Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed - Page 60

Whalleyboy · #**1181** Posted **Feb 28, 2009, 7:30 AM**

i cam across these
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/evergreen_line/docs/2009OTP0039-000247.pdf

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/evergreen_line/docs/EG_ProjectUpdate_Feb19.pdf

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/evergreen_line/docs/Evergreen_Postcard_Feb19.pdf

they use the skytrain picture like the canada line picture lol

Mac Write · #**1182** Posted **Feb 28, 2009, 7:34 AM**

I thought it was announced in 98. Ya probably did start in 99 (I was one of the lucky few to walk the tunnel purely by accident).

Metro-One · #**1183** Posted **Feb 28, 2009, 8:01 AM**

They better build 8 stations off the bat, not six. One between Lougheed and Burquitlam would be a good idea, it is along gap between the two and that stretch is perfect for commercial and dense residential developments (some of which is already occurring).

nname · #**1184** Posted **Feb 28, 2009, 8:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

They better build 8 stations off the bat, not six. One between Lougheed and Burquitlam would be a good idea, it is along gap between the two and that stretch is perfect for commercial and dense residential developments (some of which is already occurring).

Unfortunately, that would most likely be the 9th station. Other than the 6 listed, the other 2 are most likely Lincoln and somewhere near the portal in Port Moody.

hollywoodnorth · #**1185** Posted **Feb 28, 2009, 2:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname

Unfortunately, that would most likely be the 9th station. Other than the 6 listed, the other 2 are most likely Lincoln and somewhere near the portal in Port Moody.

I would think FALCON is a possible station.

Jared · #**1186** Posted **Feb 28, 2009, 7:59 PM**

The ridership modeling PTV did that was posted a while back assumed 8 stations including Lougheed. The two stations that were in that study but missing from here are Lincoln and Queens.

Lincoln: Definately should be built right away, it's right in front of the Mall, and can serve as the main station for the expansion of Coquitlam City Centre. The City Hall/Douglas station could then be placed on the Northwest Corner of Pinetree and Guildford, there's just a parking lot there right now (for a swimming pool I think).

Queens: My hunch is that this would be the least used of the three potential Port Moody station, since it would likely only attrach people in the immediate area. PMC would get cross over with WCE traffic, and Ioco would serve all the high density development just to the North.

-----------------------------

Stations from LRT era that were axed:

Cameron: I've had a bit of a change of heart about this once recently. It's pretty close to Lougheed mall, but given the density built/planned, it may be worth it anyways. It would be expensive to build in the median though, but cheaper on the side of the road. Burnaby really wants this station, so I'd offer them a deal: We'll build/make future provisions for it if you let the guideway run up the western side of North Road rather than in the centre.

4th Port Moody Station: No thanks, three serves the area well enough IMO.

Falcon: It's not really all that far from Ioco, although without it, I think people in between Falcon and Lansdowne are going to have to take a bus to get to the station. Note that the conceptual LRT drawings on the first page of this thread actually shows the station at Lansdowne. However, given that half of this area is parking lots, I don't think the station would really be busy enough to justify its existence. Who knows, it may get built anyway, due to the station name.

Sort of like how the final station on the Millenium Line is located between Glen St. and Clark St.

4th Pinetree Way station: Again, not really needed. Essentially, they would be splitting CityHall/Douglas into two stations; one right at Guildford, and one right at Douglas. Convinient, but not really nessecary, it's a 300m or so walk from a station on the north side of Guildford to Douglas College, those students can handle it; heck, some classrooms at UBC manage to be 600-700m from the Bus loop.

----------

Personally, I'd keep the core stations, throw in Lincoln, build one of Queens or Cameron, and have the other as a future station.

LeftCoaster · #**1187** Posted **Feb 28, 2009, 9:22 PM**

I don't understand why cameron is not a planned station, there is plenty of low rise walk-up denisty on the coquitlam side and of course Shilouette right at Cameron Rd and N road. There are also a few underused strip malls right around the area that could easily be zoned for higher density residential, commercial or retail. It is rather close to Lougheed station, but in order to truly entice commuters it is sensible as anything north of Cameron is quite a walk to Lougheed.

racc · #**1188** Posted **Feb 28, 2009, 9:42 PM**

It is better off with fewer stations and more concentrated development around those stations. A critical mass of development around a station can create enough density of housing, shops and services that people can walk instead of drive. If you look at the existing lines, there are many stations without much going on around them. Especially now that the bubble is over, it is going to take longer for development to take place around stations, so might as well focus the development.

More stations just increases travel times and construction costs and probably results in lower ridership.

amor de cosmos · #**1189** Posted **Feb 28, 2009, 10:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by racc

It is better off with fewer stations and more concentrated development around those stations. A critical mass of development around a station can create enough density of housing, shops and services that people can walk instead of drive. If you look at the existing lines, there are many stations without much going on around them. Especially now that the bubble is over, it is going to take longer for development to take place around stations, so might as well focus the development.

More stations just increases travel times and construction costs and probably results in lower ridership.

according to Richard Gilbert, former Toronto city councillor & past president of the Canadian Urban Inst, 40000 people living or working within 600m of a station will cover the capital & operating costs over a 35-year period. That's ~143 people/acre or ~353 people/hectare. That's in Toronto anyway. I don't know what it would be in the Vancouver area.

Quote:

Feb. 28, 2009
Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure
TransLink

PROJECT OFFICE OPENING LAUNCHES EVERGREEN LINE

COQUITLAM – Construction of the Evergreen Line is taking a major step forward with the opening of the Evergreen Line Project Office, announced Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Kevin Falcon, federal Canadian Heritage and Official Languages Minister James Moore and TransLink CEO Tom Prendergast today.

“The Evergreen Line will vastly improve transit options for people in Metro Vancouver’s northeast quadrant,” said Falcon. “It will also be a big boost to the region’s economy, providing over 8,000 direct and indirect jobs.”

“The Evergreen Sky Train extension will improve the quality of life of Tri-City residents by creating more transportation choices, cutting traffic, and by reducing pollution,” said Moore. “Our government is proud to be a partner in this project.”

Using SkyTrain technology, the 11-kilometre Evergreen Line will link neighbourhoods in Burnaby, Port Moody and Coquitlam and be fully integrated into the existing system, connecting directly onto the Millennium Line at Lougheed Station.

“Not only is the Tri-Cities area growing, we know that it’s the destination for a third of the commuters that today drive across the Port Mann Bridge from the South of Fraser,” said Prendergast. “The Evergreen Line, linking to a new RapidBus service from Highway 1 at the Lougheed Station, has huge potential to attract substantial numbers of people from cars to rapid transit.”

The Evergreen Line will provide fast and frequent service to downtown Vancouver – improving the transit network throughout Metro Vancouver and facilitating economic growth and regional job creation.

The Project Office will advance the Evergreen Line Project through design and construction and will provide the public with the opportunity to learn more about the project, meet with staff, and give feedback and input as design and construction proceeds.

Construction of the Evergreen Line is scheduled to begin in late 2010 and be completed in late 2014.

The Evergreen Line is jointly funded by the Government of Canada (up to $416.7 million), the Government of British Columbia ($410 million) and TransLink ($400 million). Approximately $350 million of the federal contribution is from the Building Canada Fund. The $1.4-billion project is a key component of the Provincial Transit Plan.

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2005-2009/2009TRAN0018-000260.htm

according to Tri-City News, it's at the Coquitlam transit centre at Coquitlam Centre Mall

Jared · #**1190** Posted **Mar 1, 2009, 12:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by racc

It is better off with fewer stations and more concentrated development around those stations. A critical mass of development around a station can create enough density of housing, shops and services that people can walk instead of drive. If you look at the existing lines, there are many stations without much going on around them. Especially now that the bubble is over, it is going to take longer for development to take place around stations, so might as well focus the development.

More stations just increases travel times and construction costs and probably results in lower ridership.

I think you need to try and strike a correct balance. SkyTrain isn't a local bus, but it isn't a commuter rail either. Obviously, it doesn't make sense to build stations every 250 meters, but at the same time, you want to try and provide almost everyone living along the line with a reasonable walk to the train; as sson as you start taking out too many stations, the access time needed to get to the station begins to cancel out the time savings of the faster train trip.

In the case of Cameron Station, the thing is that they are already beginning to do what you say should be happening in order to warrant a station. I know there probably wont be any more towers built in the next few years, but remember, it's still 5.5 years before this line will open; a lot can be built between now and then, even if nothing gets built for the next 2-3 years. While Corrigan can be pompous and ignorant at times WRT transit, under his watch, Burnaby has done a hell of a job building TOD.

Cameron and Lougheed would simply be similar to Patterson and Metrotown, or Gilmore and Brentwood. After you reach a critical mass of people, it makes sense to build the station, because the total time savings to those people will more than cancel out the extra 30 seconds of travel time for the people already on the train.

officedweller · #**1191** Posted **Mar 1, 2009, 1:36 AM**

Agreed that it makes sense for a Town Centre to have two stations.
Subject to the guideway being on one side of the road (so as to make it cheaper to build and plan for), Cameron would be a good future station.
Lincoln makes sense too, but Coquitlam Central Station, if built in the middle of the WCE parking lot, could provide easy access to Coquitlam Mall and would add incentive for the mall to build out to the lot line sooner rather than later (think Yorkdale in Toronto). The Coquitlam Town Centre/City Hall Station would probably have to be built a bit further south though to make the gap more walkable.

"Falcon Station" was a station on the PMC Line (under the NDP). It was changed to Lansdowne Station when the line was converted to LRT (under Translink, but with a Liberal highways minister named Falcon). There is probably development potential along Barnet Highway.

Does Port Moody need a station at the west end of town?

BTW - remember these allignment / stations TransLink Board reports for the former PMC Line posted by nname a while back (one shows the future Falcon Station, shows Lincoln Station, but no Cameron Station (Cameron could have just been an LRT add-on)).

Recommends elevated down the centre of North Road. Burnaby wanted centre line, Coquitlam wanted west side.
http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_f..._N_Rd_PreferredAlign-PMdyCoqSkyTrain.pdf

Wonky preferred Burquitlam Portal - Elevated Station east side of Clarke, transition over to West side of Clarke for portal(?!):
http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_f...dyCoq-PrfrdOptionBurquitlam-Aberdeen.pdf

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_f...03-16_3-2_PtMdyCoq-PtMdyPortalOption.pdf

This report says 3 stations on PineTree Way is operationally disruptive because of the close spacing and recommends 2 stations:
http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_f...pmc_coquitlam_pinetree_final_report2.pdf

nname · #**1192** Posted **Mar 1, 2009, 3:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

Agreed that it makes sense for a Town Centre to have two stations.
Subject to the guideway being on one side of the road (so as to make it cheaper to build and plan for), Cameron would be a good future station.
Lincoln makes sense too, but Coquitlam Central Station, if built in the middle of the WCE parking lot, could provide easy access to Coquitlam Mall and would add incentive for the mall to build out to the lot line sooner rather than later (think Yorkdale in Toronto). The Coquitlam Town Centre/City Hall Station would probably have to be built a bit further south though to make the gap more walkable.

From the documents, Morguard (the owner of Coquitlam Centre Mall) was willing to provide free land for guideway and station as well as 3 millions cash toward construction if Lincoln station were to be built. I wonder if this is still the case.

The gap between Coq Central (assuming its near WCE station) and Lincoln is ~750m, and between Lincoln and Douglas (assuming its near Town Centre Blvd) is ~800m. But I think Lincoln station would be well used even if the stations are so close together. From my own observation, right now there is actually more people boarding/disembarking at Lincoln compared to Coquitlam Station for the 97 all day and for the community shuttles outside of peak hours. Now imagine if the station is integrated into the mall (which is definitely possible as the mall only need to expand NE for about 50-75m), the ridership would be much higher. To get to Coquitlam station from the mall, the mall need to expand south for about 150-200m plus a 50m pedestrian overpass across Barnet plus a walk of 100m in the parking lot (right now it takes me about 5~7min to run/walk from the mall to the bus loop).

Btw, a new website: http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/

officedweller · #**1193** Posted **Mar 1, 2009, 8:44 AM**

Interesting. RTPO 2000 never could get agreement with Ivanhoe Cambridge (I think?) for Brentwood and Lougheed Malls. Mind you, I wouldn't want the station to veer towards the mall - I'd rather see the station along the side of the street and the mall build out to the station - its' better for the (future) pedestrian street environment.

van-island · #**1194** Posted **Mar 1, 2009, 9:52 PM**

I find it a bit shameful that every time there is a major project like this, the BC government sets up a project office and basically runs the show.

What the hell is TransLink there for? Is it TransLink employees working at the project office, or are staff being duplicated by MoTI?

mr.x · #**1195** Posted **Mar 1, 2009, 10:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by van-island

I find it a bit shameful that every time there is a major project like this, the BC government sets up a project office and basically runs the show.

What the hell is TransLink there for? Is it TransLink employees working at the project office, or are staff being duplicated by MoTI?

Well, a lot has changed since the 2007 reconfiguration of Translink, which is now basically an extension of the Ministry of Transportation. But technically, it is still Translink running the show for the Evergreen.

ravman · #**1196** Posted **Mar 1, 2009, 10:11 PM**

i like how the reports was done before terror entered the BC leg in 2001... i assume this will form the foundation for this project. the fact of the matter is clear, we are seeing this and the PMB pushed forward 2 months before an election.... Back when the Canada Line was agreed upon by Translink, they also wanted this line to be done as well.

also they tried to get an arragnment for Lougheed Mall... the owner was playing bull so the prov govt (NDP) played hard ball and placed the station where it is right now... it was supposed to be closer to the mall, but the mall wanted an extra parkinglot building or something.... the then Prov govt ( NDP) did not see this as being in the public's interest and that is why they put the station where it currently is and thus saving taxpayers money

racc · #**1197** Posted **Mar 1, 2009, 10:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared

In the case of Cameron Station, the thing is that they are already beginning to do what you say should be happening in order to warrant a station. I know there probably wont be any more towers built in the next few years, but remember, it's still 5.5 years before this line will open; a lot can be built between now and then, even if nothing gets built for the next 2-3 years. While Corrigan can be pompous and ignorant at times WRT transit, under his watch, Burnaby has done a hell of a job building TOD.

Cameron and Lougheed would simply be similar to Patterson and Metrotown, or Gilmore and Brentwood. After you reach a critical mass of people, it makes sense to build the station, because the total time savings to those people will more than cancel out the extra 30 seconds of travel time for the people already on the train.

With too many stations, there is no focus for development. The reality is that SkyTrain functions as regional rail with the average trip length being over 10km. There is no point in adding a lot of stations. The TOD in Burnaby is getting very spread out. If there was only one station near Brentwood, the development would have been focused around that station and thus been more pedestrian friendly instead of being strung out along Lougheed which is a crappy place to walk.

There are several stations along the lines which should have probably be left off. They increase travel times, decrease the capacity of the system (fewer trips per hour per car) and increase the capital and operating costs of the system. If you want stations close together, it would be better to supplement the SkyTrain system with a street car system for local access.