Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[arashi_1987]

Quoting from the archived thread:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster
I don't understand why cameron is not a planned station, there is plenty of low rise walk-up denisty on the coquitlam side and of course Shilouette right at Cameron Rd and N road. There are also a few underused strip malls right around the area that could easily be zoned for higher density residential, commercial or retail. It is rather close to Lougheed station, but in order to truly entice commuters it is sensible as anything north of Cameron is quite a walk to Lougheed.

Sorry I know some of you have already mentioned about Cameron Station in the other thread but...I need to say something.

Cameron Station has to be built, have any of those souls planning for this line walked up or down North Road? Nobody walks there, cuz that steep hill is almost a hike from Lougheed Station. It's so steep we almost need an escalator running the entire length...(that's right that might be a good proposal for North Road!!). Plus, there's going to be a major supermarket chain and lots of people moving into the high-rise there. Whoever took that station out has gotta think about it again.

It's also relatively near to the Cameron Rec Centre if you walk down Cameron Road, ahem.

Cameron station will be like how Patterson is with Metrotown and how Gilmore is with Brentwood (or even how Olympic Village station is with City Hall station, even athletes don't have to walk up Cambie to get to City Hall station, come on!).

Anyone want to help me formalize this to get this sent to Translink? Or is there someone reading this. Or anyone want to start a community action team or some petition to get Cameron Station back?

I feel cheated that they put a dozen stations up initially now they only plan to build 6-8 stations. And as a side note, no school along the Evergreen Line is no longer within walking distance to any station. They've already left out easy access for the 3 schools, Port Moody town centre (hospital, city hall, rec centres, condos, senior's facilities) on Guildford Way by going down Barnet. Now even Port Moody Secondary (bus riders/drivers will know how many school kids use the B-Line stop now), and the condos dwellers on North Road and Guildford are left out.

Sigh

[Metro-One]

I agree 100% This station and the one near Coquitlam Center are the extra two that should be added to the planned 6 stations, there is no need for a third station in Port Moody.

[arashi_1987]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I agree 100% This station and the one near Coquitlam Center are the extra two that should be added to the planned 6 stations, there is no need for a third station in Port Moody.

I hope they seriously consult people about this. If I don't see any consultations at the rec centres or in the malls soon I am heading out to that new shack in Coquitlam (oops I meant office).

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by arashi_1987

They've already left out easy access for the 3 schools, Port Moody town centre (hospital, city hall, rec centres, condos, senior's facilities) on Guildford Way by going down Barnet.

Three guesses on who you can blame for that one. At grade, near the tracks, was a request from Port Moody.

[touraccuracy]

i agree that guilford would be better (i went to all three schools on that block!) but i also think it should go right by the mall... it's a tough balance. what's the point of having the last little part raised? i actually feel the whole things should be raised for practicality... but at grade does fit into port moody a lot better.

[officedweller]

Yeah, I remember that Guildford Way was designed with a median for SkyTrain columns - but I think there may have been an issue with the curviness of teh route - not sure if that was operational or for station placement. There was also a question of proximity of schools to potential station sites (i.e. the "criminal" element). A Guildford route would have to turn south at Pintetree Way to hit the WCE Station (and made further northward expansion difficult - my guess is that the line will eventually expand towards Burke Mountain and Pitt Meadows will have a separate branch (like with the LRT plans) - although I don't know if a switch is being installed for a Pitt Meadows Branch.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah, I remember that Guildford Way was designed with a median for SkyTrain columns - but I think there may have been an issue with the curviness of teh route - not sure if that was operational or for station placement. There was also a question of proximity of schools to potential station sites (i.e. the "criminal" element). A Guildford route would have to turn south at Pintetree Way to hit the WCE Station (and made further northward expansion difficult - my guess is that the line will eventually expand towards Burke Mountain and Pitt Meadows will have a separate branch (like with the LRT plans) - although I don't know if a switch is being installed for a Pitt Meadows Branch.

I think it's possible actually. Station placement... there would've been probably one future station (between Eagleridge and Falcon) but there's lots of room there anyway. With our current alignment, we are forced to only expand the SkyTrain northwards (in the future) vs, Guildford Alignment, we would have more options of extending it south and/or east.

[crazyjoeda]

Why does this thread refer to the Evergreen Line as "Proposed"? Hasn't the line and its funding been approved?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by crazyjoeda

Why does this thread refer to the Evergreen Line as "Proposed"? Hasn't the line and its funding been approved?

Looking at my official "statuses" for developments, "approved" is not an option.

[amor de cosmos]

isn't it beyond approved? I thought the big news last week, with the opening of the project office, was that it's now u/c.

[nname]

Originally Posted by officedweller

my guess is that the line will eventually expand towards Burke Mountain and Pitt Meadows will have a separate branch (like with the LRT plans) - although I don't know if a switch is being installed for a Pitt Meadows Branch.

I don't know if the expansion toward Bruke Mountain is even possible. The climb from the Coquitlam side is pretty steep. I think the maximum grade that David Ave have between Shaughnessy and Oxford is around 12% (that section of the road rise about 50 to 60m in just 600m, with the steepest part right in the middle).

I think if they want to expand north, they can only build it up Westwood Plateau (the grade on Pinetree is not too steep, can probably build one partially elevated/trenched station with underground tail tracks) or in the river valley between Westwood Plateau and Bruke Mountain (which has nothing but single family houses there). In my opinion, it would be quite reasonable to build a station at the empty land north of David Avenue and south of Robson Dr (1.1km extension north), and stop there permanently.

[DKaz]

Maybe they should run it on Guildford, turn south towards Coquitlam Central Station, then allow for provisions for extension to PoCo and further east.

[SpongeG]

i thought the idea was to run it east into pitt meadows

[arashi_1987]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah, I remember that Guildford Way was designed with a median for SkyTrain columns - but I think there may have been an issue with the curviness of teh route - not sure if that was operational or for station placement. There was also a question of proximity of schools to potential station sites (i.e. the "criminal" element). A Guildford route would have to turn south at Pintetree Way to hit the WCE Station (and made further northward expansion difficult - my guess is that the line will eventually expand towards Burke Mountain and Pitt Meadows will have a separate branch (like with the LRT plans) - although I don't know if a switch is being installed for a Pitt Meadows Branch.

I know you're just point things out but...
1) If the 10-lane Port Mann can be built I have no idea why a curved road would pose a problem for skytrain guideways. Just think of all the curved stations (with very long platforms) that exist around the world, why can't this happen in Coquitlam?

2) Criminal element?! It's probably safer for school kids to walk to a station in 2 minutes than having to walk all the way down to Barnet Highway (who knows what criminals will be along the way there?). And if most people who live there probably go to Coquitlam Centre frequently, so if they are afraid of crime might as well just forget about the whole transit project.

3) I love expansions, don't get me wrong. But look at how many years it took for construction to start on this Evergreen Line (it hasn't actually started still, so wait and see). So what expansion into distant suburbia can we expect from Translink? Maybe in another 50 years. And I don't see how any expansion will be limited by going down Guildford Way.

**Well, as negative as I have been about the Barnet route, one way to think about this positively is that it might induce redevelopment along the Barnet stretch, which, combined with the existing and future developments along Guildford Way would allow for a high enough density to support a very frequent bus line that would sort of loop from Ioco <--> Guildford Way <--> Coquitlam Centre area <--> Barnet <--> Ioco to connect with Evergreen Line stations...Perhaps the 160 could detour along Guildford Way for the entire service day once the Ev-Line opens...

[deasine]

Originally Posted by arashi_1987

I know you're just point things out but...
1) If the 10-lane Port Mann can be built I have no idea why a curved road would pose a problem for skytrain guideways. Just think of all the curved stations (with very long platforms) that exist around the world, why can't this happen in Coquitlam?

That doesn't make it fully accessible to all passengers then. We have to keep in mind the disabled here and even the elderly. A huge gap on the platform isn't safe nor is it acceptable in modern day standards. Those systems you are talking about (with very long platforms) aren't accessible.

Originally Posted by arashi_1987

Criminal element?! It's probably safer for school kids to walk to a station in 2 minutes than having to walk all the way down to Barnet Highway (who knows what criminals will be along the way there?). And if most people who live there probably go to Coquitlam Centre frequently, so if they are afraid of crime might as well just forget about the whole transit project.

It's a matter of the lighting in the area. Go Google Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design CPTED.

Originally Posted by arashi_1987

I love expansions, don't get me wrong. But look at how many years it took for construction to start on this Evergreen Line (it hasn't actually started still, so wait and see). So what expansion into distant suburbia can we expect from Translink? Maybe in another 50 years. And I don't see how any expansion will be limited by going down Guildford Way.

No on'e said anything about limiting... >___>

[arashi_1987]

Originally Posted by deasine

That doesn't make it fully accessible to all passengers then. We have to keep in mind the disabled here and even the elderly. A huge gap on the platform isn't safe nor is it acceptable in modern day standards. Those systems you are talking about (with very long platforms) aren't accessible.

Given the length of trains we have here, there should be ways around this---why we have engineers

And I don't see why a station platform can't be built in a straight line even when it's going over a slightly curved road. No?

It's a matter of the lighting in the area. Go Google Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design CPTED.

Yes I am aware of this. What I am saying is that the crime (if there is any) will be either occurring near residences or near areas of activity that nearby residents frequent. So to me it doesn't make that much difference.

And, studies have been done regarding the correlation between transit and crime. I will not go into this since this will spark unneeded debate in this thread.

No on'e said anything about limiting... >___>

Okay, sorry i was reading too quickly. Just saying that Guildford or Barnet route shouldn't have any effects on future extensions (in the distant future). Comment withdrawn. My apologies.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by arashi_1987

Given the length of trains we have here, there should be ways around this---why we have engineers

And I don't see why a station platform can't be built in a straight line even when it's going over a slightly curved road. No?

No to your first comment. Don't make engineering sound as easy as you think. There's nothing wrong with a straight platform over a curved road, but your guideway is going to be very high and it's going to create that Millennium-Line like atmosphere, where Brentwood Town Centre is built overtop of the road. Essentially, you don't want it this to happen. This is why Richmond first wanted the Canada Line to be at-grade, then they shifted their guideway to one side of the road.

Originally Posted by arashi_1987

Yes I am aware of this. What I am saying is that the crime (if there is any) will be either occurring near residences or near areas of activity that nearby residents frequent. So to me it doesn't make that much difference.

And, studies have been done regarding the correlation between transit and crime. I will not go into this since this will spark unneeded debate in this thread.

To you. Again, it's a matter of safety. We are trying to make the Evergreen Line as integrated as possible. I don't like the fact that Port Moody wants the SkyTrain to be at-grade for most of the route through that city, but it's understandable. It's much cheaper anyways to put it at-grade along the ROW. The only problem is that may limit the expansion (double tracking) of the WCE, but presently, I still think there's enough room with this plan.

Originally Posted by arashi_1987

Okay, sorry i was reading too quickly. Just saying that Guildford or Barnet route shouldn't have any effects on future extensions (in the distant future). Comment withdrawn. My apologies.

[arashi_1987]

Originally Posted by deasine

No to your first comment. Don't make engineering sound as easy as you think. There's nothing wrong with a straight platform over a curved road, but your guideway is going to be very high and it's going to create that Millennium-Line like atmosphere, where Brentwood Town Centre is built overtop of the road. Essentially, you don't want it this to happen. This is why Richmond first wanted the Canada Line to be at-grade, then they shifted their guideway to one side of the road.

I am not trying to start an endless debate here but I took a look at the google map images and the 150m stretch of Guildford just east of Falcon is straight. East of Lansdowne is straight. East and West of Johnson is straight. And the rest of Guildford Way is pretty straight. I can probably still tell if a line is straight, if other objective eyes can take a look for me too. So if a straight platform still can't make it over these sections of straight roads, maybe the line is not straight engineering wise and I just can't be enlightened on that matter.

I can be ignored if I am just seen as making an absurd case here.

[touraccuracy]

I made a plan:

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=U...22.822428&spn=0.039755,0.109863&t=p&z=14

Dark blue = my plan
Light blue = room for expansion
Dark green = current plan
Light green = possible expansion of current plan

My plan is only half a km longer and the room for expansion is about is about 0.7 km longer, but with potential for much, much more than the current plan involves.

Please take a look and let me know what you think. I've lived in this neighbourhood (around Guildford and went to all three schools on it) for my entire life and think that I can offer some perspective.

I placed markers for ideal station locations too.

Problems with the current plan: it is heading in the wrong direction; rapid transit will never expand up Westwood Plateau or David St. They should focus on expansion to downtown Port Coqtuitlam at Shaughnessy instead. By placing a station at Douglas College, it is much too far from the new collection of highrises growing between city hall and the mall. The original plan also misses the Newport area by a block. Barnet in that strip is: a restaurant, destination retail (ex: paint), light industrial/warehousing, couple little ground floor offices/car places, and fast food joints.

Then again there's the argument that such a line would develop and improve Barnet. Guildford is all built out quite nicely, not a lot of room for improvement.

[SpongeG]

guildford in Coqutilam was planned with the idea of a future skytrain line running down the middle

anyone from coquitlam since the 80's has known of it

unfortunately the area developed a lot in the time since than and people were against that alignment

that whole newport are of port moody wasn't even imagined when it was thought out