????? How many stations were you in? What is your definition of filthy? Things are not meticulous when they are used. Those stations are cleaned everyday.

"Only the lower class use it." Wow!

What I am really wanting to know is what do you consider and how do you judge a "lower class" person? How do you know they are lower class people?
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  #1660  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 7:50 PM
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How does he know they are lower class? That's easy because they are riding the subway. And as pointed out only the lower class ride the subway so if they are riding the subway they must be lower class.
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