City vision op-ed

[highdensitysprawl]

This City Planner fellow, Miguelez, should be on SSP

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion...313/story.html

Great article, I just skimmed it...haven't read it all. The devil is in the details on things like this. I love the optimism that this can all work...however, unfortunately we live in a City of NIMBY's and nay-sayers.

[Acajack]

Who knows? Maybe he already is...

[Ryersonian]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Who knows? Maybe he already is...

I'm sure there are lots of planners on here...

[Acajack]

Personally, I am far from being an urban planner.

Anyway, Alain Miguelez’s vision for Ottawa is quite compelling and obviously the fruit of lots of experience both studying and travelling the world’s great cities.

[harls]

Hmm.. sounds familiar, that guy...

[Dado]

I'm not sure I'm too keen on his desire to sink rapid transit users into tunnels here, there, and everywhere. He wants to bring back Union Station (good!) but then suggests putting the tracks leading to it into a tunnel. Why should car users on Nicholas, who are mainly paying attention to each other, be in the sunlight and able to see Parliament Hill but train users should not? We should be reserving our best views for those arriving by the most responsible form of transportation.

On the Experimental Farm, I agree with taking one block of depth along Carling (funny he said nothing about the Civic Hospital...?) but don't agree with relocating the farm itself to the Greenbelt. It's where it is so that agricultural research can be carried out without fear of affecting or being affected by crops in neighbouring fields.

I'm not sure he's thought out his idea to move the Museum of Science and Technology to the corner of Montreal and St. Laurent. Just how does he plan to move all those locomotives in the train shed? By road on a flat-bed trailer? What a final indignity for those machines that were once the moving force of our economy. A far better location is at Bayview or LeBreton Flats, which is still rail-accessible, or on the Quebec side at Chaudière making use of some of the former pulp and paper mills, which are also still rail-accessible.

[Rathgrith]

Originally Posted by Dado

I'm not sure I'm too keen on his desire to sink rapid transit users into tunnels here, there, and everywhere. He wants to bring back Union Station (good!) but then suggests putting the tracks leading to it into a tunnel. Why should car users on Nicholas, who are mainly paying attention to each other, be in the sunlight and able to see Parliament Hill but train users should not? We should be reserving our best views for those arriving by the most responsible form of transportation.

Whoa, who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? There is no space left for trains to enter downtown and I highly doubt that the NCC and Parks Canada will sell back the land that CP and Grand Trunk used until the 1950s to have trains ride into Union. Its better to work with what we have now and let the Ottawa Train Station (which should be renamed to something more imaginative) serve as an intercity hub, with a link running downtown. For me, Union should be turned into a transit hub, like Kings Cross in London. There is no what that Via train will be able to run downtown underground. Running diesel trains underground requires ventilation and I doubt that I will see electrician any time soon.

I agree that the Science and Tech Museum should remain where it is as any locomotive that would go on display need a railway to get it there. And it seems like a waste of money to move them just so tourists and residents can ride a subway there.

[Kitchissippi]

Great ideas, but it's always a bit unfortunate to give out specific solutions wholesale one after another. It's a bit like Lotto 6/49 — it's easy to pick winning numbers but it is really hard to come up with the winning combination. As Dado demonstrates, there is a danger that good ideas become negated by ones that others might find questionable or unfeasible. As a result, the truly good ideas get lost in the arguments against the other ones. This is one of the reasons why I feel that any rapid transit plan should steer clear of suggesting that VIA rail returns to downtown service using the old Union Station because it just isn't going to happen — too much of a cost for a marginal advantage.

[waterloowarrior]

I have similar feelings about the experimental farm, keep the stuff on the east side of PoW and any important cultural buildings, but develop the rest into a sustainable community or whatever you want to call it

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by harls

Hmm.. sounds familiar, that guy...

Yeah...His name certainly does sound familiar.

[azz]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

I have similar feelings about the experimental farm, keep the stuff on the east side of PoW and any important cultural buildings, but develop the rest into a sustainable community or whatever you want to call it

I think that there is some kind of an agreement between the original family that entrusted the land, and the feds that keeps the feds from selling it commercially. Something along the lines that the descendants would get all proceeds above the price paid (which was $1 or something).

I remember someone telling me this story but I also remember the person was very old...so it might be some deluded ‘Grandpa Simpson” story which then makes the above information moot.

Just a thought.

[Kitchissippi]

Actually the Experimental Farm is a National Historic Site. It is one of the very few aspects of the capital that links it to Western Canada, most specifically the Prairies. It is the origins of Agriculture Canada, for example, Marquis wheat, a frost-resistant and early-maturing strain which helped make the Canadian Prairies one of the world's great grain-producing areas was developed at the Farm. It also played a huge role in developing Canola strains.

I've heard that the farm is a great place to test Canadians concern over genetically modified plants, being in isolation from other large-scale farms. Its function as a research facility is very much alive.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Rathgrith

Whoa, who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?

The cat.

There is no space left for trains to enter downtown and I highly doubt that the NCC and Parks Canada will sell back the land that CP and Grand Trunk used until the 1950s to have trains ride into Union. Its better to work with what we have now and let the Ottawa Train Station (which should be renamed to something more imaginative) serve as an intercity hub, with a link running downtown.

Well since the author was dreaming, it might as well be made a good dream. He was dreaming plenty of other things that are even less likely, like trams lines all over the city.

Besides, from what I have been able to gather, it looks like much of the Transitway along there will be freed up by running the new light rail in a long tunnel. That means that it might be possible to shuffle Nicholas over a bit and put some tracks back in. The problem area would be around the station itself out to the Laurier Street bridge and dealing with Colonel By Drive. I'd have to revisit the area to get a better feel for the elevation changes, but it could still be possible to run Colonel By above the tracks for the last 250 m only, rather than the entire length as the author suggests.

For me, Union should be turned into a transit hub, like Kings Cross in London.

Last time I was at Kings Cross I was there to get on a GNER train heading to the northeast of England... though I probably did arrive by Tube.

There is no what that Via train will be able to run downtown underground. Running diesel trains underground requires ventilation and I doubt that I will see electrician any time soon.

Is that in response to me or the author? It's not me who wants to run trains underground.

Anyway, it's more an idea for HSR in the future. Those trainsets are double-ended (like the O-Train) so the fact of pulling in and "backing out" doesn't matter as much as it would once have done. It's done all the time in Europe, with both electric and diesel powered trains.

[waterloowarrior]

I read the article in detail this afternoon, and I have to say I agree 100% with it and have a similar vision of a future Ottawa. I've seen some brand new neighbourhoods in the Netherlands that mixed good cycling access, tram lines, good density, and well-designed streets, and I had visions of all the possibilities for the experimental farm, especially with the Baseline BRT, O-Train, and Carling LRT all right there I also love the idea of Bank/Montreal subways... a much better use of money than the billions we are spending on new roads (incl. provincial roads)


check out the comments from this citizen article for more people's vision of Ottawa...

http://communities.canada.com/ottawa...22/263660.aspx

this is where the citizen op-ed seems to originate from

[Rathgrith]

Originally Posted by Dado

Is that in response to me or the author? It's not me who wants to run trains underground.

That was directed more towards the author. However, I think the ultimate goal should be to have the eastern edge of the canal by Nicholas opened up to allow for more pedestrian traffic from the U of O and Sandy Hill to connect with the canal.

Hell, if I had my way I would turn everything along the canal from Rideau to Corktown bridge and create Ottawa's version of the River Walk. Just like in San Antonio, TX:

Flickr

[Dado]

Sorry, you're forgetting... the contents of my newly-revised signature.

[highdensitysprawl]

Originally Posted by Dado

Sorry, you're forgetting... the contents of my newly-revised signature.

Good one there Dado...believe me after time spent being in meetings at 110 Laurier when you think you have made progress on a development proposal there is always some harbinger of doom and gloom and process who won't move something along because:

• where is everybody going to park
  we've never done it that way before
  the Councillor won't like it
  we must have 0.687 square metres of landscaped amenity area per 36.87 m2 of passive living space or the whole development won't work

You know the drill....the City Planner was right...Ottawa is the City that fun forgot about at times.

[Rathgrith]

Originally Posted by Dado

Sorry, you're forgetting... the contents of my newly-revised signature.

I know, that's why I said if I had my my way.

Your signature is really true when it took 25 years just to build pedestrian bridge! 25 years!