Central Waterfront District | Waterfront Station - CRAB Park

[racc]

The current plan is an embarrassment. They are building way to many roads when they should be building a large plaza by the water. The Granville Street extension will destroy the only decent plaza on the water downtown. Automobile access can take place via the below surface Waterfront Road. In addition, they only want to accommodate one additional rail platform in the future. Given current trends, the whole plan is incredibly short-sighted.

[SpongeG]

um the busses need roads to run

we don't need a plaza there either the land is more valuable being built out and built up with taxes coming in instead of a big waste of space

[LeftCoaster]

There is also a very large plaza at the new convention centre.

[flight_from_kamakura]

plus, there actually isn't even a plaza at this point, it's just a bunch of nothing. really, this land is essentially being reclamed.

[jlousa]

Actually there is Granville Square which is kinda of a hidden gem downtown, it would disappear with this plan, although I don't see how something similar couldn't be incorporated. Besides as Leftcoaster has mentioned the new plaza at VCCEP is much larger.

[officedweller]

They'll be demolishing half of the Granville Square elevated plaza for the Granville Street extension.
Agreed that there's already a lot of public space (Canada Place promenade, VECCP expansion plaza) in the area.

[fever]

There should be more platforms if Waterfront is going to become the intercity rail terminal. But if Pacific Central is going to be remain the terminal, the platforms shown in the diagram are enough.

Granville Square is a hidden turd. We have a lot of boring waterfront plazas and parks. We don't really need any more of those. We have few active waterfront areas, especially at night. Few people would be affected by noise at the foot of Granville, so maybe it's an opportunity for something that's noisy at night (or maybe it's too far removed from other active nodes or residential to attract anyone at night). I don't know.

I don't get the transit street... I don't get why it's called a transit street. It's a kiss-and-ride street, like the foot of Chesterfield at Lonsdale Quay.

[amor de cosmos]

a plaza nearby would be good for visitors who have just stepped outside after arriving on the canada line & want to get their bearings. better in a plaza than on a crowded busy sidewalk.

[mr.x]

FYI, the new Waterfront Station transit hub precinct does include a new plaza north of the transit concourse....i read somewhere that it could fit 5,000 people:

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

FYI, the new Waterfront Station transit hub precinct does include a new plaza north of the transit concourse....i read somewhere that it could fit 5,000 people:

We need MOOORREE TREES !!!

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by amor de cosmos

a plaza nearby would be good for visitors who have just stepped outside after arriving on the canada line & want to get their bearings. better in a plaza than on a crowded busy sidewalk.

That's why I'd rather see the concourse be one level rather than stepped down and with mezzanine overpasses. If it has clear sightlines,etc. it would be less confusing.

[jlousa]

my understanding is that 5000 person plaza would've been part of the the waterfront stadium plan and not of the waterfront hub plan. A 5000person plaza is quite large, in fact that is the same size as the one that's at VCCEP so you can see how much space would be needed.
I still find it a bit strange how the COV is going ahead with this at the same time that Translink has hired Steer Davis Gleave to work on their waterfront hub plan. Hopefully they are working hand in hand.

[zilfondel]

So do the Amtrak Cascades serve this station?

[Jared]

Currently, it serves the Pacific Central station, which is located by Main Street station a couple of kilometers away.

The long term plan as envisioned in the WSDOT report from 2006 shows either continuing service to Pacific Central, or making a new terminus in Surrey (at Scott Road), on the south side of the Fraser. Waterfront wasn't mentioned as a possibility, even though I personally think it would be a better location that Pacific Central.

Ultimately, I think it will come down to what the BC MoT (or whoever is in charge) decides to do, not what WSDOT assumes. If we decide to go with a Waterfront Terminus, I'm sure WSDOT would roll with it.

Ideally, I'd like a Waterfront Station and a Surrey Station, but then you'd have to have two customs facilities.

[Whalleyboy]

it would be cool to have both surrey and waterfront

[Pinion]

Are the railroad tracks that are currently in this spot not needed? The west coast express and skytrain (that goes several hundred feet past the waterfront platform before reversing direction) don't seem to be incorporated.

Why did the stadium have to be above the tracks but they can be demolished for this?

[jlousa]

The tracks aren't going anywhere as the Ports require them, there is no offical talk of moving the train station to Waterfront from Pacific Central.

[Locked In]

Originally Posted by racc

The current plan is an embarrassment. They are building way to many roads when they should be building a large plaza by the water. The Granville Street extension will destroy the only decent plaza on the water downtown.

I think that if you have a look at the conceptual plans for the 2008 open house, you'll see that City is planning to greatly improve the pedestrian realm surrounding waterfront station. In addition to extending the seawall through the area, there is a large amount of new public plaza and public open space. I'd expect to see this regardless of the final form of the hub. See http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/whitecaps/pdf/Board10_PublicRealm%20sm.pdf
Also, I agree with SpongeG and officedweller - this land would be much better used for commercial development, and there is a wealth of other public space along the north shore of the downtown peninsula (virtually everywhere west of here in fact...).

Originally Posted by Pinion

Why did the stadium have to be above the tracks but they can be demolished for this?

The hub is being constructed over the existing tracks. See page 2 of last year's open house materials (careful, it's a big file):
http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/whitecaps/pdf/Board5_ConceptPlanFinal%20sm.pdf

[racc]

Originally Posted by Locked In

I think that if you have a look at the conceptual plans for the 2008 open house, you'll see that City is planning to greatly improve the pedestrian realm surrounding waterfront station. In addition to extending the seawall through the area, there is a large amount of new public plaza and public open space. I'd expect to see this regardless of the final form of the hub.

The slavish attachment to the grid and putting roads everywhere is creating a really boring city. We need some variety. The extension of Waterfront Road is not needed. All needed access can come from other streets. This whole area should be pedestrian space. Vancouver has no large public squares downtown. This a great opportunity to create one. Waterfront space is too precious to waste on parking for tour buses ( I assume that is still the excuse for extending Waterfront Road). I actually like Granville Plaza. It could use some restaurants on it though. Why not just make it larger and add some potential for businesses on it.

[SpongeG]

no the busses would be transit busses creating a downtown bus loop i believe not tourist busses

that area isn't that interesting anyway - the most interesting waterfront is to the west and there is a nice long sidewalk planned along the waterfront to make it easier than it is now to get to the west - as it is now its hard to navigate unless you know the ins and outs and shorts cuts

roads and traffic are just as much urban fabric as pedestrians are