CFL to Saskatoon?

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by mjpaul

so saskatoon wants to move the riders from regina.?


all i can say is...

Where did you hear that?

[mjpaul]

Originally Posted by SASKFTW

Where did you hear that?

saskftw- from the 1st post...i had to double check the date as i wondered if it were an April Fools joke.....but no.


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Saskatoon Rough Riders?
By David Kirton
Updated February 14, 2008 - 11:39am

Kent Smith-Windsor, the executive director of the Saskatoon and District Chamber of Commerce says he's spoken to the group of business people who are floating the idea of a 32 thousand seat football stadium in Saskatoon.

He confirms to News Talk Radio that there is a group that is at least talking about the idea.

Smith says the Chamber was approached during a break at an unrelated meeting.

He says the idea is in its very early stages.

Smith won't disclose who the group is, but he says he says it's the kind of people he would be excited about formulating a plan like this.

News Talk Radio's John Gormley says he has spoken to the group, who would like to move the Saskatchewan Roughriders to Saskatoon or would seek an expansion team with the CFL.

----

how could you move a community owned team anyway?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

Metro Vancouver has 2.5 times that amount of people as Saskatchewan. Without the Riders agreeing to split the season between Saskatoon and Regina, Surrey or Abbotsford have a better chance of landing a CFL team before Saskatoon.

though I do agree that the league should expand to Halifax (the Maritimes) and (potentially) Quebec City before a second team in BC or Saskatchewan is considered.

That number crunching you're attempting doesn't hold up. You haven't taken into account geographical realities or cultural affinity at all. Saskatoon has a far greater chance of landing a CFL team than either Surrey or Abbotsford.

Football fans in those 2 BC communities go to Lions games because of proximity. If Surrey got a team, you'd basically see those 6,000 Surrey fans go to their own team's games. Hardly anyone from Surrey forego Lions games because they live too far.

Abbotsford? Same deal, but that number is probably only 2,000. There are probably more people in Abbotsford who forego Lions games due to distance, but nothing approaching the corresponding number in Saskatoon. Saskatoon is football country and nowhere near Regina.

There might be 2,000 people tops from Saskatoon who make the journey to Regina for games. If Saskatoon is anywhere close to being the football town that Regina is, there are literally 25,000 football fans in Saskatoon who would go to games, but don't because of the distance to Regina.

Between Regina and Saskatoon there are way more people who would go to a CFL game than in all of the Lower Mainland.

[Ruckus]

Nice

They're really having fun with this one (AKA dreams)...

Originally Posted by mjpaul

saskftw- from the 1st post...i had to double check the date as i wondered if it were an April Fools joke.....but no.


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Saskatoon Rough Riders?
By David Kirton
Updated February 14, 2008 - 11:39am

Kent Smith-Windsor, the executive director of the Saskatoon and District Chamber of Commerce says he's spoken to the group of business people who are floating the idea of a 32 thousand seat football stadium in Saskatoon.

He confirms to News Talk Radio that there is a group that is at least talking about the idea.

Smith says the Chamber was approached during a break at an unrelated meeting.

He says the idea is in its very early stages.

Smith won't disclose who the group is, but he says he says it's the kind of people he would be excited about formulating a plan like this.

News Talk Radio's John Gormley says he has spoken to the group, who would like to move the Saskatchewan Roughriders to Saskatoon or would seek an expansion team with the CFL.

----

how could you move a community owned team anyway?

...money? debt? a mixture of the two? The possibilities are endless my friend!

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by isaidso

That number crunching you're attempting doesn't hold up. You haven't taken into account geographical realities or cultural affinity at all. Saskatoon has a far greater chance of landing a CFL team than either Surrey or Abbotsford.

Football fans in those 2 BC communities go to Lions games because of proximity. If Surrey got a team, you'd basically see those 6,000 Surrey fans go to their own team's games. Hardly anyone from Surrey forego Lions games because they live too far.

Abbotsford? Same deal, but that number is probably only 2,000. There are probably more people in Abbotsford who forego Lions games due to distance, but nothing approaching the corresponding number in Saskatoon. Saskatoon is football country and nowhere near Regina.

There might be 2,000 people tops from Saskatoon who make the journey to Regina for games. If Saskatoon is anywhere close to being the football town that Regina is, there are literally 25,000 football fans in Saskatoon who would go to games, but don't because of the distance to Regina.

Between Regina and Saskatoon there are way more people who would go to a CFL game than in all of the Lower Mainland.

A powerful statement, an extra kick with the 'all'. I'm not complainin'*

*Note* I know little with regards to demand for football.

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by isaidso

That number crunching you're attempting doesn't hold up. You haven't taken into account geographical realities or cultural affinity at all. Saskatoon has a far greater chance of landing a CFL team than either Surrey or Abbotsford.

Football fans in those 2 BC communities go to Lions games because of proximity. If Surrey got a team, you'd basically see those 6,000 Surrey fans go to their own team's games. Hardly anyone from Surrey forego Lions games because they live too far.

Abbotsford? Same deal, but that number is probably only 2,000. There are probably more people in Abbotsford who forego Lions games due to distance, but nothing approaching the corresponding number in Saskatoon. Saskatoon is football country and nowhere near Regina.

There might be 2,000 people tops from Saskatoon who make the journey to Regina for games. If Saskatoon is anywhere close to being the football town that Regina is, there are literally 25,000 football fans in Saskatoon who would go to games, but don't because of the distance to Regina.

Between Regina and Saskatoon there are way more people who would go to a CFL game than in all of the Lower Mainland.

Although your numbers are no doubt pulled out yur ass - you're proably right about the CFL and LM.

My experience is that most football fans under 40 in the LM (and VI) are mostly fans of NFL teams, not CFL teams. Seattle is so close.

Its Superbowl here, not Gray Cup

[Ruckus]

This article was posted in the 'The Future of the CFL' thread in the Canada forum and I thought it'd be worth posting here.

I'm also bullish on the next five years. Why? I say why not


Another CFL team in Saskatchewan?
UPDATED: 2009-02-28 03:11:06 MST
Calgary billionaire not just interested in Preds. He'd love to bring a football club to Saskatoon
By ERIC FRANCIS

Eight years ago, Brett Wilson prepared to die.

Diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer, the man who always had a plan suddenly didn't.

So he made one.

"It's certainly a humbling experience to sit down and write out what you expect your funeral to look like," said the 51-year-old Calgary entrepreneur, Dragon's Den panelist and budding sports mogul.

"Who the key people I wanted to be involved and what I wanted my kids to hear and say ... I wrote out part of my epitaph, too."

He then stood up, closed the book on death and focused on living. And while his never-ending list of business ventures continues to grow, so does his unquenchable thirst for sports and entertainment properties.

Making a splash last week by telling the Sun he has a handshake agreement to buy a piece of the Nashville Predators, the longtime investment banker is sure to turn more heads this week with his thoughts on adding a second CFL team in Saskatchewan.

"(CFL commissioner) Mark Cohon and I have had coffee a couple times and I love what he's trying to do in terms of building that brand, but Ottawa is too far away and Halifax doesn't make sense to me," said the native of North Battleford, Sask., when asked of interest in the CFL.

"But if they ever thought about letting Saskatoon have a team, I'd sure like to partner with the group that buys that. I know that would burn a few bridges in the north and south. The reality is the fan base in southern Saskatchewan is strong enough to support the 'Riders. Could it be divided and could a second team survive there? Oh, there'd be some kicking and squawking and screaming, but you know, once upon a time a group of scientists were certain the world was flat and they were proven wrong. I think it could be done."

That said, the University of Saskatchewan grad insists he isn't spending any time on the concept, which is completely believable given how little time the well-healed businessman, father, philanthropist and sports fan must have for anything.

Buying the biggest chunk of Derby County Football Club in England last year to go with his minor league baseball outfit in Jackson, Tenn., Wilson's ever-expanding empire also includes a partnership with Canadian country singer Beverley Mahood.

Wilson, who inquired about buying into both the Oilers and the Flames, has had a blast attending several Derby matches.

"Derby County has been a hilarious, fascinating, interesting run," said Wilson, who seeks only to be a part of the sports action, as opposed to running the teams. "If you want fun factor and excitement, I got it with that team."

Although gaining a reputation as one of the nation's most active entrepreneurs, he wants to be known for several other things, which he will outline when he shares his story at the Power Within seminar Tuesday at the Convention Centre, where he'll sub in for Michael Phelps alongside others like Martin Sheen and Mahood.

"I've had to re-prioritize my life. At one time, it would have been pretty obvious my top-ten priorities would have been business, money, business, wealth, money, business, business, business ... And the reason I was doing that was to provide for my family. How screwed up is that?," said Wilson, whose work ethic damaged his now-defunct marriage and his early relationship with his three kids.

"Kids don't care how many businesses you own. Now, my priorities are my health first, family second, friends third. Until you take care of the first three, what's the point of living?"

With a clean bill of health, the zestful investor now works tirelessly on that balance while accruing sports properties he calls "the fun stuff" and giving back to the community.

The economic downturn has done little to slow him down.

"The world is on sale right now," declared Wilson. "I don't have enough cash to do all the things I'd like to do right now, but I'm very bullish on what the next five years hold."

Suddenly, so might be the folks in Saskatoon.

[email protected]

Source

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

Although your numbers are no doubt pulled out yur ass - you're proably right about the CFL and LM.

My experience is that most football fans under 40 in the LM (and VI) are mostly fans of NFL teams, not CFL teams. Seattle is so close.

Its Superbowl here, not Gray Cup

It just doesn't make sense that the LM would have more CFL fans who would attend games than are currently going to Lions games. Conversely, the number in Regina and Saskatoon combined who would attend games is far greater than the 30,900 who show up at Mosaic. You're quite right that I'm not relying on independent data for the actual numbers I listed for Abbotsford, Surrey, and Saskatoon, however.

The under 40 affinity for the NFL is a common phenomenon throughout Canada. It's only natural that a league that is rising from near death is not going to resonate with the generation that just came up.

It's a shock when you tell them that Canadians used to look down upon the NFL and wouldn't give it the time of day. That the CFL was once the dominant pro gridiron league in the world and that football traces its roots to this country is also looked at in disbelief by the under 40 crowd. They've grown up looking at football through an American lens.

I suppose if it happened to pro football in Canada, it can happen to pro hockey in this country as well. The domestic culture has changed over the past 30 years due to the powerful cultural influence of another country, the USA. Maybe in another 30 years it will happen again. This coupled with continued strong immigration levels might see Canadians abandon the NHL the way they abandoned the CFL. It might sound preposterous, but know one thought the CFL would ever get abandoned for a foreign alternative either.

We have living proof that Canadians are capable of abandoning something that was culturally central to the country in a matter of one generation. I hope history doesn't repeat itself with hockey, but looking at how under 40s view the CFL today doesn't leave me feeling very optimistic that the NHL will always part of the culture here.

I see evidence of that already happening in Toronto everywhere. In huge swaths of the city people want soccer and cricket. Football and hockey? Not a chance. When the Leafs were in the NHL playoffs a few seasons back I remember looking at the reaction on Yonge Street to Leafs fans celebrating a win. The majority of people on the street didn't even know that hockey playoffs were occurring, didn't care, and looked at the sporadic revelers like they were 'weirdos'.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

Metro Vancouver has 2.5 times that amount of people as Saskatchewan. Without the Riders agreeing to split the season between Saskatoon and Regina, Surrey or Abbotsford have a better chance of landing a CFL team before Saskatoon.

I agree with you .. I find it crazy that BC only has one CFL team, when it has been shown that the CFL can do very well in the greater Vanvouver region.

I think the CFL must consider both Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland for possible expansion.

Beyond these possible 2 expansion locations in BC, I think that all the other possible expansion locations are East of Ontario, IMO. The CFL requires a stadium of over 25 - 30,000 people in order to have a chance of making any money, and that seems to be the major sticking point for all expansion markets.

[rrskylar]

20000 for a game in western Canada is called a poor turnout, in Montreal it's called a sellout, in Toronto it's called average attendance and in Hamilton a great crowd.

A second CFL team in the Lower Mainland would be as successful as a second NHL team in Phoenix.

[newflyer]

I think the greater Vancouver region is a much better CFL market than Pheonix is a hockey market.

BC place draws well .. and I think an outdoor stadium in Abbotsford would also do very well.

The Abbotsford Rams

.... it would also create a great local rivalry.

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Originally Posted by newflyer

I think the greater Vancouver region is a much better CFL market than Pheonix is a hockey market.

BC place draws well .. and I think an outdoor stadium in Abbotsford would also do very well.

The Abbotsford Rams

.... it would also create a great local rivalry.

BC Place does not draw well at all. The upper tier is closed most of the time and average attendance is around 32,000 per game and has been stable at that level for about three years. that may be good for now but not too long ago the average attendance was a mere 18,507 in 2002. Terrible for a stadium that holds 59,478 fans. Attendance has improved since the team has been performing better overall but if the team slips in performance you can bet the attendance will slip as well.

Considering a team in Abbotsford would be ridiculous

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by DAVEinEDMONTON

Considering a team in Abbotsford would be ridiculous

Yeah, the greater Vancouver area has over 2.5 million people, the Fraser Valley has around 300,000 people by itself, and there is a few hundred thousand more people within a short drive, why should Abbotsford be considered for a CFL team. How ridiculous!!

Take a good look at a map of the Lower Mainland.

The fact is BC is considerably larger than Alberta and yet it only has one CFL football team. Thats what is ridiculous.

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Originally Posted by newflyer

Yeah, the greater Vancouver area has over 2.5 million people, the Fraser Valley has around 300,000 people by itself, and there is a few hundred thousand more people within a short drive, why should Abbotsford be considered for a CFL team. How ridiculous!!

Take a good look at a map of the Lower Mainland.

The fact is BC is considerably larger than Alberta and yet it only has one CFL football team. Thats what is ridiculous.

All you have asserted is that there is more people in greater Vancouver so they should be able to support a second team. if that was the case then why not Toronto or Montreal both of which have more people than Vancouver?

The idea about Saskatoon is that it is a distinct city that may support a CFL team because it is distinct and would be competitive despite the fact that it has a small population base compared to other CFL cities.

On the surface, one might think that Abbotsford to Vancouver, may be somewhat like Hamilton is to Toronto. They are about the same distance away roughly but that is the only similarity. Hamilton is also a distinct vibrant city in its own right. Abbotsford, is truly only a working suburb of Vancouver and does not maintain a seperate soul or personality outside of the shadow of Vancouver. It truly looks to Vancouver to fulfill all its needs when it comes big city things such as entertainment, sports franchises etc. And I should know, I live here...

That is why a CFL team here would be a lost cause.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by newflyer

BC place draws well .. and I think an outdoor stadium in Abbotsford would also do very well.

The Abbotsford Rams

.... it would also create a great local rivalry.

The CMA of Abbotsford in 2006 was 159,020 and grew by 7.91% since the previous census in 2001. Abbotsford should definitely be on the radar, but the regional population including Abbotsford needs to grow to at least 500,000 first.

The CMA of Kelowna in 2006 was 162,000 and grew by 9.84% since the previous census of 2001. Abbotsford and Kelowna are of similar size, but Kelowna sits in a larger population catchment area than Abbotsford. There are 300,000+ in the Okanagan Valley including Kelowna and the entire valley's population is exploding.

If the trend line of the last 20 years continues, the Okanagan Valley with Kelowna as host city, should be ready for a CFL team by the 2030 season. It may seem like a long way off, but both Victoria and Saskatoon will probably be ready to join before that.

It may be overly ambitious, but adding Kelowna as the 8th western team by 2030 should be the goal. Add Victoria around 2015-2016, add Saskatoon 5 years later, then wait for Kelowna and hopefully Abbotsford after that.

As far as a 2nd Vancouver area team goes, I wouldn't want to split that market up till the Lions were consistently selling out BC Place Stadium. It's not like splitting Saskatchewan's fan base in half by adding a 2nd team, because the actual number of people who want to go to a game are already going to a game in Vancouver. In Regina, it maybe the province's team, but 90% of people in Saskatoon who would go to a game, don't due to distance.

Originally Posted by rrskylar

20000 for a game in western Canada is called a poor turnout, in Montreal it's called a sellout, in Toronto it's called average attendance and in Hamilton a great crowd.

I don't know where you found your data from, but it's way off. The CFL still boasts the 6th largest average crowds at games of any sports league in the world. It's higher than for soccer in France, Italy, or Spain.

2008 Average Attendance in the CFL

Toronto 29,189
Montreal 20,202 (always sold out, Molson Stadium being expanded to 25,000)
Hamilton 20,784

Winnipeg 27,191
BC 34,083
Edmonton 37,383
Saskatchewan 29,996
Calgary 32,538

Montreal could arguably lead the league in attendance if Molson Stadium was bigger. Winnipeg is hopefully getting a new stadium which will help boost numbers closer to 30,000. Really, the only problematic attendance figures are in Hamilton. Outside of southern Ontario, pro football does very well.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by DAVEinEDMONTON

All you have asserted is that there is more people in greater Vancouver so they should be able to support a second team. if that was the case then why not Toronto or Montreal both of which have more people than Vancouver?

The idea about Saskatoon is that it is a distinct city that may support a CFL team because it is distinct and would be competitive despite the fact that it has a small population base compared to other CFL cities.

On the surface, one might think that Abbotsford to Vancouver, may be somewhat like Hamilton is to Toronto. They are about the same distance away roughly but that is the only similarity. Hamilton is also a distinct vibrant city in its own right. Abbotsford, is truly only a working suburb of Vancouver and does not maintain a seperate soul or personality outside of the shadow of Vancouver. It truly looks to Vancouver to fulfill all its needs when it comes big city things such as entertainment, sports franchises etc. And I should know, I live here...

That is why a CFL team here would be a lost cause.

i agree that Abbotsford is a working suburb of Vancouver, which would mean that Vancouver money is in Abbotsford. in some sense, it makes Abbotsford a very attractive market to leagues like the CFL, the WHL, or even the AHL for potential expansion.

then we have Surrey, which is attempting to forming its own identity away from being Vancouver's largest suburb. a CFL team would definitely be a great addition to that mentality.

the only real thing either city is lacking is a stadium. though, the CFL could grant either city a conditional team pending construction of a stadium, either city could work out a deal with the Lions to share BC Place until a stadium is completed. Abbotsford or Surrey would create a local rivalry for the BC Lions, which would put fans asses in seats, and generate revenue for the league. a wise business decision all around.

Saskatchewan is the CFL's smallest populated market. if you factor in New Brunswick and PEI, even the market that would be served if Halifax or Moncton got a team would be larger than Saskatchewan. BC has 4.4 Million people, and the Lower Mainland has around 2.5 million people alone, so splitting that in half to support two CFL teams isn't that much of a stretch. and still that market is larger than Saskatchewan.

[newflyer]

While the chances of obtaining a second CFL franshise in Saskatchewan is little to none, I think Saskatoon should definately work hard at attracting a profesional sports team of another type.

Perhaps a baseball independant minor league team .. or a team in the ECHL. A city the size of Saskatoon is probibly large enough to support such team, but it needs to be driven by someone with money and/or power. Having a pro team would help generate more civic pride and create another attraction to draw people from other regions of the province to the city.

If Saskatoon does land a baseball team I think they should be call the "Berries'

[Ruckus]

CFL in Saskatoon: Pipe dream or possibility?
By Kevin Mitchell, The Star Phoenix March 4, 2009 Comments (12)

On football day in Saskatchewan, Highway 11 turns into a snaking stream of cars and trucks headed south to Regina -- people in watermelon headwear jockeying for position on the double lane with guys wearing DOMINGUEZ jerseys.

The Saskatchewan Roughriders, and the way they've forged ties with this province, are a genuine phenomenon. Saskatchewan's mood-swings follow the crops and the Roughriders, and not always in that order.

Which brings us to Calgary entrepreneur and home-grown Saskatchewan native Brett Wilson.

The 51-year-old billionaire sparked some discussion this week with his comments to the Calgary Sun's Eric Francis about Saskatoon and CFL franchises. Namely, Wilson says he'd be quick to kick in some ownership cash if the CFL ever decides Saskatoon merits its own team.

Wilson already has ownership stakes in the Derby County Football Club, an professional English soccer team, and the West Tenn Diamond Jaxx of minor-league baseball fame. He's also deep into discussions about buying a piece of the NHL's Nashville Predators.

And, as we've learned, he seems to have strong feelings about Saskatoon's ability to support CFL football.

". . . if they ever thought about letting Saskatoon have a team, I'd sure like to partner with the group that buys that," Wilson, a University of Saskatchewan alumnus, told the Sun. "I know that would burn a few bridges in the north and south. The reality is the fan base in southern Saskatchewan is strong enough to support the Riders. Could it be divided and could a second team survive there? Oh, there'd be some kicking and squawking and screaming, but you know, once upon a time a group of scientists were certain the world was flat and they were proven wrong. I think it could be done."

Wilson was quick to stress that he's not putting any energy into the idea. It's a whispy concept right now, built on clouds and dreams and what-ifs.

It's also a fun idea -- what would happen if Saskatoon landed a CFL franchise and went head-to-head against the Roughriders? I surveyed a variety of acquaintances Tuesday and came away with this conclusion: Everybody has an opinion, but those opinions diverge wildly.

At risk of getting branded a kicker, squawker and screamer, here's the take from here: As great as CFL football in Saskatoon would be, it won't happen in our lifetimes.

There's this little matter of building a CFL-calibre stadium, first of all -- $300 million or $400 million or $500 million or whatever the going cost is at the time, multiplied by all the angst and controversy that's sure to follow.

Then you'd have to convince the CFL that splitting the Saskatchewan market in half would be beneficial for the league.

Feasibility studies would be have to undertaken in regards to corporate support and the willingness of provincial companies to prop up both teams.

And there's the whole fan-support thing: If both teams play home games on any given Sunday, will they find 60,000 fans in Saskatchewan willing to pony up the cash to attend one or the other?

Saskatchewan folks love their football, but until a couple of years ago, they weren't always willing to support the Roughriders with their pocketbooks. They grumbled and cheered from afar while the team struggled to sell tickets. Those days are gone; the stands are full . . . but bandwagons are never built on permanence.

Generally speaking, I believe big-ticket items should be pursued hotly in this province. Regina should definitely build a domed stadium. Moose Jaw did the right thing by voting to build a new arena downtown. If a group of businessmen come up with a solid CFL plan for Saskatoon and a can't-miss blueprint, then they should go for it.

But realistically, this CFL-in-Saskatoon thing belongs in the fun-to-dream stage, because the logistics -- starting with the stadium and trickling down -- just don't work.

And, finally, there's this: What makes the Roughriders special, what rooted them deep into Saskatchewan soil, was that sense that they belong to the province. They wormed and dug into Saskatchewan's psyche for nearly a century, intertwined with the people who live here, whether it's Regina or Saskatoon or Lumsden or Prince Albert or Humboldt. A passionate love-hate relationship exists, sometimes rocky and sometimes smooth, but you know both parties genuinely care about the other.

We see that loyalty here at the paper every time we put a Roughriders' story on our website: The "heat map" that measures readership lights up at a rate rivaled only by stories about high-profile crimes and breaking news.

That bond between Saskatchewan and the Roughriders is a rare and precious thing, and it would be awfully tough -- and, possibly, tragic -- to fracture that with a fresh arrival.

[email protected]

© Copyright (c) The Star Phoenix

Source

[Migs]

Pipedream. CFL and the Riders won't let it happen in our lifetimes. I'm hoping this billionaire either puts some of his money towards the new stadium in Regina or brings a MLS or perhaps AHL team to Saskatoon which I think would be fantastic.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by Migs

Pipedream. CFL and the Riders won't let it happen in our lifetimes. I'm hoping this billionaire either puts some of his money towards the new stadium in Regina or brings a MLS or perhaps AHL team to Saskatoon which I think would be fantastic.

A lifetime? C'mon, seriously, you meant to say 10 years at most

A few posts back, isaidso made some convincing arguments in support of CFL expansion in Canada (Saskatchewan included).

Now, we'll need a no frills outdoor stadium. Hey, maybe Regina could ship us Mosaic (for a nominal charge) when they're done with her...a parting gift of sorts.