CHICAGO | Waterview Tower | 1,047' Official / 1,035' Roof | 89 FLOORS |NEVER BUILT

[LucasS6]

Originally Posted by ChicagoChicago

Someone is going to take this thing off of a bankrupt Teng's hands if they don't build it. It has the foundation of a 90 Story building. The plans are there. Prior to last year, the hotel market supported a high end hotel. It will be built. I just hope Teng wises up and dumps the site and gives someone else a chance to produce Chicago's next supertall.

Obviously you feel this way, so my question to other, more knowledgeable posters- more knowledgeable than me, not you- is is this a legitimate assumption to hold? One would think that a foundation already built to support a supertall structure would be like a light for moths, once the economic situation comes around. If I'm a developer looking to build a supertall condo (or even just any tall condo) wouldn't this be the first place to look instead of strating from scratch?

It seems to me it's incredibly unlikely that a very tall building won't be going here in the near (5-8 years) future because the thing is damn near halfway done already. Is this a reasonable opinion to have? Why or why not?

[ChicagoChicago]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

And who exactly is gonna fill the shoes in this economy?

LMAO! Really? This building is in a Teng holding company's name, so in all likelihood they will allow it to foreclose if they don't build, especially given all the liens in place. A foreclosure would wipe all secondary (mechanics) liens out. If Teng tried to sell, all mechanics’s liens would need to be cleared before a sale could go though. I deal quite a bit with private equity partners, and they are always looking at great deals. I actually just met with a company in Florida that is buying up foreclosed property in California at pennies on the dollar and holding them. The point is, there is plenty of money out there. They might not be willing to build in this environment, but they are certainly willing to hold.

[harryc]

Looks better than a surface lot.


Moving sh..t out

[Ryan81]

I'm keeping hope, and in the meantime:

Original Image used for this composite was by Jibba at SSC:

[chrslyp]

Originally Posted by ChicagoChicago

LMAO! Really? This building is in a Teng holding company's name, so in all likelihood they will allow it to foreclose if they don't build, especially given all the liens in place. A foreclosure would wipe all secondary (mechanics) liens out. If Teng tried to sell, all mechanics’s liens would need to be cleared before a sale could go though. I deal quite a bit with private equity partners, and they are always looking at great deals. I actually just met with a company in Florida that is buying up foreclosed property in California at pennies on the dollar and holding them. The point is, there is plenty of money out there. They might not be willing to build in this environment, but they are certainly willing to hold.

i completely agree. although the economic environment has made continuing construction on this building in the near future unfeasible, there are plenty of people/firms out there that have a ton of money and can see the potential money to be made off a building like this. If you think about it, teng has already done most of the hard/grunt work like the entitlements and marketing, so when and if a developer eventually buys it out of foreclosure, or buys it from the firm who bought it out of foreclosure, i believe they have a relatively good shot at making this project profitable. could you imagine the publicity for the developer who gets to restart this project?

[Mojava]

Originally Posted by chrslyp

If you think about it, teng has already done most of the hard/grunt work like the entitlements and marketing, so when and if a developer eventually buys it out of foreclosure, or buys it from the firm who bought it out of foreclosure, i believe they have a relatively good shot at making this project profitable.

But all this "grunt work" was for the Shangri La/Waterview tower which in all practicality is dead. Permits expire and marketing will have to start from scratch assuming someone else buys them out. I'm quite certain all contracts on these units will be cancelled and deposit money will be returned. Who, in this market, will be purchasing high-end condos? Weath has been diminished dramatically even for the weathly.

[woodrow]

Could be like the Hearst Tower in NY. Started in 1928. Completed in 2006. HA!

[Steely Dan]

posts deleted

i would, like to remind people to keep their posts on topic. if you have a general statement about the economy or why you feel a certain administration might or might not be taking a correct course of action, it doesn't belong in this thread.

keep your posts on topic about waterview tower specifically or they will be removed. we don't need every single project and development thread devolving into a stupid political/economic bitchfest. leave that crap for other forums. everyone is well aware that the economy is in the shitter right now, there is no need to continue to point that out, and threads like this are not the place to discuss macro-level solutions.

[chi-arch]

Originally Posted by Mojava

But all this "grunt work" was for the Shangri La/Waterview tower which in all practicality is dead. Permits expire and marketing will have to start from scratch assuming someone else buys them out. I'm quite certain all contracts on these units will be cancelled and deposit money will be returned. Who, in this market, will be purchasing high-end condos? Weath has been diminished dramatically even for the weathly.

Correct. New architecture, new engineering, new permits, total do-over and the market has shifted dramatically.

[chrslyp]

Originally Posted by chi-arch

Correct. New architecture, new engineering, new permits, total do-over and the market has shifted dramatically.

i agree with what you're saying, however, when you compare waterview with a project that will be working completely from scratch, i believe, waterview (although different from originally planned) will have a leg up on the competition because so many people have already heard about it, or seen the building itself. bring in a reputable developer, who has a strong brand, and i believe the building can be very successful. and i'm not speaking as if this should happen in the next couple of months, but whenever the economy picks up.

and i understand about the permits, and all of that "grunt work" i mentioned, but more direct to my point, is i believe the most difficult part of developing a building, is the initial stage of marketing and selling the units. i believe, in the future, the marketing and selling of this building will be easier, given the fact that teng has already done so much. you guys see where i'm coming from?

i really wish we could be discussing the construction progress of waterview, maybe sometime soon...

[chi-arch]

^Unfortunately, we will have to wait to see what if anything will happen with the developers next move and as has been said this could be a very long wait. The PR department at Teng has never worked overtime on providing information so it will continue to be the waiting game unless pressure comes from some other sources like the current lender on the bridge loan or the City itself. With Shangri-La walking away and the project stalled for so long there is a general pall now over the project that even a new developer will have difficulty dealing with. This isn't to say that what's there must be scraped, but a new developer would certainly be challenged if they are to continue with a similar plan and expect to turn a profit.

[BVictor1]

I heard 6 months ago that this project could sit as is for 2 years. At that time, it was just a rumor, but now it seems to be a reality. This situtation isn't 100% Teng's fault; the markets crashed, banks halted lending and people and businesses found them selves. True, it was dumb for Teng to go into the condo-hotel business. There was competition from Trump and the Elysian, both which are closer to Michigan Avenue, a much more popular area than the Theatre District.

I do, however believe that Waterview is a good product. They floorplans were comfortable and laid out nicely. I do hope that this tower is eventually completed as designed architecturally. I don't care if it's Teng or another developer or bank or insurance company. Whomever! And when I say eventually completed, I'm not talking 10 years. I'm hoping construction resumes within the next 18 months.

We'll see how or if the economy recovers. That's key.

[lawfin]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

I heard 6 months ago that this project could sit as is for 2 years. At that time, it was just a rumor, but now it seems to be a reality. This situtation isn't 100% Teng's fault; the markets crashed, banks halted lending and people and businesses found them selves. True, it was dumb for Teng to go into the condo-hotel business. There was competition from Trump and the Elysian, both which are closer to Michigan Avenue, a much more popular area than the Theatre District.

I do, however believe that Waterview is a good product. They floorplans were comfortable and laid out nicely. I do hope that this tower is eventually completed as designed architecturally. I don't care if it's Teng or another developer or bank or insurance company. Whomever! And when I say eventually completed, I'm not talking 10 years. I'm hoping construction resumes within the next 18 months.

We'll see how or if the economy recovers. That's key.

I know you have been a big fan of this building.....but are you hanging your hope an anything substantive.

Is there a reason for the 18month time horizon ,other than it falls in line with you hearing it could sit idle for 2 years?

[chi-arch]

^That would place the completion of the project at between 9-10 years of when I first placed my deposit(July 2004).....wow

[howardroark]

Shangri-La dosen't have any cash to get this built? It's their first in the US. Hmmm..

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by lawfin

I know you have been a big fan of this building.....but are you hanging your hope an anything substantive.

Is there a reason for the 18month time horizon ,other than it falls in line with you hearing it could sit idle for 2 years?

It's hope that the 2 year idle rumor works into the 18 month time horizon. It's also hope that within the next 18 months the economy will turn around and that money will be flowing again.

[Chicago Shawn]

Originally Posted by chrslyp

i agree with what you're saying, however, when you compare waterview with a project that will be working completely from scratch, i believe, waterview (although different from originally planned) will have a leg up on the competition because so many people have already heard about it, or seen the building itself. bring in a reputable developer, who has a strong brand, and i believe the building can be very successful. and i'm not speaking as if this should happen in the next couple of months, but whenever the economy picks up.

and i understand about the permits, and all of that "grunt work" i mentioned, but more direct to my point, is i believe the most difficult part of developing a building, is the initial stage of marketing and selling the units. i believe, in the future, the marketing and selling of this building will be easier, given the fact that teng has already done so much. you guys see where i'm coming from?

i really wish we could be discussing the construction progress of waterview, maybe sometime soon...

This has happened before. The Grand Pier project was a 77 story condo tower and a ~20 story hotel that stopped in mid construction. The Fairbanks at Cityfront Center was built on top of the stalled structure, with a completely new design. The new developer even managed to change some of the parking garage space into soft lofts.

Waterview will be built in some way. It may or may not be what we wanted, but I do not expect to see this shell sit empty for more than 2 years (IMO) before some type of works starts on it. That is of course considering that the US economy does not go completely over the cliff by then.

[chrslyp]

Originally Posted by Chicago Shawn

This has happened before. The Grand Pier project was a 77 story condo tower and a ~20 story hotel that stopped in mid construction. The Fairbanks at Cityfront Center was built on top of the stalled structure, with a completely new design. The new developer even managed to change some of the parking garage space into soft lofts.

Waterview will be built in some way. It may or may not be what we wanted, but I do not expect to see this shell sit empty for more than 2 years (IMO) before some type of works starts on it. That is of course considering that the US economy does not go completely over the cliff by then.

that's interesting, i never knew that. not to get too off topic, but do you remember why the first project stalled?

ultimately, i do believe the tower will be finished sometime in the future, however, i think whoever does finish it, should keep the same design and layout. almost everything i've heard concerning the floorplans and overall design of the building was positive, so if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by chrslyp

that's interesting, i never knew that. not to get too off topic, but do you remember why the first project stalled?

ultimately, i do believe the tower will be finished sometime in the future, however, i think whoever does finish it, should keep the same design and layout. almost everything i've heard concerning the floorplans and overall design of the building was positive, so if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The developer of Grand Pier, Ray Chin was unable to get financing or he defaulted on a loan or something. The tower from what I recall never began marketing, I do remember that Lehman Brothers was involved somehow.

The floorplans and overall design as you mentioned weren't broke, but I don't know if they spent enough promoting/marketing the project either. Most people have no clue about this project.

IDEA: I wonder if it's been considered to drop trying to get a hotel operator on build out the section as rentals?

Just pulling ideas out of my ass here

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by howardroark

Shangri-La dosen't have any cash to get this built? It's their first in the US. Hmmm..

They're not the developer. . .

. . .