Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I forgot to mention I really like those town homes, great niche they are hitting with those.

Nice design and I think it will blend fairly well with the neighborhood.

Totally! I don't think they're too small or too tall. I think they are just right.
Not to say I don't LOVE them but I would prefer a more Victorianesque style of architecture but that would make the area a little homogeneous.


I do love the style, it's really interesting....

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Actually there still is a demand for class A office space in Downtown. Although 222 South Main Street is about to come online, the 23 and 24th floor of the Wells Fargo building will be converted from event space to office space very soon.

I think companies are understanding the clout and credibility that comes with having their business located in a downtown high-rise instead of in some office park. I'm betting it's especially helpful when it comes to employing the young "millennial" workforce.

Originally Posted by jmonkey

Urban Logic, a minor correction. The vacancy numbers you posted are for Salt Lake County, not Salt Lake City. I've seen numbers before that also give the vacancy rate in the CBD, or in Salt Lake City, versus the county as a whole. A couple of years ago, the difference was impressive, as in SLC was in the low single digits. Salt Lake City was in the middle of a very tight office market, at least until the recession hit.

Ok, so the info I gave earlier was for those cities' metro areas. I can't find any info for down town, but here is a breakdown of SL County 4th Quarter 2008 stats:

SL County 4Q 2008 Office Vacancy by Class:

Class A- 11.2%
Class B/C - 14.9%
Overall - 13.3%

So, Futuremayor, if what you said is true (8% is full occupancy), then 13.3% for the county really isn't that bad.

[Urban_logic]

Ok, so here is a report for the ovrall county stats and the down town submarket:

As Utah continues to out-perform the national economy, the Salt Lake office market is holding its own. The recent expansion in infrastructure, including the transportation system, is causing significant national companies to take a look at the Salt Lake market. Oracle and eBay have both selected Utah as a place for expansion for data centers. The combined investment from both companies will be close to $500 million dollars during the next few years.

The overall office vacancy rate jumped slightly more than two percentage points from year-end 2007, settling at 12.95 percent. This is the highest vacancy rate the market has experienced since 2004. Salt Lake City’s central business district (CBD) remains the strongest submarket, showing a decrease in vacancy, with Class A space at a 4 percent vacancy rate. The reduction in vacancy in the CBD can be attributed in part to the growth of financial institutions and industrial loan charters, and the expansion of several major law firms.

Overall asking lease rates in the office market continue to move upward fueled by owners of existing buildings maneuvering to shrink the lease rate disparity between their product and that of new construction. The average asking lease rate across the market moved upward by 1.8 percent in 2008. Although actual asking lease rates have increased in the past year, the effective rates tenants are paying has decreased as landlords have begun to offer lease concessions.

There were 12 new office buildings added to the Salt Lake office market during 2008. These buildings added an additional 1.064 million square feet of new office space. This amount is on par with the 10-year average, but significantly lower than the record high 1.53 million added in 2007. Expect another decrease in construction, with just more than 500,000 square feet of new office product being delivered in 2009.

The Utah market should continue to out-perform the rest of the nation during the coming year. The on-going City Creek project and the construction of the new 222 Main office building will inject $1.8 billion in construction into the economy during the next few years. These projects will add not only construction jobs to the market, but will bring additional, much-needed Class A office space to the CBD.

http://www.westernrebusiness.com/articles/FEB09/highlight1.html

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by Urban_logic

Ok, so the info I gave earlier was for those cities' metro areas. I can't find any info for down town, but here is a breakdown of SL County 4th Quarter 2008 stats:

SL County 4Q 2008 Office Vacancy by Class:

Class A- 11.2%
Class B/C - 14.9%
Overall - 13.3%

So, Futuremayor, if what you said is true (8% is full occupancy), then 13.3% for the county really isn't that bad.

Yeah, but 13.3% vs. 4% is a significant difference and does show that downtown slc is more capable then the "burbs" to absorb additional office space from additional development. It also indicates that even though we are in a recession DT SLC maybe one of the only sensible places to build towers right now, I think that if anyone nationally or locally is looking to develop our CBD is the perfect place and like I said earlier if downtown SLC is doing this good now just imagine when the recession is over

Also with the CBD vacancy rates DECLINING we are going to emerge in a wonderful position for downtown development.
I think that the Boyer Co. should start investing in that Rio Grande looking office tower.

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

I think we've officially let the Utah Restaurants thread die, and I didn't want to post this in the new Irrelevant Utah Topics Yell at Each Other About Mormonism Thread.....

I'm sorry about that! I am enforcing my respect rule and have changed the subject back to weather. I'm hoping it will go better from here (if not, I will be forced to remove comments. muhahaha )

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

Yeah, but 13.3% vs. 4% is a significant difference and does show that downtown slc is more capable then the "burbs" to absorb additional office space from additional development. It also indicates that even though we are in a recession DT SLC maybe one of the only sensible places to build towers right now, I think that if anyone nationally or locally is looking to develop our CBD is the perfect place and like I said earlier if downtown SLC is doing this good now just imagine when the recession is over

Also with the CBD vacancy rates DECLINING we are going to emerge in a wonderful position for downtown development.
I think that the Boyer Co. should start investing in that Rio Grande looking office tower.

You are right that that is a significant difference. That does not "show that downtown slc is more capable then the "burbs" to absorb additional office space from additional development" at all. Yes, it does right now, but not in general. You do know about economic cycles, right? The SLC commercial market will cool off at some point. It is most fortunate and an exciting oportunity to build up our down town right now while it is doing so well. Just don't assume that things will always be like this. Remember that one could have said the same thing about Vegas residential real-estate a few years ago during the residential real-estate boom. I'm sure SLC won't go off that kinda of cliff, but it will cool off sooner or later. Then it will go full-circle and go back up again.

[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

Boyer Co. should start investing in that Rio Grande looking office tower.

Rio Grande looking office tower?

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Rio Grande looking office tower?

I was thinking the same thing

Maybe he's talking about the Rio Grand station being converted into office space? If so, I would totally object to that! That building is a classic!

[arkhitektor]

I think he meant this thing at the Gateway:



Someone said that it looked like the Rio Grande depot at one point.

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

I think he meant this thing at the Gateway:



Someone said that it looked like the Rio Grande depot at one point.

Oh, ok!! That makes more sense!

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by Urban_logic

You are right that that is a significant difference. That does not "show that downtown slc is more capable then the "burbs" to absorb additional office space from additional development" at all. Yes, it does right now, but not in general. You do know about economic cycles, right? The SLC commercial market will cool off at some point. It is most fortunate and an exciting oportunity to build up our down town right now while it is doing so well. Just don't assume that things will always be like this. Remember that one could have said the same thing about Vegas residential real-estate a few years ago during the residential real-estate boom. I'm sure SLC won't go off that kinda of cliff, but it will cool off sooner or later. Then it will go full-circle and go back up again.

Oh, yeah for sure. I know that it will not always be this way but right now there should be no prosceneum in Sandy but probably two or three of these projects in the city right now. The city can take it right now and it has the infrastructure and Sandy does not.
but SLC will always be above the burbs in development and right now IS MORE CAPABLE then the burs in absorbing office space. The mere fact that office space is declining indicates that, and just to add again I know that is cyclical.

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

Oh, yeah for sure. I know that it will not always be this way but right now there should be no prosceneum in Sandy but probably two or three of these projects in the city right now. The city can take it right now and it has the infrastructure and Sandy does not.
but SLC will always be above the burbs in development and right now IS MORE CAPABLE then the burs in absorbing office space. The mere fact that office space is declining indicates that, and just to add again I know that is cyclical.

I'm not saying the Proscenium should be built now. Did I say that? I just want it built - even if it's 10 years from now. Even if it is scaled down and the theatre is removed, I still want the project. While SLC is doing so well, there should be more investment there. Then when the market in Sandy picks up, then the Proscenium should be built. I'm not trying to rain on your parade or anything, I'm proud of/excited for SLC as well! You make it sound as if this is a competition or something. I support investment and growth for our entire region as a whole, not just SLC exclusively. SLC should team up with its suburbs, not compete with them (and vice versa).

Now we can build up SLC while we have the opportunity

Btw, since SLC is so great and capable of absorbing office space, then why do you guys complain about/fear the suburbs "steeling our office space" so much? I'm telling you, we're nothing to be scared of.....BOO!!

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by Urban_logic

I'm not saying the Proscenium should be built now. Did I say that? I just want it built - even if it's 10 years from now. Even if it is scaled down and the theatre is removed, I still want the project. While SLC is doing so well, there should be more investment there. Then when the market in Sandy picks up, then the Proscenium should be built. I'm not trying to rain on your parade or anything, I'm proud of/excited for SLC as well! You make it sound as if this is a competition or something. I support investment and growth for our entire region as a whole, not just SLC exclusively. SLC should team up with its suburbs, not compete with them (and vice versa).

Now we can build up SLC while we have the opportunity

Btw, since SLC is so great and capable of absorbing office space, then why do you guys complain about/fear the suburbs "steeling our office space" so much? I'm telling you, we're nothing to be scared of.....BOO!!

I think it's cause of the fact that there is so much development outside of the CBD that is lying empty. at seventeen percent vacancy rates we could take one out of every eight projects built in the "burbs" and put it in SLC and that would solve the issue of too little in the city too much in the "Burbs". and I think the proceneum has a lot to do with that as well.
I agree with you one the symbiotic relationship between the cities of the valley. I think as a whole we need to develop our suburbs like the south western corner of the valley, very dense with a lot of condos and apartments but not let the burbs supersede the city.

I just wish the mind set of densly populated suburbs was around when Sandy, T-ville and Kerns were being developed. Those places are a mess.

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

I just wish the mind set of densly populated suburbs was around when Sandy, T-ville and Kerns were being developed. Those places are a mess.

I wouldn't say they are a complete disaster - I've seen worse. But they most certainly could have been built a lot better. It was a good wake-up-call for cities like Riverton, S/W Jordan, and Harriman. You can see in the building styles of West Jordan the shift from the sprawl mentality to the dense mentality as you move westward. Fortunately, West Jordan was only half the size it is now when it was in its sprawl phase. Now just about every development I see has much smaller yards and some sort of dense project integrated into it.

I love this idea! You have 4 or 8 houses to 1 driveway - they are still fully seperated houses, not condos. That way you feel like you are in a house, but you don't take up as much land:



Then you have these funky quad-plexes:



Then there are always the traditional apartment complexes:



Dense houses with smaller yards:





And then ther is always Daybreak:



And of course, our fair city center not too far away:

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

the 23 and 24th floor of the Wells Fargo building will be converted from event space to office space very soon.

Nooooooooooooooooo!
Really? Where did you hear this? That sucks. Those floors should stay as event space.

[Zionide]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Nooooooooooooooooo!
Really? Where did you hear this? That sucks. Those floors should stay as event space.

Though their website (http://www.23rdfloor.net) still doesn't reflect it, it's true. The last event there was the Oscar Night America fundraiser last Sunday.

They were rarely booked and just got lost among the many other event sites available in SLC. Other than the views (which are reason enough in my mind for it to survive, but apparently not), nothing about the space was particularly noteworthy: the food, service, amenities, etc.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by Zionide

Though their website (http://www.23rdfloor.net) still doesn't reflect it, it's true. The last event there was the Oscar Night America fundraiser last Sunday.

They were rarely booked and just got lost among the many other event sites available in SLC. Other than the views (which are reason enough in my mind for it to survive, but apparently not), nothing about the space was particularly noteworthy: the food, service, amenities, etc.

That's a shame. I enjoyed going to some of those events up there and looking at the killer views.
Well there's always the Sky Bar I guess.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

I think he meant this thing at the Gateway:



Someone said that it looked like the Rio Grande depot at one point.

Yeah, that was me... Gateway Six is one of my favorite pending projects downtown. I can't wait to see this beautiful baby rise and take it's place at the north end of Gateway. It will make an awesome siteline at the north end of the street.

.

[delts145]

Music: New venue opening its doors Downtown
The State Room, owned by longtime local promoters, to open April 1.


Club owners Chris Mautz, left, and Darin Piccoli at their new live music venue, at 638 S. State St. in Salt Lake City, that will be called The State Room. (Rick Egan/The Salt Lake Tribune)


Club owners Chris Mautz, left, and Darin Piccoli at their new club, The State Room. (Rick Egan/The Salt Lake Tribune)


Club owner Chris Mautz looks over plans for the new live music venue, at 638 S. State St. in Salt Lake City, that will be called The State Room. (Rick Egan/The Salt Lake Tribune)

by David Burger
The Salt Lake Tribune

The State Room, a new music venue, is scheduled to open April 1 on busy State Street in downtown Salt Lake City, a few doors down from the popular Bar Deluxe and a few blocks from the equally popular Burts Tiki Lounge.

Guess it makes sense that one anagram for the venue's name might be A Test Room.

After all, opening a 299-capacity, 3,500-square-foot venue at 638 S. State St., inside the former Children's Theatre of Salt Lake, might be considered a test in any economic climate, but even more so in a recession.

Co-owners Darin Piccoli and Chris Mautz, longtime local music promoters, think the market is ready for more live music, despite recent closures, such as the summer shuttering of west downtown's The Palladium. "Saturation is the last thing this town has," Piccoli said. Piccoli, 36, books talent for Snowbird's summer concert series and the Utah Arts Festival, while Mautz, 38, books musicians for Red Butte Garden's summer concert season.

If anyone has displayed a recent sensibility for knowing whom an audience will buy tickets to hear, it's this pair. Piccoli and Mautz booked Kingsbury Hall's successful shows of Los Lobos and Return to Forever in the past year, while Mautz booked last summer's calendar at Red Butte, where nine of the 14 shows sold out.

"The economic climate should give anyone pause," Mautz said. "We've very conscious of the economic picture. But the State Room has its place, for sure."

Mautz conceived leasing a concert space about a year ago, as he was walking out of a meeting at The Bayou, another club that offers live music directly across the street from the State Room. Mautz saw an available sign posted at the theater, which has been dormant since the winter of 2007.

Like Piccoli, his friend of 10 years, Mautz had thought about creating his own place for years. "I wasn't ready to do this five years ago," Mautz said.

After booking and promoting Utah shows since the 1990s, they believe they know what makes an audience-satisfying experience. The two have developed a business model geared toward busy adults who want to see live music but are loath to go to a show -- especially on weeknights -- where the artist goes onstage near midnight. Mautz and Piccoli say the musicians will start performing at the announced show time so that people can be home at a reasonable hour. "We find it difficult to rally people our age at 10:30 p.m. on a Tuesday," Piccoli said.

Cultivating an audience, much like what is happening at Red Butte, is the aim. Unlike some of its neighboring clubs, The State Room will only be open on show nights, and then only between September and May, with 60 to 80 shows a year. "We're not doing this six to seven days a week," Piccoli said. "We don't want to be bar owners," Mautz added.

Concessions will be available in the lobby, while inside the venue, concertgoers will have different seating options, ranging from pews to fixed seating to cabaret tables.

Mautz wouldn't say how much the pair has invested in the place, which they are leasing. "It's in the tens of thousands, but not the hundreds of thousands," he said.

Charlie Newman, booker of talent at Bar Deluxe, hadn't heard about the new business but speculated that audiences might lose with the competition of another local music venue. "I just hope bidding doesn't go out of control," he said. "I'm worried about ticket prices going through the roof."



The State Room
638 S. State St., Salt Lake City.

Tickets go on sale March 1 at 10 a.m. at www.thestateroomslc.com. For information, call 801-501-2885.

Upcoming concerts:

April 1 » Stanley Clarke, $38

April 8 » Jason Isbell and the 400 Unit with Justin Townes Earle, $17

April 18 » Brandi Carlisle with Angel Taylor, $35

April 30 » Richard Buckner, $15

May 17 » The Flatlanders, $35

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by Urban_logic

I love this idea! You have 4 or 8 houses to 1 driveway - they are still fully seperated houses, not condos. That way you feel like you are in a house, but you don't take up as much land:

The company I work for built these cluster homes you showed in W. Jordan.
The main problem I had with them was that everybody's front yard was their neighbor's driveway and there were no houses that actually faced the street:



We've since taken essentially the same plans, re-oriented the houses to the street and dressed up the architecture for a new community in W. Valley City.
Same density and land use, but a much better neighborhood as a result: