Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Franky

Somebody wrote it didn't matter. The guy at the open house said the mining starts after the tunnel is bored, so it's not "impossible", it may not even be difficult to C&C the stations after the tunnel bore. Are air shafts dug before or after tunnel bore?

Well for the mining, that's for sure. You can't mine something without a tunnel in place. Shafts are usually dug before too. It all depends on the size.

Here was a mined station in MTL, before it collapsed... it was changed to stacked cut and cover. (I still don't understand why nobody is talking about stacked tunnels, it's less to dig!).

http://www.metrodemontreal.com/green/deleglise/history.html

[Franky]

Oh, here's one for Suzie. Someone at the meeting said extending the first phase to tunney's instead of Bayview made no sense and followed up with allegations that doing so locked us out of the carling route.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Franky

Oh, here's one for Suzie. Someone at the meeting said extending the first phase to tunney's instead of Bayview made no sense and followed up with allegations that doing so locked us out of the carling route.

I had also thought that. Why build beyond Bayview before we know for certain the western route? This all part of the predetermined agenda that we are following.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I had also thought that. Why build beyond Bayview before we know for certain the western route? This all part of the predetermined agenda that we are following.

They denied it of course and claimed Tunney's was an important destination for east-enders. "What about west-enders?" He asked. "well, we have to balance..." hmm.

They should share that section of transitway with buses so that instead of forcing a transfer, west end buses could go directly to the core until a transfer is forced further down the line. I still think Carling is a better route if we are locked in to LRT. What a mess.

Or what would be wrong with a local bus from Bayview that drops you off right at the door of Tunney's buildings?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Franky

Oh, here's one for Suzie. Someone at the meeting said extending the first phase to tunney's instead of Bayview made no sense and followed up with allegations that doing so locked us out of the carling route.

That is the point, path dependence. If you want a plan to be a success force future councils to follow the path you have set.

A forced transfer in the west end will create the political pressure for full LRT build out much sooner than can be put in any official plan.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

That is the point, path dependence. If you want a plan to be a success force future councils to follow the path you have set.

A forced transfer in the west end will create the political pressure for full LRT build out much sooner than can be put in any official plan.

This is all well and good when you have a definite plan but we are still studying options. In that case, it is plain stupid to start committing ourselves to a specific course of action, which may backfire.

[Richard Eade]

So what if Tunneys was just a point on the route?



In this case, every train comes from downtown (the east) and goes to Tunneys. Then it switches tracks and heads back west, but every second train goes south from Bayview. The others simply go straight back through downtown.

Trains from the south all interline and head west to Tunneys. Then they switch tracks and proceed directly downtown.

Tunneys is no longer a wasted station no matter which western route is chosen.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

So what if Tunneys was just a point on the route?



In this case, every train comes from downtown (the east) and goes to Tunneys. Then it switches tracks and heads back west, but every second train goes south from Bayview. The others simply go straight back through downtown.

Trains from the south all interline and head west to Tunneys. Then they switch tracks and proceed directly downtown.

Tunneys is no longer a wasted station no matter which western route is chosen.

So you travel backwards for part of your journey?

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Franky

So you travel backwards for part of your journey?

You have got to be joking.

There is no such thing as "backwards" with self-propelled passenger rail vehicles because they are bi-directional.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

That is the point, path dependence. If you want a plan to be a success force future councils to follow the path you have set.

Kind of like what the Transitway did...

Nearly every attempt in later years to get light rail running was shot down because it supposedly wouldn't work with the BRT network. It took the firing of Ian Stacey in the late 90s by RMOC Chair Chiarelli just to force the bureaucracy to accept the O-Train.

Path dependency is all very well if you've got a semi-reasonable overall plan, but in Ottawa we've not had many of these.

A forced transfer in the west end will create the political pressure for full LRT build out much sooner than can be put in any official plan.

We could have had that anyway if that particular option had been the recommended one. It was an option on the table, it just wasn't recommended by City staff and therefore didn't go through. Not that I'm all that worried yet - we'll have to update the TMP again (in 2012/13) at least once before the tunnel is completed and since the planning studies are going to start this year there's still a fair chance it'll find its way into the first phase of construction. It's just that the likely route has been essentially pre-determined, for better or for worse.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Dado

You have got to be joking.

There is no such thing as "backwards" with self-propelled passenger rail vehicles because they are bi-directional.

If I'm sitting in the direction of travel from kanata say, and the LRV gets crowded so I can't change seats, I'LL BE TRAVELLING BACKWARDS. Many people get nausea when travelling backwards.

Travelling backwards is another problem our billion dollar boondoggle will cause.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Franky

If I'm sitting in the direction of travel from kanata say, and the LRV gets crowded so I can't change seats, I'LL BE TRAVELLING BACKWARDS. Many people get nausea when travelling backwards.

Travelling backwards is another problem our billion dollar boondoggle will cause.

OMG, sérieusement là, arrête d'écrire des niaiseries. Ça fait pu de sens. Je connais pas un métro où tout le monde sont assis dans le même sens, à part les tramways à Toronto. Eille, si t'as mal au coeur, tu changeras de place avec kekun d'autre, franchement là.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

OMG, sérieusement là, arrête d'écrire des niaiseries. Ça fait pu de sens. Je connais pas un métro où tout le monde sont assis dans le même sens, à part les tramways à Toronto. Eille, si t'as mal au coeur, tu changeras de place avec kekun d'autre, franchement là.

We currently have no buses with backward facing seats.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Franky

We currently have no buses with backward facing seats.

Actually, we do.

Also, a lot of seats on the O-Train face backwards. Like, half of them.

[eemy]

Almost every rail rapid transit system will have half the seats facing 'backward'. It makes quite a bit of sense - what else will they do at the end of the line?

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Actually, we do.

Also, a lot of seats on the O-Train face backwards. Like, half of them.

Really? Which buses? O-train is like, not a bus, it's a train.

I understand why the seat arrangement is the way it is on trains, they can't just drive around the block like buses can.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

http://www.octranspo.com/about_index.asp?lang=E&page=DFLEET_FLEET

The Nova Buses have seats that face the opposite way.

[Ottawade]

Originally Posted by Franky

Travelling backwards is another problem our billion dollar boondoggle will cause.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Franky

If I'm sitting in the direction of travel from kanata say, and the LRV gets crowded so I can't change seats, I'LL BE TRAVELLING BACKWARDS. Many people get nausea when travelling backwards.

I'm sure on balance more people get nauseous from the ride of the buses than from travelling backwards on a train.

I guess you'd best stop promoting PRT because those gondola-style PRT vehicles going in at Heathrow (ULTra) have backward facing seats and look to be bi-directional as well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ULTra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ULTra_001.jpg

Travelling backwards is another problem our billion dollar boondoggle will cause.

You do realize that this was only a suggestion by Richard, one that probably won't even happen anyway because the last time this idea surfaced - as one of the more inexpensive ways of getting LRVs out of Walkley Yard in the N-S LRT to head south to the end of the line - it was rejected as being too complicated, and that was without any passengers being present. So really, nothing to worry about.

[Rathgrith]

Originally Posted by Dado

There is no such thing as "backwards" with self-propelled passenger rail vehicles because they are bi-directional.

Hehehehe. Its just like a bi-sexual, they go both ways.