Rapid Transit

[SteelTown]

I rather see trolley service along Barton.

[adam]

Originally Posted by crhayes

LOL... I don't see one North American car in the whole picture.

I guess that's because the North American cars broke down before they could take the picture!

[omro]

Originally Posted by emge

Regarding the King/Main split, the RTH article was a good read and I see how it's worked there -- but as far as costs go, I don't see our city wanting to pitch in for the more expensive option at all.

Which is considered the more expensive option?
A Main/King split or two-way LRT on Main throughout the downtown?

[markbarbera]

A preliminary study done last year showed the King/Main split option woud be considerably more expensive than 2-way LRT on Main alone.

[emge]

The two sets of tracks (I'm guessing) is what makes it more expensive? Seems logical enough. I just assumed that was the case.

[omro]

Originally Posted by emge

The two sets of tracks (I'm guessing) is what makes it more expensive? Seems logical enough. I just assumed that was the case.

Me too, I would consider putting the two tracks together to be a cost saving option and a maintenance saving option.

However, logical and how a City's bureaucracy views something...

[markbarbera]

here is a link to last year's feasibility study

The study estimates the cost of constructing one-way LRT rail on a road at $15m/km, and the cost of placing both lanes on one road at $25m/km. The distance from University Plaza to Eastgate via Main Street is about 16km. The return trip via King is 17km. If LRT is run along Main alone, the cost of the rail construction would be about 16x$25m, or $400 million, while the cost of running the split lane concept would be 16x$15m + 17@$15m, or $495 million. So, running both lanes of LRT along Main is $95 million more cost effective.

[omro]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

here is a link to last year's feasibility study

The study estimates the cost of constructing one-way LRT rail on a road at $15m/km, and the cost of placing both lanes on one road at $25m/km. The distance from University Plaza to Eastgate via Main Street is about 16km. The return trip via King is 17km. If LRT is run along Main alone, the cost of the rail construction would be about 16x$25m, or $400 million, while the cost of running the split lane concept would be 16x$15m + 17@$15m, or $495 million. So, running both lanes of LRT along Main is $95 million more cost effective.

That might mean nothing if they feel that it's more effort to convert roads to two way or have a two-way LRT on Main as the thin end of the wedge.

[emge]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

here is a link to last year's feasibility study

The study estimates the cost of constructing one-way LRT rail on a road at $15m/km, and the cost of placing both lanes on one road at $25m/km. The distance from University Plaza to Eastgate via Main Street is about 16km. The return trip via King is 17km. If LRT is run along Main alone, the cost of the rail construction would be about 16x$25m, or $400 million, while the cost of running the split lane concept would be 16x$15m + 17@$15m, or $495 million. So, running both lanes of LRT along Main is $95 million more cost effective.

Thanks for that info. Good to have numbers to put to the concepts.

[SteelTown]

Tons of really interesting information on possible LRT for Hamilton here.....

Rapid Transit Corporate Working Team Workshop, Technical Advisory Committee and Corridor Property Owner Meetings
http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyre...r20PW09034.pdf

Interesting part is that according to that report 1 way LRT might be cheaper than 2 way LRT.

[SteelTown]

Hamilton's Rapid Transit Office will go ahead with standard track gauge (1.435 m). Other specifications:

Vehicle Weight (Empty, average) 41 000 kg
Vehicle Weight (Full, average) 63 000 kg
Single Vehicle Height (may vary according to pantograph height) 3.9 m
Single Vehicle Length (average) (constrained by intersection spacing) 28 m
Single Vehicle Width 2.65 m
Horizontal Vehicle Clearance (total) 1.0 m
Vertical Vehicle Clearance (minimum) 4 m
Ballast/Track Bed Depth (average) 0.74 m
Passengers (seated/standing, average) 60/130

It'll either be Bombardier Flexity Outlook or Siemens Combino Plus.

[omro]

I think the Bombardier rolling stock looks a little nicer. Personal opinion only.


Photo from flickr

Not sure if these are the same Bombardier trams as those mentioned above, however these are the trams in Nottingham and funnily enough that's the restaurant I had my goodbye dinner in when I went up to Nottingham to say bye to my colleagues after being made redundant. I saw several of these trams go past during the course of the meal. This street is also used by cars and buses.

BTW, the Nottingham tram system started off as one line and now has the green light, five years after the completion of the first line, for an expansion which will create an additional line and an extension to the original line.

BBC News

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Tons of really interesting information on possible LRT for Hamilton here.....

Rapid Transit Corporate Working Team Workshop, Technical Advisory Committee and Corridor Property Owner Meetings
http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyre...r20PW09034.pdf

Interesting part is that according to that report 1 way LRT might be cheaper than 2 way LRT.

This is a good read.

Steeltown, if you are referring to the costing detailed in table 1 of the report, please bear in mind this is referencing the cost to reconfigure subsurface infrastructure only (sewers, gas lines, water pipes) and not the overall cost for building the rail component. This is a small fraction of the overall cost for building the rail. The embedded track system is where 1-way LRT becomes significantly more expensive to lay than 2-way.

OMRO, I am with you . I prefer the Bombardier rolling stock as well. And I'd be happier if we would source a Canadian company for an infrastructure project like this.

[SteelTown]

When it comes to purchasing vechicles for public transit the city has a bylaw that it must be Canadian produced, hence New Flyer for the buses.

Do Siemens make their LRT in Canada? I know there's a few Siemens factories in Canada, even one in Hamilton.

Also from the report it looks like the Rapid Transit Office has ruled out any two way LRT on Main St. Narrowed down to two way LRT on King or one way LRT on King/Main.

From the report.....
Two options for the corridor segment between Paradise Road and the Delta

o Option A – convert both King Street and Main Street to two-way operation, with median LRT operation on King Street
o Option B – retain one-way operation with LRT in curb lane or in second lane
o Contra-flow schemes not recommended for safety reasons

[markbarbera]

The Combino is built in Krefeld-Uerdingen, Germany.

[omro]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

o Contra-flow schemes not recommended for safety reasons

What??

Two-way LRT is commonplace!

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

When it comes to purchasing vechicles for public transit the city has a bylaw that it must be Canadian produced, hence New Flyer for the buses.

Do Siemens make their LRT in Canada? I know there's a few Siemens factories in Canada, even one in Hamilton.

Also from the report it looks like the Rapid Transit Office has ruled out any two way LRT on Main St. Narrowed down to two way LRT on King or one way LRT on King/Main.

From the report.....
Two options for the corridor segment between Paradise Road and the Delta

o Option A – convert both King Street and Main Street to two-way operation, with median LRT operation on King Street
o Option B – retain one-way operation with LRT in curb lane or in second lane
o Contra-flow schemes not recommended for safety reasons

Siemens' plant for LRT cars is in San Diego. At least for the ones in Calgary and Edmonton.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

It'll either be Bombardier Flexity Outlook or Siemens Combino Plus.

Bombardier wins $1.3B deal to build Toronto streetcars

TORONTO — The Toronto Transit Commission has chosen Bombardier Inc. (TSX:BBD.B) for a contract worth more than $1.2 billion to supply 204 new streetcars.

The procurement recommendation from the staff of the country's largest transit authority envisages spending $993 million for the streetcars, plus $293.1 million for spare parts, options and other items, a total of $1.29 billion including taxes.

After GST rebates, the total expected cost is $1.22 billion.

Two companies were in the running to replace Toronto's aging streetcar fleet: Bombardier Transportation Canada, which has been making streetcars for decades in Thunder Bay, Ont., and Germany's Siemens.

Siemens had put forward a substantially higher bid -- $1.525 billion for the streetcars, or about 50 per cent more than the Bombardier bid.

Both companies had promised that at least one-quarter of the production work would be done in Canada.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...24?hub=Toronto

[Jon Dalton]

I've been on those streetcars and they're awesome. They aren't built in Canada though. I guess some of the parts will be built in Thunder Bay.

[crhayes]

That street car is very attractive... the concept for the inside is nice as well!