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  #6681  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2009, 2:31 AM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
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Originally Posted by ladowntowner View Post
^ Good, now we've established that you aren't completely delusional, even though that 15% is a tad optimistic.
If the "Park Fifth people" want to renovate Pershing Square, it means its not gonna happen, what with the lack of financing....
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  #6682  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2009, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Westsidelife View Post
More green space could come eventually...

New Civic Park Details Unveiled

March 13, 2009

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - Designers of the proposed 16-acre Civic Park, to rise on county-owned land stretching from the Music Center on Grand Avenue to City Hall on Spring Street, displayed their latest model during last Wednesday’s Downtown Los Angeles Neighborhood Council meeting.

The park, part of the Related Companies’ $3 billion, multi-phase Grand Avenue Project, has been in the works for years. Architects from Rios Clementi Hale Studios revealed two preliminary park designs last spring, but recently added some new details . . .
Hard to imagine after looking at some of those renders. There are still far too many problems with these park plans for it to have been worked on this long.

Still, at least the rest of the article gives some hope.
     
     
  #6683  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2009, 2:15 AM
yeah215 yeah215 is offline
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Grand Ave. Project

I have been thinking about the Grand Ave. Project. I know it's expensive but the park really needs to cover the entire central area in between First and Temple. Not only would this make the park significantly bigger, it would also bring it all the way out to the street. This park could easily become and significant place for the city. Likewise, a park covering the freeway would be wonderful. I think the civic center park would be more formal while the park over the freeway would include ball fields and play grounds.

There are significant problems with the courthouse and the Hall of Administration. That has already been put on the table. I would think there would be similar problems with the law library and the hall of records. Both of these are also older buildings. I remember the Hall of Records being a pit years ago, I don't know what it is like today. The other lot that has a building would be the criminal courthouse. This would undoubtedly be expensive to replace.

None of these building meet the current standards for governmental buildings. The criminal courthouse isn't set back from the street like modern sensitive buildings are.

I wouldn't mind some of the space being used for some key offices. But the large "block" buildings cut off the park from the rest of the neighborhood.

I would propose building new structures, that comply with the current standards. Looking at Google Maps, there seems to be a lot of space still in the Civic Center (or Civic Center adjacent). I think these new buildings may have large setbacks with wide tree-lined sidewalks. There may be some retail in the bottom, but not the density that you would see in the other parts of downtown. It would also be great if some of the ground floor space of these buildings could be used for the "retail" government services. That way, people don't need to go up into these buildings to pick up their permits or whatever. For example, a new courthouse may have a filing office on the first floor that also opens onto the street so all the people just dropping off documents don't need to go deep into the courthouse. This will provide some street activity and would be more convenient for those who need simple services.

I imagine the district to include other office and residential buildings that also comply with the same types of zoning standards. These buildings would be boxy and set back significantly from the street. The sidewalks would be very wide and include large trees. They would have large lobby spaces, but also have a retail component (probably no government offices on the first floor though).

I imagine all of these buildings be relatively short (about the 150' level). The district would extend toward Little Tokyo, toward the historic core, and perhaps across the freeway toward Union Station (this would be contingent on a park or a better way to connect the two sides.).

I imagine it look something like this, but with much wider sidewalks, that have trees and some street furniture separating the roadway from the sidewalk.








     
     
  #6684  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2009, 2:44 AM
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If this park doesn't work, there's always the LA State Historic Park...


From angelenic

It even has JDRCRASH's elevated walkway ()...


From angelenic
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  #6685  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2009, 3:34 AM
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^ Yeah, that looks good. I kind changed my mind for wanting one for Civic Park.
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  #6686  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2009, 4:55 AM
ladowntowner ladowntowner is offline
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I think the elevated walkway 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. What is it's purpose? It bisects the park with an ugly concrete barrier for no apparent reason. If it's designed to allow access from North Broadway over the Gold Line tracks, fine, but it doesn't have to travel across the whole park. It could terminate on the very western edge of the park just after crossing above the tracks and drop down a staircase there. Less expensive that way too.
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  #6687  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2009, 5:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ladowntowner View Post
I think the elevated walkway 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. What is it's purpose? It bisects the park with an ugly concrete barrier for no apparent reason. If it's designed to allow access from North Broadway over the Gold Line tracks, fine, but it doesn't have to travel across the whole park. It could terminate on the very western edge of the park just after crossing above the tracks and drop down a staircase there. Less expensive that way too.
Was there ever any doubt he would say something like this? Gotta love the direct approach.

I must say, after talking to some people in other cities forums...(cough..."Chicago"...cough)...they make us look downright polite to each other. Their moderators dont do much moderating, it seems.
As far as the park, I must agree with downtowner that it really serves no purpose other than to give some designer a bit of gravatis. the rest I actually kinda like.
What is in the location now...if I may ask?
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  #6688  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2009, 5:57 AM
ladowntowner ladowntowner is offline
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The rest of the renders for the LASHP are fine. Pretty nice actually. I like the water features towards the river end of the park. As for what is currently at the point of the elevated walkway in the render: nothing but open park land. A pretty bold statement by the persons responsible, if you ask me.
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  #6689  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2009, 7:45 AM
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Yeah, that concrete bridge needlessly adds more concrete to an overall great looking park. Don't know what JDR seems to like about it.
     
     
  #6690  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2009, 7:57 AM
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^ I doubt it's actually concrete, though.
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  #6691  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2009, 1:26 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
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Originally Posted by StethJeff View Post
Yeah, that concrete bridge needlessly adds more concrete to an overall great looking park. Don't know what JDR seems to like about it.
Look closer....you can see the legs of the pedestrians through the guard rails. Its definitely not fugly concrete....
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  #6692  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2009, 4:04 PM
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No matter what the material is, I hope they budget in the cost of cleaning all the inevitable tagging off of it on a monthly basis. Not worth it if you ask me... I like the park without the skyway just fine.
     
     
  #6693  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2009, 8:01 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
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So are any of you guys gonna try and get tickets to see Obama on Thursday?

Here is a link them: http://www.whitehouse.gov/latownhall/
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Edit: Never mind, they're all gone.
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Last edited by JDRCRASH; Mar 17, 2009 at 8:05 PM. Reason: late info
     
     
  #6694  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2009, 6:17 AM
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Originally Posted by LAsam View Post
No matter what the material is, I hope they budget in the cost of cleaning all the inevitable tagging off of it on a monthly basis. Not worth it if you ask me... I like the park without the skyway just fine.
One of my thoughts exactly. OK, let's say the guardrails are made of glass. How long do you think that glass will remain free from tagging (etched) by a bunch of moronic destructive 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵? No matter how beautiful when new (and of course we all know that I don't think it is to begin with) it will be an eyesore within a few short months unless maintained at enormous expense and frequent intervals.

Also, do you have any idea how many millions of birds are killed annually in North America alone by similar such glass structures when they fly straight into them at full speed? What a stupid idea (particularly for a park!!!) when it should be common knowledge amongst landscape architects.
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Last edited by ladowntowner; Mar 18, 2009 at 6:52 AM.
     
     
  #6695  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2009, 7:35 PM
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I don't think the skyway is as stupid as all of you do. I think it is helpful in tying the park together and helps connect the park to Broadway.
     
     
  #6696  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 2:08 AM
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Originally Posted by yeah215 View Post
I don't think the skyway is as stupid as all of you do. I think it is helpful in tying the park together and helps connect the park to Broadway.
As I said before, if all you wanted to do was connect the park to Broadway, a stairway up and over the Gold Line tracks that would terminate on the west side of the park without completely cutting across it is more than adequate. Same utility, less cost, less division of the park. How can something that is bisecting the park "tie it together" as you say?
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  #6697  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 8:18 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
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Originally Posted by ladowntowner View Post
Also, do you have any idea how many millions of birds are killed annually in North America alone by similar such glass structures when they fly straight into them at full speed? What a stupid idea (particularly for a park!!!) when it should be common knowledge amongst landscape architects.
I've heard of glass buildings causing problems for birds, but smaller structures, too? I'm not to certain about the credibility of that claim. Can you provide a link to an article about this? Appreciate it.
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  #6698  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2009, 3:32 AM
ladowntowner ladowntowner is offline
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
I've heard of glass buildings causing problems for birds, but smaller structures, too? I'm not to certain about the credibility of that claim. Can you provide a link to an article about this? Appreciate it.
This seems like it should be pretty intuitive, particularly in a park where one would expect (hope) to find a lot of birds enjoying the open space, but oh well, here goes:

"Lethal collisions are possible whenever and wherever birds and glass mutually occur, and the best predictor of the number of fatalities at any one site is the density of birds in the vicinity of windows." Link: http://www.awionline.org/pubs/Quarterly/04_53_4/534p4_5.htm

Or:

Glass wall killing refuge birds

Just two of thousands of similar references. Next time don't be so lazy. Apparently you've an internet connection and last I checked Google was a free service.

This is getting off-topic fast, sooooo back to downtown development!
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  #6699  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2009, 9:05 PM
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The Medallion is now up to the fifth floor.

I'll post pics this weekend.
     
     
  #6700  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2009, 9:12 PM
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That means it's close to topping out right? IIRC, it was redesigned to 6 stories...
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